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Old 05-22-2010, 10:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default No OTA; where in JAD is dl link?

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I've been looking for an alarm app to use instead of the alarm in the scheduler (which is very limited).

I figured out how to get a trial version for ZenAlarm but after all the hoops I went through, what I dl was just a JAD file. Since this seems to happen a lot, I thought I'd ask to figure out how to dl the COD trial file from this, as there must be some way to do this.

Again, reason is because I have no browser package on my BB Pearl 8230 and I don't intend to. I need the Pearl as a phone and I got a really good cell phone pckg since with my provider, it seems to be an either/or proposition. You either get a good cell pckg or a good BB internet-type of pckg (anyway, want to escape my emails, too, as they hound me both at home and at work! <g>).

Here is the content from the ZenMinder multiple alarm app:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Manifest-Version: 1.0
MIDlet-Version: 2.0.2
RIM-COD-URL-6: ZenMinder-6.cod
MIDlet-Jar-Size: 786658
RIM-COD-URL-5: ZenMinder-5.cod
RIM-COD-SHA1-6: a2 61 b1 16 72 91 34 42 d7 be 1e 1a 19 d1 3b 24 60 d0 f8 f9
RIM-COD-URL-4: ZenMinder-4.cod
RIM-COD-SHA1-5: 2e 5e b9 37 60 d6 42 3a 6b df 66 1c b0 ab 45 4f 4a c2 f4 f9
RIM-COD-SHA1-4: 2d e0 ba a9 a9 b3 49 49 0e 7d 63 14 fb 13 2e d5 94 a7 4f 62
RIM-COD-URL-3: ZenMinder-3.cod
RIM-COD-Module-Dependencies: net_rim_cldc,net_rim_bbapi_mailv2,net_rim_bbapi_in voke,net_rim_os,net_rim_bbapi_browser,net_rim_bbap i_messagelist
RIM-COD-Size-6: 63256
RIM-COD-SHA1-3: 56 d3 38 1e aa 37 a9 83 83 c0 0a 1b 24 5d 52 55 e0 58 f1 ae
RIM-COD-URL-2: ZenMinder-2.cod
MicroEdition-Configuration: CLDC-1.1
MIDlet-Jar-URL: ZenMinder.jar
RIM-COD-Size-5: 49860
RIM-COD-SHA1-2: b3 2a da 46 15 49 ea eb 48 ec 9c f7 66 f4 08 82 3e 2a 26 81
RIM-COD-URL-1: ZenMinder-1.cod
RIM-COD-Size-4: 55956
RIM-COD-SHA1-1: 32 9b 44 31 cb b0 49 1a a3 8a 71 fc d3 b7 1f b5 c4 9b 71 0a
RIM-COD-Size-3: 59940
RIM-COD-Size-2: 64160
RIM-MIDlet-Flags-1: 1
RIM-COD-Size-1: 66372
RIM-COD-Module-Name: ZenMinder
RIM-COD-Size: 63812
MIDlet-Name: ZenMinder
RIM-COD-Creation-Time: 1268318064
MIDlet-1: ZenMinder,./zenminder_icon_small.png,
RIM-COD-URL: ZenMinder.cod
MIDlet-Description: Multiple Alarms and Friendly Reminder in a stylish Zen-like applicaton.
RIM-COD-SHA1: 5a e7 8d 03 bb 21 bd 31 e2 25 f0 78 ee 2a b2 ac 64 80 4f cc
MicroEdition-Profile: MIDP-2.0
MIDlet-Vendor: Ademendo Software
-----------------------------------------------------------

Is there any way from the above to deduce where the phone gets the COD files from? I can't see it myself but maybe others here can.

If I could dl the COD files, or the large main one that I can then unzip, then I could try this app out. It may not cost a lot of money, but I've tried so many that are useless, I don't want to waste the cash.

Thx.
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Old 05-22-2010, 11:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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So correct me if i'm wrong. You want to install apps(designed to be installed OTA by developer) on your blackberry for which you have no data package?

Have you considered that the developer of the app doesn't provide a desktop install for a reason? Try contacting the developer and ask for desktop install package.

I understand you are trying to cut costs. However, you bought a Blackberry which is designed to be used with a data package. In this and your other thread, you mention not wanting a data package because emails hound you. Just because you have a data plan, doesn't mean that email automatically comes to the device? That has to setup and controlled by you.

Get a data plan, your life with a Blackberry will be so much easier with not having to engineer a backdoor solution for everything.
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Old 05-22-2010, 11:41 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm sorry, I really do appreciate where you're coming from and I suspect many think like you do but you absolutely must consider that there are other opinions and stances people will take and will, indeed, insist on taking.

I refuse to get a data package. I need _one_ application, that's it. I'm not going to get a data package to find it. I have a computer at home and will have a netbook or laptop at some point, I DON'T need a handheld computer, as well. On my Pearl, the existing alarm feature is not good and I'm looking to replace it because I'm finding that this is a feature I do find very useful. My ancient organizer quit a couple of years back. The Pearl makes a great replacement, if I can just get the features I need.

I've managed to get everything onto the Pearl that I need so far, with the exception of some of these alarm trials which I still can't find, through my computer and a cable. I see no need to change this.

Good point re contacting the developer. I believe I will do that. Surely they make their trials available other than OTA so that we can also virus scan first before doing any installing. My brother's ground to a halt last year because his was taken over by a virus. His provider had to step in to fix it all.

In the meantime, remember that a broader spectrum of needs and requirements are coming on board re handhelds. I also do not install via regular channels on my computer at home. I unpack all executables so that I can see _exactly_ what it is I'm dealing with (re dependencies, etc., etc.). And then I do malware/virus scans before launching. There are many, many more reasons than you have considered in why people do things the way they do. I'm moving over to Linux, as well, with the new netbook/laptop I mean to purchase. Want to have freedom of manual installs in case there are issues there. Whatever, there are many reasons.

However, if anyone else has any insight into how a JAD tells a BB where to go to dl something just by the JAD alone, I'd appreciate it. I don't like mysteries of this kind, either. Similar to web installs or re-directors for the PC. Ugh! I _always_ avoid those and find the app that installs directly! I like to be prepared for what goes on behind-the-scenes. I'll always prefer a manual install in any way, shape or form but good to know how these JADs work. $4.99 might not be much for an app, but it is if it's useless as all these "wonderful" and "fantastic" alarm apps are touted as being that turned out to be pretty lame. $4.99 is way too much money to throw away with no useful value in return. Need to test the apps first.

Cheers and thanks.

Last edited by MitchellBBPearl8230 : 05-22-2010 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 05-22-2010, 12:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Another thing you may not have considered is that developers probably dont provide desktop installations to keep their product from being shared all over the internet without them knowing about it. The OTA method gives them more control. Also, the developer may not take kindly to someone turning their OTA app into a desktop install.

I do understand and appreciate your need/want to control installs though. I wish RIM would broaden their support to other desktop OS's other than Micro$oft and Apple.
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Old 05-22-2010, 02:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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There are ways... if you search, Google will show you the way.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Any app author who offers a trial app is looking for as many people to download the app as possible. Limiting how many people have access to the app is counter to the purpose of offering a free trial. Placing a desktop download for an app on their site takes effort and time. As very, very few Berry owners do not have a data plan, the chances that this will be necessary are very small. Time and resources are more effectively used for developing an ota link instead, especially when solutions like the one below exist.

As far as being able to control your app, that's what pins and registration numbers are for, RIM has the best model for preventing piracy of programs on the planet.

That being said, here is an easy way to download an ota link to your desktop, look for a little program called OTALoader. Paste the ota link into the box and download. The download goes into the same folder that OTALoader resides in. Take the files that are downloaded and put them on your phones memory card in a folder named install. Use the explore menu option in the media app to navigate to the .jad file. Open the .jad file and it will bring up the app download screen.
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Last edited by adperdue : 05-23-2010 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:30 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Ah, it sounded like it might be good but then when I saw the info, needs desktop manager thingie. I'm going Linux one day soon so need a sure-fire way and OTALoader doesn't sound like it.

Well, the alternative is just to ignore anything that I can't find a COD for. I don't get the paranoia here. COD and JAD files don't stop the app from needing to be paid for. It just means that you don't have to go through hoops to install. The files are just transferred via cable to the handheld then you click on the JAD to install. Easy as pie if you can find the app components. You still need PINs and registration, etc. <shaking head uncomprehending paranoia>.

I'm already turning into a dreaded BB junkie re constantly being on it in spare moments -- and that's just monitoring my calls and keeping myself on track using my scheduler! No way do I want to be chaseable by email, too! <g> I escape when I go forth into the world just my BB and me. I have a means to communicate in case of emergency but everyone has to wait till I get home or to the office to reach me via email. Thank god! I get enough of that when I'm not on the road, thank you very much! <g>

But I knew that there had to be some way, somewhere, to dl trials, etc., without using the BB with a browser and without a data plan and without installing something necessarily. All I needed were the BB drivers, which I can live with. That's understandable. But the COD and JAD method work just fine beyond that.

Also, contrary to what is suggested, PINs and registrations don't control the apps. Those are strictly for the developer and nothing wrong with that. I need control from MY end for installing! Unpacking manually as I have done for years on my PC allows me to see the components to be installed and there's often unnecessary junk in them that you know nothing about unless you use a tedious, time-consuming install-watching program or find that you have troubles down the road when you installed malware without realizing it! Pain in the neck and the junk isn't as easy to pinpoint as when you see what's left after an unpacking app. If the application doesn't work as a standalone without installation, it usually doesn't stay on my system. However, 99% of programs work just fine being unpacked simply just like that. A very few need dependencies to be manually registered, so for those stupid Window$ requirements, I have a modifiable script that I click and which registers quickly and easily. Simple. That's the kind of ease of use I'm looking for esp. since Linux is very close down the road (though no doubt I'll run into other dependecy issues there <g>).

I have less problems working this way. And I'd like to have that kind of control with my BB. This doesn't make any difference to the developer. They don't care, ultimately, how you get the app on your system, they just care that you buy it. Fair enough. But I refuse to pay for anything that doesn't do the job. And so far, every single alarm app I've tested has turned out to be a dud in some way or other. I'm currently combining using MyAlarm and the built-in BB alarm feature. Meh ... 'saright, but not quite good enough.

It would be foolish for BB to limit themselves in this way, I don't care what rationale is put forth about how big or small the percentage of data-plan-less people we're talking about here. The niche is there, nonetheless. In today's climate, companies would be stupid to ignore sources of revenue no matter how small they might think they are, not and hope to survive. By all means, don't devote the bulk of your resources to linking with smaller markets, _that_ would also be foolish. But don't ignore them.

Well, I'll keep looking. There doesn't seem to be an answer but, then, I often think outside the box to solve problems.

Reminds of the BB guy at the store when I told him how I had ghosting of filenames. Oh, he says, no way to fix that. He insisted on that and that I had to install "his" way or the established way (what did one have to do with the other??). Bull! I kept looking myself and found the answer. A simple battery pull fixed that problem!

And the other of many stupid situations I've had ... early on I asked about the problem with the double letters/numbers on the keypad and how I needed to have the same quick password input method of my old phone. This other guy also basically said I had to suck it up and live with it. Excuse me and bullsh**. I ultimately chose a password that used letters involving first key press and single digit keys and I got a fast key sequence again. D'oh.

And there were many others situations like that. So forgive me if I don't take no for an answer easily. If I stopped trying to find a solution every time someone told me no or it can't be done, I wouldn't be where I am today. <g>

Thanks everyone. I do appreciate the help, nonetheless.

Last edited by MitchellBBPearl8230 : 05-26-2010 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 05-26-2010, 07:21 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I don't think you quite understand. I use linux, otaloader works just fine under linux with wine, and does not install. I mistakenly said it does. It runs as a stand alone app.

The jad file you download shows the hand held where the cod files are. Otaloader will download the cod files for you to peruse and then transfer to your device. It mimics the blackberrys browser and grabs all the necessary files to install.

How you get the files to your device has nothing to do with pins or the author controlling the app. Pin registration is just for making sure you pay for the app, unless there is no pin based registration built into the app then you must pay before hand.

If you break RIMs security or the security of apps by reverse engineering or breaking into them to make sure there is no malware, you hurt the rest of us who rely on companies we trust to be secure. Breaking into the code of an app in this market does not spur innovation or "joy joy" feelings in developers. You may appease yourself, but if downloaded from trusted sources, there is no worry of malware. Please be careful in how you inspect code making its way on your system.

If you still need more control, then a blackberry is not right for you. An android device may be a better fit.
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Last edited by adperdue : 05-26-2010 at 07:22 AM.
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