BB 8830 and VZ Navigator is unreal!

[chascent]

Just updated my BB 8830 with the VZ navagator. Called Verizon to activate and I was up and running in minutes. I have to admit I am totally shocked on how good this is! I have a Nuvi 660 that cost me over 600 dollars and this is just as good. Voice activated turns with street names. Accurate to within 50 feet. Redraw is amazing and never lags. Has all the same features as the Nuvi like looking up restaurants, gas stations etc.

All and all I have to say that if you have a BB 8830 and do alot of traveling like I do this is a must get.

Charlie C

[rpvitale]

Have you ever seen Telenav? It makes VZVav look like a toy.

[chascent]

Yes I have seen Telnav. Don't you have to hook up an external puck to pick up the satellites? VZ uses the wireless technology and picks up the gps satellites even in your home.

Charlie C

[penguin3107]

Don't you have to hook up an external puck to pick up the satellites?

To use Telenav and other GPS applications on the Verizon 8830 (and 8130) you would need an external puck because Verizon choose to cripple the internal GPS in both of those devices and lock the usage exclusively to VZnavigator.

For all other devices with built-in GPS, you wouldn't need an external puck for Telenav.

VZ uses the wireless technology and picks up the gps satellites even in your home.

Verizon isn't doing anything revolutionary or different here with 8830. It's exactly the same as any other autonomous GPS receiver. It's neither better nor worse than using a puck.

[jsntrenkler]

Just updated my BB 8830 with the VZ navagator. Called Verizon to activate and I was up and running in minutes. I have to admit I am totally shocked on how good this is! I have a Nuvi 660 that cost me over 600 dollars and this is just as good. Voice activated turns with street names. Accurate to within 50 feet. Redraw is amazing and never lags. Has all the same features as the Nuvi like looking up restaurants, gas stations etc.

All and all I have to say that if you have a BB 8830 and do alot of traveling like I do this is a must get.

Charlie C

I really enjoy VZNav as well ... To me it is worth the $10 a month, heck with the $30 BB Data plan, + VZ Nav .. I am still saving $5 a month over what I was paying before @<hidden> $45 a month.

[Firefishe2]

Just updated my BB 8830 with the VZ navagator. Called Verizon to activate and I was up and running in minutes. I have to admit I am totally shocked on how good this is! I have a Nuvi 660 that cost me over 600 dollars and this is just as good. Voice activated turns with street names. Accurate to within 50 feet. Redraw is amazing and never lags. Has all the same features as the Nuvi like looking up restaurants, gas stations etc.

All and all I have to say that if you have a BB 8830 and do alot of traveling like I do this is a must get.

Charlie C

Hello Charlie C. I am glad that you're experience with VZ Navigator on your 8830 with Verizon is working out for you.

My experience, though, has been less than pleasing. My reply will focus exclusively on my experiences with and the operational characteristics of VZ Navigator on my BB 8830 WE on Verizon Wireless's network.

Where Am I

First of all, when I select "Where Am I" from the Maps menu, I am constantly positioned in the wrong place. If I am patient, I can get an accurate measurement some of the time. My first attempts involved over twenty (20) "Where Am I" selections, my using the Escape key to get back to the menu listing and doing it over and over again.

My initial results using "Where Am I" to plot my current position resulted in about four or five accurate readings--two of which were dead-on, though not at the same time--while the rest put me constantly three to five miles distant from my current location.

Now there was something telltale that may or may not shed light on just what VZ Navigator is doing to get it's initial fix. I'll detail my surmise on that in a moment. What I observed throughout my initial first trial was that the incorrect locations came up more than once in the same place, or very near the same place. Mistakes on first-fix in the same or nearly the same location? Near the same streets?

My thoughts on this is that this is near the cell tower sites and it is occurring due to tower triangulation via the Assisted GPS system. I was told that VZ Navigator downloads the mapping and augmented (corrected?) GPS data from whatever third-party provider with whom VZW is working, and the conglomerate is then dispatched to the handheld and displayed on VZ Navigator's screen.

Follow Me Map

This tool was the most useful feature for me to see and diagnose just how VZ Navigator was behaving on my 8830. Well, it works. Just adequately, though. It works because the map in this mode auto refreshes when the somewhat large cross-hatch indicator showing your position goes off the screen during Initial Time to First Fix (ITFF) when in this mapping mode.

I experienced the initial screen error I received most of the time when using the "Where Am I" feature discussed earlier. Then, when it was obvious that the map area in view was not the correct location, the screen refreshed, the cross-hatch icon jumped, moved, or otherwise was not visible, and the screen refreshed again.

When I finally recognized my street and road shapes, the cross-hatch icon had calmed down a bit. It moved slowly southeast, right along the edge of my road, then, when the cross-hatch center moved to the screen edge, it refreshed, and finally showed my true position, after moving a little as the GPS system balanced out.

I finally had my position. So what to do now but to plan a route. I selected a general search for a gas station 2.5 miles up the road, a place I know well. I know it well because I spent many the last couple of days on the phone with VZW Data Tech Support regarding this very issue...but that's another story ;-).

Continuing, I selected this gas station when it came up (I'm thankful that the gas station POI database is fairly current for my area) and sought to navigate to it. Well, this is where VZ Navigator, for me, is a bust! The program did finally navigate, but not after getting the location wrong again, this time three times!

I was finally able to get the navigation feature--selected from the "Follow Me Map" mode--to get my location wrong just once, and then show the correct starting point. I suppose if I had started moving at that point in my car, I would have been able to see how it handled re-routes and the like.

CONCLUSION: VZ Navigator does not store the location, but rather recalculates a new position each time a mode change occurs!

This happens when one switches from "Where Am I" to "Follow Me Map" as well as when switching to navigation mode to a point of interest from "Follow Me Map!" Not very useful at all.

The fact is, VZ Navigator always seems to be doing an ITFF sequence, regardless of what mode is selected. When you make a change of mode, you have to get your position all over again. These are, to me, serious design flaws with this software, flaws that I would hope would have been addressed by it's designers; people who, I suspect, are not particularly designers of GPS software in general or by specialty.

Here is an example of normal GPS activity: Turn unit on, wait for GPS to get or update GPS Almanac from satellites (if necessary), consult almanac for GPS satellite positions, wait for needed satellite signals for first fix, consult almanac to see where we were last time (if applicable), apply new signals, when ready, to current device state, display location icon on screen with proper mapping area (on mapping units) in view. Read location on map screen!

The above is just a rough guide, and is not meant to be all-encompassing. My sequences may be off slightly, but that's the general gist of how a normal, handheld GPS Receiver gets it's information and displays in on it's screen. I am using my Garmin GPSmap 76CSx with a SiRF Star III chipset in it as a reference.

I do not find VZ Navigator particularly useful when it behaves like this. I was told that VZ Navigator also does not work in Extended Coverage Areas, of which I am on the fringe of one such area. Why would this not work if said 8830 is supposed to have an active GPS when using VZ Navigator? Simply because of the network involvement.

GPS data is filtered through VZW's mapping data partner, which takes a reading from the internal GPS chip--perhaps once each time, which would explain much between mode changes--downloads it from the handheld, then re-sends the information with the mapping data back to the handheld.

If VZ Navigator is not even using the full autonomous capabilities of the Qualcomm gpsOne integrated GPS chipset in this handheld for its own software, then further imposing technological restrictions by limiting the GPS data for use on its own network towers only, then how can anyone truly be expected to pay for this service?

These are my thoughts.

Warm regards,
Stephen A. Brown

[griff2ooo]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Is the only way to get vznav to download via the support site? My IT policy will not allow me to download third party apps so if they have wrapped this into a OS release it would be nice.

[penguin3107]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Is the only way to get vznav to download via the support site? My IT policy will not allow me to download third party apps so if they have wrapped this into a OS release it would be nice.

Even if it was included with an OS (which it is not) it would still be considered a third-party application and your IT Policy would not permit its installation or use.

[akosnitzky]

Wirelessly posted (Verizon 8830: BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Charlie,
Thank you for sharing. Maybe I will take the plunge sooner than expected. :-)

[Grimlin]

...and picks up the gps satellites even in your home.

If your home is big enough to get lost in, can't you just pay someone to read a map for you?

I never have been able to justify VZWs marketing angle on that one. I had a nice little argument with our reps on why they chose to cripple a working free GPS solution and replace it with their "pay to play" version. I don't mind having the VZNavigator for those who want to pay for it, but to force people to use it? It urks me to know that there is a GPS receiver in the 8830 just sitting there dormant.

[JRSCCivic98]

Just updated my BB 8830 with the VZ navagator. Called Verizon to activate and I was up and running in minutes. I have to admit I am totally shocked on how good this is! I have a Nuvi 660 that cost me over 600 dollars and this is just as good. Voice activated turns with street names. Accurate to within 50 feet. Redraw is amazing and never lags. Has all the same features as the Nuvi like looking up restaurants, gas stations etc.

All and all I have to say that if you have a BB 8830 and do alot of traveling like I do this is a must get.

Charlie C

Dude sounds like a VZW PR guy or something. You make me laugh dude!!! Give it up! :lol:

[kirwoodd]

Dude sounds like a VZW PR guy or something. You make me laugh dude!!! Give it up! :lol:

really?
Well I dont work for VZW, but I like vznav. Is it the best? Dunno, I have never used the competitors on a BB. I have a Garmin 276c in my truck and two Northstar's in my boat. Does vznav compare to them? Apples and oranges. In my opinion its perfect for what it is.

I was at a party the other night and they were looking for the number for Soho Pizza in Albany. I had the number from vznav faster than they did from 411. I was inside and vznav knew where I was, and when I did a search for "pizza" Soho was on page two (I should have done "soho" :) )I would call that "working fine". Would I navigate my boat with it? No. Would I use it in my truck? No. Would I use it while walking in San Fran, lost, looking for a restaraunt? Fer sure.

[falqon]

I can find Pizza with a non anal retentive carrier (sprint) and google maps for free. That's what $100 a year to spend elsewhere, I'll take it.

It's not that Verizon Nav is that bad or anything, it's just the way that Verizon is shoving it down people's throats that people are resenting. People should have choices and the telco's absolutely suck when it comes to this.

[kirwoodd]

I can find Pizza with a non anal retentive carrier (sprint) and google maps for free. That's what $100 a year to spend elsewhere, I'll take it.

It's not that Verizon Nav is that bad or anything, it's just the way that Verizon is shoving it down people's throats that people are resenting. People should have choices and the telco's absolutely suck when it comes to this.

Yup, and I agree, it sux to have to pay for it.
but the OP said that he likes vznav and that it works for him, that doesn't make him a troll or a plant.
All I am saying is:
1) I totally agree that it should be free
2) I also agree that it works pretty well.
3) I wouldn't use it to replace the GPS in my truck.

But hey, thats just me.

If people are so pissed off, then go to another carrier. I am willing to pay $10/month, if enough people aren't, and they leave, maybe it will make a difference to the bottom line. I don't think that people paying the $10/month is ruining it for other users, I don't think that its wrong to pay it, I don't think that verizon is susceptible to a lawsuit (IANAL), I think that they are dicks for charging.

I don't need to free Tibet, I need to free my data, but in the meantime, I'll pay.

[JRSCCivic98]

, but in the meantime, I'll pay.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, and that's exactly why VZW keeps doing this. Because people like you "pay". :hammeronhead:

[Dawg]

Blah, blah, blah, blah, and that's exactly why VZW keeps doing this. Because people like you "pay". :hammeronhead:

get over yourself! just STHU already about it. why flame a guy because he likes something you dont. I liked vznavigator on my lg8600 and I didnt mind paying for it either.


Yup, and I agree, it sux to have to pay for it.
but the OP said that he likes vznav and that it works for him, that doesn't make him a troll or a plant.
All I am saying is:
1) I totally agree that it should be free
2) I also agree that it works pretty well.
3) I wouldn't use it to replace the GPS in my truck.

But hey, thats just me.

If people are so pissed off, then go to another carrier. I am willing to pay $10/month, if enough people aren't, and they leave, maybe it will make a difference to the bottom line. I don't think that people paying the $10/month is ruining it for other users, I don't think that its wrong to pay it, I don't think that verizon is susceptible to a lawsuit (IANAL), I think that they are dicks for charging.

I don't need to free Tibet, I need to free my data, but in the meantime, I'll pay.

I have been saying the same thing but the troll wont stop

[chascent]

I am far from a PR guy from Verizon. I am merely sharing my experience with something that I think works great. I also agree that its not right to disable the GPS in the phone itself but I have to say that VZ Navigator works perfectly. Just used it again this morning and it was perfect. I have planned several trips and it has been dead on. For those of you that have the BB 8830 give it a shot for 1 month. I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised.

[JRSCCivic98]

For those of you that have the BB 8830 give it a shot for 1 month. I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised.

It's not about being pleasantly surprised. VZNav does nothing that anything else cannot do. I'm sure I wouldn't have a problem with adding the service if ALL other carriers of the 88xx series phones did the same thing. But history has tought me differently about Verizon. So until they change their ways I'll be GPSin' fo FREE via my own means and I suggest anyone else interested in driving change to do the same. Problem here is consumers are blinded lemmings who'd rather pay. I can understand paying more for better coverage/service (that's the boat I'm in), but paying for services that are blatantly taxed for no reason is just foolish.

[Demon]

It's not about being pleasantly surprised. VZNav does nothing that anything else cannot do. I'm sure I wouldn't have a problem with adding the service if ALL other carriers of the 88xx series phones did the same thing. But history has tought me differently about Verizon. So until they change their ways I'll be GPSin' fo FREE via my own means and I suggest anyone else interested in driving change to do the same. Problem here is consumers are blinded lemmings who'd rather pay. I can understand paying more for better coverage/service (that's the boat I'm in), but paying for services that are blatantly taxed for no reason is just foolish.

While I see your point, it is a matter of convenience really. If something works to the maximum functionality that they will ever use it for, why use something else, especially when no other devices are needed to use the service. For people that are looking for more than VZ nav offers I find it completely reasonable that they seek alternative gps methods, however, for the vast majority of users the program fits the needs of the consumer.

Bottom line, if you don't like it, don't pay for it. If something works better, use it. If you don't like the carrier...switch. People make this out to be some huge conspiracy, yet they still pay. If they are so enraged by this why do they continue service?


EDIT: I thought of something a coworker was venting to me today. He kept complaining about ATM fees going up when you use a different banks ATM. He was completely upset about this. My response "You have three choices really. You can pay the charge, you can bank with them and it is free, or you can go another couple blocks to your banks ATM." The point is that the American consumer is all about convenience.

[Dawg]

While I see your point, it is a matter of convenience really. If something works to the maximum functionality that they will ever use it for, why use something else, especially when no other devices are needed to use the service. For people that are looking for more than VZ nav offers I find it completely reasonable that they seek alternative gps methods, however, for the vast majority of users the program fits the needs of the consumer.

Bottom line, if you don't like it, don't pay for it. If something works better, use it. If you don't like the carrier...switch. People make this out to be some huge conspiracy, yet they still pay. If they are so enraged by this why do they continue service?


EDIT: I thought of something a coworker was venting to me today. He kept complaining about ATM fees going up when you use a different banks ATM. He was completely upset about this. My response "You have three choices really. You can pay the charge, you can bank with them and it is free, or you can go another couple blocks to your banks ATM." The point is that the American consumer is all about convenience.

Demon you are wasting your breath on this one. He wont listen he will continue to complain no matter what.

I am with you if you dont like it vote with your dollar. He would rather bash those of us who are satisfied with the service we use, I think the term lemmings was used. For some its easier to insult happy people when you are so miserable in your own life.

[kirwoodd]

I like vznav so much, that I am going to pay $20 a month.
</troll_bait>

[trent1881]

Someone will eventually figure out how to un-criple the GPS in the 8830, if that is actually a word, and then everyone will be happy (y)

[Mortgage_It]

I would find VZNav more useful if it included real time traffic updates. I experimented with it over the holiday on a trip to Virginia. I found the screen on my 8830 to be too small for use with a Nav system (it was suction cupped to my windshield) I also sat in traffic on rt95 for 2 hours - it would have been helpful to have the system warn and re-route me. The system also crashed several times and said I had to exit and restart, mostly when using the follow me function. GPS is cool but GPS with traffic updating is great and way more useful IMHO.

[Maronius]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8130/4.3.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

A Verizon rep told me that their vendor is working on including real time traffic on VZ Navigator. No Eta.

[JRSCCivic98]

EDIT: I thought of something a coworker was venting to me today. He kept complaining about ATM fees going up when you use a different banks ATM. He was completely upset about this. My response "You have three choices really. You can pay the charge, you can bank with them and it is free, or you can go another couple blocks to your banks ATM."

I'm afraid I'll have to agree with him on this one. Here's why and this leads directly on why I have a problem with VZW's BB GPS issues. It's not about not liking a product, it's about giving more money to a company that does not need/deserve it because the product it just a surreptitious way for that company to make more money to unknowing public individuals. In the bank's example it does not cost the banks anything to do fund transfers for you when you choose to pull money from one bank instead of another. Everything is done electronically and automatically in today's world and "actual" funds don't actually go from one bank vault to another to be provided for you at the other bank's ATM. In other words, no one has to be paid to take your $20 from your bank's vault and drive it to bank B's vault so you can withdraw it, so the $2 or $3 charge for this transfer is just another way for them to make money from you on something that you don't know any better about. That's my point here. Companies do things like this all the time to cheat the customer and give them an upper hand advantage and in this country the power has changed form the people to the large businesses that are corrupted by government and greed. The information needs to be put back into the consumer's hand along with the power. Making these small "vote with your dollar" changes won't change anything because it's not on a grand scale. Ever notice how you pay thousands upon thousands of dollars for insurance each year, but if you actually need some of that money back for a claim the insurance company bocks at you and if forced to give it to you they just raise the rates after that to get even more money from you? Did you know that the "idea and pricipal" behind insurance at one time was the same as social security. It was designed to be a kind of "savings" account for individuals to put money into so that in case of a rainy day you'd have something to go to. As time passed greed stepped in and the design of said ideas changed. They changed into one of "hey, we'll cover you for more if you pay us more". They when people didn't want to pay the higher prices legislation was passed making it a law that you had to pay to have these services. Anyone remember when it wasn't against the law to not have car insurance.... yeah. Don't kid yourselves guys/gals, it's all about the money in the end and not the consumer, yet no one wants to open their eyes a little and help change that, but you'll all sit there and complain when your taxes go up or when healthcase doesn't work. Why do you think it doesn't work? It's because of you... the consumer, not the government or the companies. It's a direct result of you. The consumer has let loose of the control and this is what happens.

Anyway, now that we're way off thread topic... maybe the thread title should be changed to reflect that the OP thinks that VZNav is unreal to "him".

[Demon]

Sounds like your issue is not with VZ Nav or Verizon at all, but more with the way the entire capitalist economy is run.

[Demon]

Anyway, now that we're way off thread topic... maybe the thread title should be changed to reflect that the OP thinks that VZNav is unreal to "him".

Seeing as this thread is entirely his personal opinion anyway, it is automatically implied that it is unreal to "him".

[JRSCCivic98]

Sounds like your issue is not with VZ Nav or Verizon at all, but more with the way the entire capitalist economy is run.

Not really, I don't mind capitalism, but there's a limit as to how much you can nickle and dime someone before it's "ethically" wrong. Too bad capitalism is not built on ethics or morals. :shock:

[Dawg]

Not really, I don't mind capitalism, but there's a limit as to how much you can nickle and dime someone before it's "ethically" wrong. Too bad capitalism is not built on ethics or morals. :shock:

But thats your opinion and when is to much too much? to you it may be one thing to some one else its another dollar amount.

[JRSCCivic98]

I said ethically, not dollar amount, but you spoke as a "true capitalist". Remember this, setting ethics aside a "true capitalist" dictates what's fair for everyone else based on "thier own" personal gain.

[Dawg]

I said ethically, not dollar amount, but you spoke as a "true capitalist". Remember this, setting ethics aside a "true capitalist" dictates what's fair for everyone else based on "thier own" personal gain.

And I want the most money I can get out of my product. When I build a house for someone I nickle and dime them till I have ever penny I can squeze out of them. I build 250 to 300 homes a year and I have happy content home owners and I got every penny I wanted.

[JRSCCivic98]

And I want the most money I can get out of my product. When I build a house for someone I nickle and dime them till I have ever penny I can squeze out of them. I build 250 to 300 homes a year and I have happy content home owners and I got every penny I wanted.

With getting nickle and dimed. I'm just wondering, once you're done with that, do you turn around a build the cheapest house "you" can build or do you actually build what the money pays for. The point is, if I'm paying for a Mercedes, I better not get a VW when it's all said and done. That's the difference.

[Dawg]

No I build exactly what they ask for. Ok I bought a BB from Verizon I read everything about it I got what i paid for end of discussion.,