PDA

View Full Version : Edge vs 3G


Baldie
02-16-2008, 12:11 AM
Which has better service and which carrier has what?

Soapm
02-16-2008, 12:18 AM
EDGE... TMO... 3G isn't out yet so EDGE is the best for now.

Baldie
02-16-2008, 12:32 AM
Is Edge on all carriers? I was told 3G was on ATT currently.

Sith_Apprentice
02-16-2008, 12:33 AM
ATT has 3g in some areas, depending on who you ask, EVDO is 3g on the CDMA side. Tmobile doesnt have 3g in this country. Both Tmo and ATT have EDGE. The networks are layered. GSM/GPRS/EDGE/3G for ATT, same for TMO (minus 3G)

Baldie
02-16-2008, 12:40 AM
So since sprint is on CDMA, I have EVDO?

Sith_Apprentice
02-16-2008, 12:44 AM
yes, thats their high speed network

ricpac
02-16-2008, 01:42 AM
EDGE is like 2.5G; 3G is for what is and faster than EDGE

CybaCowboy
02-16-2008, 07:25 AM
Wirelessly posted (RIM BlackBerry 8300 Curve: BlackBerry8300/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/122)

You should move to Australia - our main service provider (Telstra) currently offers 3.5G/UMTS/WCDMA with HSDPA data speeds on their "NextG" network up to 14.4MB/s, with plans to increase this to 21MB/s by the end of the year!

To put this into perspective for you, 14.4MB/s is the same speed as what ADSL 2 can theoretically reach here, and 21MB/s is slightly faster than what cable is in most areas (Sydney & Melbourne can reach slightly faster cable speeds)...

Now all we need is a BlackBerry device that can reach these speeds, or at least something faster than EDGE!

ricpac
02-16-2008, 07:41 AM
that makes me soo jealous

CybaCowboy
02-16-2008, 07:53 AM
Wirelessly posted (RIM BlackBerry 8300 Curve: BlackBerry8300/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/122)

Telstra even won a world record in the Ginesis (yes I know it's spelt wrong...) book of world records recently, for having the world's fastest mobile phone network!

I don't think it's been published yet, but I would imagine that there would be something on the Ginesis site...

NJBlackBerry
02-16-2008, 08:09 AM
Just wondering how will this make my phone, texting and e-mail any faster, more efficient or more secure?

</sarcasm>

tgeekb
02-16-2008, 08:35 AM
Just wondering how will this make my phone, texting and e-mail any faster, more efficient or more secure?

</sarcasm>

Good point (sarcasm noted!). Unless you tether, I'm not sure there are a lot of advantages. My email comes instantly, texts close to instant, my battery life is great, and the web pages I visit download within seconds. I'm not saying there aren't some specific, individualized tasks that could benefit from 3g, just that most people think it can provide more than it can.

NJBlackBerry
02-16-2008, 08:42 AM
It's basically for consumer items like streaming video, Youtube, etc. I went to a demo years ago where Sony showed a 3G two way video between phones in Tokyo. Interesting, but basically useless :-)

It will be cool when it is here, but I'm not waiting for it!

Walt
02-16-2008, 09:24 AM
I'm sorry but how can you say EDGE is best for now? I have Sprint and the EVDO network runs circles around EDGE. My son-in-law has a AT&T Curve and it's painfully slow accessing web sites. My Pearl2 is much, much faster. I believe Verizon also uses the EVDO network.


EDGE... TMO... 3G isn't out yet so EDGE is the best for now.

Baldie
02-16-2008, 09:36 AM
I also think EVDO is a bit faster. My sister just got a blackjack yesterday w/ATT and she was told she would be on 3G. I was websurfing on it yesterday and I'm sorry I think my pearl on sprint is alot faster.

quick question.....I have the 8130...is that a Pearl 2? Need clarification on what the Pearl 2 is.

Dubdub
02-16-2008, 09:54 AM
You will probably see more difference when you tether and perhaps when surfing as more and more websites become optimized for mobile users. Email, SMS, etc won't show any difference I think. Or at least none that you will notice anyway.

Battery life will most likely decline when using 3g, but you will be able to use voice and data at the same time, i.e. send and receive email while using the phone.

tgeekb
02-16-2008, 12:02 PM
The homepage on my ATT EDGE Pearl and 8800 is NYT and it loads within 4-5 seconds. There is no situation, in my personal experience, where I need it to load faster with a resulting decline in battery life. That is just my opinion, I'm not saying that 3G may not load it faster. I think the point is that not many people (the average consumer, not necessarily people on here) need 3G for what they do with their cells or even smartphones. That's why Blackberry is slow to integrate it, it won't effect email which is their strong point.

Soapm
02-16-2008, 12:14 PM
I'm sorry but how can you say EDGE is best for now? I have Sprint and the EVDO network runs circles around EDGE. My son-in-law has a AT&T Curve and it's painfully slow accessing web sites. My Pearl2 is much, much faster. I believe Verizon also uses the EVDO network.

That's why I noted TMO is my carrier. I've never used EVDO so can't vouch for it.

I will also say when teathering on EDGE my computer runs slower than dial up. If EVDO is similar then it's really a non issue, it works ok on the device but nothing to argue about.

Sith_Apprentice
02-16-2008, 12:16 PM
EDGE avg speed - 200-400kbps
EVDO rev0 avg speed - 400-700kbps

Dubdub
02-16-2008, 01:46 PM
EDGE avg speed - 200-400kbps
EVDO rev0 avg speed - 400-700kbps

EDGE average speed is 50-125 kbps, generally, the max is about 300 kbps since most towers are modified. The absolute max is 384 kbps, AFAIK.

You are correct on EVDO, max Rev 0 is 1.2 mbps and Rev A is about 2.4 mbps, I think.

Sith_Apprentice
02-16-2008, 01:48 PM
EDGE average speed is 50-125 kbps, generally, the max is about 300 kbps since most towers are modified. The absolute max is 384 kbps, AFAIK.

You are correct on EVDO, max Rev 0 is 1.2 mbps and Rev A is about 2.4 mbps, I think.

i have gotten over 400 kbps on EDGE tethering. 200-400 is the average speeds (according to the network information i have). Granted over 400 is downhill, with the wind at your back. rev0 maxes at about 1.5, revA is just about 2.4 like you said.

tsac
02-16-2008, 03:08 PM
[QUOTE=CybaCowboy;837575]Wirelessly posted (RIM BlackBerry 8300 Curve: BlackBerry8300/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/122)

You should move to Australia - our main service provider


Ok but who pays the air fare. And what about those Kangaroos, do they have BB's also.:razz: .

Dubdub
02-16-2008, 03:20 PM
i have gotten over 400 kbps on EDGE tethering. 200-400 is the average speeds (according to the network information i have). Granted over 400 is downhill, with the wind at your back. rev0 maxes at about 1.5, revA is just about 2.4 like you said.

I really question the 400 reading. Everything I have read and heard says absolute max is 384. Close to 400, but not quite. I don't think many of the speed tests are not very reliable for cells either, especially if a proxy server is involved.

Sith_Apprentice
02-16-2008, 03:29 PM
I really question the 400 reading. Everything I have read and heard says absolute max is 384. Close to 400, but not quite. I don't think many of the speed tests are not very reliable for cells either, especially if a proxy server is involved.

this was a tethered speed test at speakeasy.net. Theoretical max is over 473kbps from all the numbers i have seen from AT&T. Not sure if this was just an error on the speedtest side or not.

CybaCowboy
02-16-2008, 05:40 PM
Good point (sarcasm noted!). Unless you tether, I'm not sure there are a lot of advantages. My email comes instantly, texts close to instant, my battery life is great, and the web pages I visit download within seconds. I'm not saying there aren't some specific, individualized tasks that could benefit from 3g, just that most people think it can provide more than it can.

Web browsing will be notcibly faster on 3G/3.5G/UMTS/WCDMA/WCDMA with HSDPA, but you won't notice much difference with anything else unless you're "tethered" to a computer - interestingly, e-mail may actually be (slightly) slower though, due to technical reasons (they say the fact that it's gotta re-assemble the data packets at your end could slow things down)!

Another big use for 3G/3.5G/UMTS/WCDMA/WCDMA with HSDPA over here is video-calling (like in the movies), digital music (like the iTunes Music Store, on your phone) and other multimedia (eg. mobile TV, etc...), though as you pointed out, you will take quite a big hit on usage times by making the switch to the newer technologies.


I really question the 400 reading. Everything I have read and heard says absolute max is 384. Close to 400, but not quite. I don't think many of the speed tests are not very reliable for cells either, especially if a proxy server is involved.

384KB/s is the maximum not 400KB/s, though keep in mind that this is the "theoretical" maximum speed supported by EDGE... It's unlikely you'll ever get these speeds in practice though.

I didn't read through it, but Wikipedia seems to have quite a good little article on EDGE...
Enhanced Data Rates for GSM Evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution)


[QUOTE=CybaCowboy;837575]Wirelessly posted (RIM BlackBerry 8300 Curve: BlackBerry8300/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/122)

You should move to Australia - our main service provider


And what about those Kangaroos, do they have BB's also.:razz: .

Absolutely!

Didn't you ever watch "Behind the scenes with Skippy?" You would've seen Skippy on his BlackBerry during the breaks!

lol

Soapm
02-16-2008, 07:59 PM
i have gotten over 400 kbps on EDGE tethering. 200-400 is the average speeds (according to the network information i have). Granted over 400 is downhill, with the wind at your back. rev0 maxes at about 1.5, revA is just about 2.4 like you said.

Maybe that's my problem, i've been facing the PC into the wind.

tsac][/B]Ok but who pays the air fare. And what about those Kangaroos, do they have BB's also.:razz: .

I'm sure every good Kangaroo has at least one in their pouch... (y)

southwestcomm
02-16-2008, 08:07 PM
tether, smether....the device and processor won't be able to handle that speed.

The only way to take advantage of these future speeds is with a modem or card. BB's and other phones won't experience the benefits. Battery life will suffer as well.

Good point (sarcasm noted!). Unless you tether, I'm not sure there are a lot of advantages. My email comes instantly, texts close to instant, my battery life is great, and the web pages I visit download within seconds. I'm not saying there aren't some specific, individualized tasks that could benefit from 3g, just that most people think it can provide more than it can.

tgeekb
02-16-2008, 09:02 PM
tether, smether....the device and processor won't be able to handle that speed.

The only way to take advantage of these future speeds is with a modem or card. BB's and other phones won't experience the benefits. Battery life will suffer as well.

Battery life and processors will improve. Whether they will improve enough to handle the future technology is yet to be seen.

That is why Blackberry is what it is, and it does it well.

Sith_Apprentice
02-16-2008, 09:13 PM
Battery life and processors will improve. Whether they will improve enough to handle the future technology is yet to be seen.

That is why Blackberry is what it is, and it does it well.

500mhz processor running 98se can get a speed test of over 15mbps on a good connection with no issues. processor isnt necessarily the bottleneck. *fast* PDAs have processors in the 600mhz and higher range. its when you start loading graphics and video that the processor gets crushed

CybaCowboy
02-17-2008, 01:42 AM
Wirelessly posted (RIM BlackBerry 8300 Curve: BlackBerry8300/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/122)

tether, smether....the device and processor won't be able to handle that speed.

The only way to take advantage of these future speeds is with a modem or card. BB's and other phones won't experience the benefits. Battery life will suffer as well.

Good point (sarcasm noted!). Unless you tether, I'm not sure there are a lot of advantages. My email comes instantly, texts close to instant, my battery life is great, and the web pages I visit download within seconds. I'm not saying there aren't some specific, individualized tasks that could benefit from 3g, just that most people think it can provide more than it can.

Whilst this is mostly true, there ARE exceptions...

Most of the newer Microsoft Windows Mobile devices from HTC and Palm can benefit from the faster speeds, though they usually struggle to achieve anything faster than about 1.5MB/s - it's the exact same problem you would have if you were asking the Internet via a high-speed Wi-Fi connection.

Certain other handsets (particularly those from Samsung) also support the faster 3.5G/UMTS/WCDMA with HSDPA data speeds, though as I understand it, they also struggle to achieve anything higher than about 1.5MB/s (apparently they are a small improvement though)...

SpeedFreak
02-17-2008, 01:58 AM
That's why I noted TMO is my carrier. I've never used EVDO so can't vouch for it.

I will also say when teathering on EDGE my computer runs slower than dial up. If EVDO is similar then it's really a non issue, it works ok on the device but nothing to argue about.

Verzion EVDO is 3G. I spent some type evaluating the iPhone from AT&T and the BB from Verizon. The iPhone is a much better multimedia/surfing device then the BB but the EDGE network speed doesn't measure up and the iPhone is still too buggy. If they work out the kinks and release a more solid iPhone I'm sorry to say I will be tempted to switch.

Dubdub
02-17-2008, 08:33 AM
500mhz processor running 98se can get a speed test of over 15mbps on a good connection with no issues. processor isnt necessarily the bottleneck. *fast* PDAs have processors in the 600mhz and higher range. its when you start loading graphics and video that the processor gets crushed

15 mbps huh? I think you mean 1.5 mbps?

Soapm
02-17-2008, 01:32 PM
Verzion EVDO is 3G. I spent some type evaluating the iPhone from AT&T and the BB from Verizon. The iPhone is a much better multimedia/surfing device then the BB but the EDGE network speed doesn't measure up and the iPhone is still too buggy. If they work out the kinks and release a more solid iPhone I'm sorry to say I will be tempted to switch.

A guy at the job has a new model iPhone and says all the bugs are fixed. I like the touch screen except when it comes to typing. I like the screen orients itself to how you view it. You are right, it is tempting.

How does the iPhone get email and does it sync contacts, calander etc...?

BBbuddy
02-19-2008, 06:01 PM
Ok, don't laugh guys... Until now I only have the possibility to compare gprs and edge.

In germany only T-mobile offers nationwide edge -vodafone in region where they don't give you 3g. In past under Vodafone i didn't see a great acceleration with edge, ok it was a bit but not worth mentioning.

The next step is 3G and with the the idea of RIM to keep every data as small as possible in the mobile-net what advantage 3G and the coming stuff give you on a blackberry?

maxsquared
02-19-2008, 06:08 PM
Wirelessly posted (RIM BlackBerry 8300 Curve: BlackBerry8300/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/122)

You should move to Australia - our main service provider (Telstra) currently offers 3.5G/UMTS/WCDMA with HSDPA data speeds on their "NextG" network up to 14.4MB/s, with plans to increase this to 21MB/s by the end of the year!

To put this into perspective for you, 14.4MB/s is the same speed as what ADSL 2 can theoretically reach here, and 21MB/s is slightly faster than what cable is in most areas (Sydney & Melbourne can reach slightly faster cable speeds)...

Now all we need is a BlackBerry device that can reach these speeds, or at least something faster than EDGE!

Wait a minute, are you sure it's MB and not Mb? If it's MB, that's like 8 times faster than ADSL2+

cruzer3
02-25-2008, 10:17 PM
The IPhone is only 2G the 3G model is not out yet. All the CDMA phones are EVDO and running at 3G speed. There is development for the next generations of 3G for CDMA which would be EVDO Rev B and also Ultra Mobile Boradband (UMB) before jumping to Long Term Evolution (LTE) which is 4G.

The GSM and UMTS carriers are behind in the speed game but when moving to 4G they do not have to change as much in the network as the CDMA carriers will have to do.

There is EVDO Rev 0 and EVDO Rev A out on the Sprint and Verizon networks.

wabbit
02-26-2008, 02:40 AM
Wirelessly posted (8830: BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Edge vs evdo surfing downloading I notice a difference evdo is faster. As for speeds a bb is flash rom or w/e it can easily take any speed evdo atm seems faster but when you compare 3 seconds vs 5 does it really matter? Only thing that would get affected is downloads / uploads etc surfing might be faster so instead of going to 50 websites an hour you can only do 40-45.

Sith_Apprentice
02-26-2008, 03:14 AM
There have been data tests on 4.5 or 5g networks that reach several GB/sec data transfers on mobile devices. granted, these technologies are still quite some time away from being able to be used in a cellular arena, but still nice to think about.

crossbones
02-26-2008, 04:52 AM
one thing I'd like to poinit out, and im nit picking but it can clear some things up for some people, but the term "3g" just means third generation. It refers to UMTS, HSDPA, EVDO etc.

They are all currently crap bacause there is all this technology and apart from tethering as a modem, no real applicatin for the technology.

On our network, people want more features, but then complain the phone is too big. You can't win. I do wish my 8310 was 3g though as I do use the browsing on it quite often, and my 8707 is much faster.

EDGE is crap btw, none of the UK networks have bothered with it because the speed difference is so little its not worth the investment.

BBbuddy
02-26-2008, 06:19 AM
@<hidden> crossbones

So the 8707 gives you really a speed-up. I think about to purchase one, but not sure if it's worthwhile. Like you mentioned it, there's no other UMTS-BB.
What about the battery-life and is it possible to turn UMTS of?

takeshi
02-26-2008, 09:31 AM
They are all currently crap bacause there is all this technology and apart from tethering as a modem, no real applicatin for the technology.

I do wish my 8310 was 3g though as I do use the browsing on it quite often, and my 8707 is much faster.
So there's no real application for the tech but you want it for faster browsing? I must have misread your post... There's never really such a thing as too much speed or too much space with tech.

DallasFlier
02-26-2008, 09:53 AM
I really question the 400 reading. Everything I have read and heard says absolute max is 384. Close to 400, but not quite. I don't think many of the speed tests are not very reliable for cells either, especially if a proxy server is involved.
384KB/s is the maximum not 400KB/s, though keep in mind that this is the "theoretical" maximum speed supported by EDGE... It's unlikely you'll ever get these speeds in practice though.

I didn't read through it, but Wikipedia seems to have quite a good little article on EDGE...
Enhanced Data Rates for GSM Evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution)
Dubdub and CybaCowboy, you guys SHOULD read that Wikipedia article that Cyba links above. You guys are wrong and Sith_Apprentice is correct - the EDGE theoretical maximum is 473.6Kb/sec.
Transmission techniques

In addition to Gaussian minimum-shift keying (GMSK), EDGE uses higher-order PSK/8 phase shift keying (8PSK) for the upper five of its nine modulation and coding schemes. EDGE produces a 3-bit word for every change in carrier phase. This effectively triples the gross data rate offered by GSM. EDGE, like GPRS, uses a rate adaptation algorithm that adapts the modulation and coding scheme (MCS) according to the quality of the radio channel, and thus the bit rate and robustness of data transmission. It introduces a new technology not found in GPRS, Incremental Redundancy, which, instead of retransmitting disturbed packets, sends more redundancy information to be combined in the receiver. This increases the probability of correct decoding.

EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network, and has been accepted by the ITU as part of the IMT-2000 family of 3G standards. It also enhances the circuit data mode called HSCSD, increasing the data rate of this service.

crossbones
02-26-2008, 12:58 PM
So there's no real application for the tech but you want it for faster browsing? I must have misread your post... There's never really such a thing as too much speed or too much space with tech.

Sorry wasn't very clear there, I meant to say apart from browsing and tethering as a modem!! Essentailly the same thing. The reason I find the 8707 slightly better for browsing is the improves upload speeds you get with 3g. means you dont sit for ages with it saying requesting while it resolves the hostname.

By applications of the tech I mean from a phone point of view. EG no one really wants to use video calling, or LBS services at the moment, (GPS no included in that as I still think the maps should be included on a card not by the internet) and as it was said previously, the email delivery is slightly slower due to the packet decoding upon receipt.

It will become the norm though, as the majority of the faster data services are deriviatives of 3g, mostly using the CN5 network protocals that Voda are rolling out in the background that will eventually make all 2g services obsolete.

CybaCowboy
02-27-2008, 12:29 AM
They are all currently crap bacause there is all this technology and apart from tethering as a modem, no real applicatin for the technology.

So Internet browsing (on the cell phone), mobile TV and video-calling aren't "real" applications for 3G/3.5G/UMTS technologies?

Mobile TV are video-calling are quickly picking-up pace in most countries outside of North America, and surfing the Internet from a cell phone is expected to explode as the Apple iPhone and similar products become more widely available - already there are countless articles online claiming that Internet browsing from a cell phone has increased by 50-100%+ since the iPhone's release in the States, and this is a trend that is expected to continue globally...


EDGE is crap btw, none of the UK networks have bothered with it because the speed difference is so little its not worth the investment.

I must admit, I was quite surprised at the speed of EDGE - it's a lot faster than I expected it to be, although this may be my BlackBerry Curve 8300's browser and not the EDGE network itself...

In comparison to even the slowest 3G/UMTS speeds though, EDGE is painfully slow - besides, globally, most carriers have skipped EDGE completely and gone straight for 3G/UMTS or better.

crossbones
02-27-2008, 03:13 AM
So Internet browsing (on the cell phone), mobile TV and video-calling aren't "real" applications for 3G/3.5G/UMTS technologies?



see my post above yours.

Video calling is a waste of time. Once the novelty wears off its really not very good. Mobile TV, ok granted could be good. However my experience of it so far has been the carriers still only provide short clips. I can see Youtube being a good idea, but thats still not here yet. And I was talking about current applications, of which youtube on phones isn't still here yet. Youtube mobile doesn't count as its all cut down videos, and is only compatible on a few devices.

HSDPA I wasn't talking about, it was 3g, as in UMTS. HSDPA is going to be the future, its theoreticl speeds with the current technology is 8Mb/s downloads which is more than my current home broadband speed!

What I'd like to see it used for is things like Gaming. As the phones get more powerful, I'd love to see online multiplayer games throught the phone/pda itself!

Soapm
02-27-2008, 10:20 PM
Wirelessly posted (8830: BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Edge vs evdo surfing downloading I notice a difference evdo is faster.

It's my understanding, in addition to the obvious, EVDO is optimized for Data Only which is more efficient when it comes to latency, dropped packets etc... This is a huge advantage but also means no WiFi audio.

rvpartsguy06
02-27-2008, 10:45 PM
i have At&T and 3g is available in my area....unfortunately the curve is not 3g capable


oh well...still love the phone