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cyberseal 75r
12-23-2008, 09:14 PM
I'm sure this topic has been beat to death on the forums, but I can't find much information about UMA. Is the reason why UMA is not on most Blackberrys a hardware issue or a software issue? From the research I've done it seems that the carrier has to support it, but the question is- could be it be in my Bold's future?

Helmdawg
12-23-2008, 09:18 PM
Start here. FAQ are your friend :) UMA is hardcoded into a specific phone. The Bold is NOT a UMA phone and no one knows if it will ever support it. The 8320 curve from Tmo is though....

BlackBerry FAQ - BlackBerryFAQ (http://www.blackberryfaq.com/index.php/BlackBerry_FAQ#Wifi_.2F_UMA_FAQ.27s)

cyberseal 75r
12-23-2008, 09:36 PM
Start here. FAQ are your friend :) UMA is hardcoded into a specific phone. The Bold is NOT a UMA phone and no one knows if it will ever support it. The 8320 curve from Tmo is though....

BlackBerry FAQ - BlackBerryFAQ (http://www.blackberryfaq.com/index.php/BlackBerry_FAQ#Wifi_.2F_UMA_FAQ.27s)


So by "hardcoded" you mean it is a hardware issue?

tsac
12-23-2008, 09:38 PM
This may help.
I dont see larger carriers doing this because it would allow usage to bypass the carriers system and billing although it would reduce the load on their system and thats a cost savings. It may be something Tmobile is doing to increase their customer base.


Unlicensed Mobile Access (UMA) technology enables access to GSM and GPRS mobile services over unlicensed spectrum, including Bluetooth™ and WiFi™. Highlights of UMA Technology:

Seamless delivery of mobile voice and data services over unlicensed wireless networks.
Provides the same mobile identity on Cellular RAN and unlicensed wireless networks.
Seamless transitions (roaming and handover) between Cellular RAN and unlicensed wireless networks.
Preserves investment in existing/future mobile core network infrastructure
Independent of underlying unlicensed spectrum technology (e.g. WiFi™, Bluetooth™)
Transparent to existing, standard CPE devices (e.g. access points, routers and modems)
Utilizes standard “always on" broadband IP access networks (e.g. DSL, Cable, T1/E1, Broadband Wireless, FTTH…)
Security equivalent to current GSM mobile networks
No impact to operations of Cellular RAN (e.g. spectrum engineering, cell planning,…)

UMA Technology Operation

UMA technology provides alternative access to GSM and GPRS core network services via IP-based broadband connections. In order to deliver a seamless user experience, the specifications define a new network element (the UMA Network Controller, UNC) and associated protocols that provide for the secure transport of GSM/GPRS signalling and user plane traffic over IP. The UNC interfaces into the core network via existing 3GPP specified A/Gb interfaces.


UMA Interoperability

An open test specification is under development that can be used to facilitate interoperability testing between implementations. . Companies planning to implement products based on the UMA specifications should seek bilateral compliancy testing agreements directly with other vendors.

In principle, the UMA specifications ensure interoperability similar to any other industry specifications, but the specifications may include options and parameters that have to be agreed bilaterally with other vendors. The UMA participating companies do not guarantee interoperability and the specifications may be upgraded without notice

Helmdawg
12-23-2008, 09:50 PM
So by "hardcoded" you mean it is a hardware issue?

Yes..

NJBlackBerry
12-23-2008, 09:50 PM
Good thing I use that small carrier T-Mobile :)

Helmdawg
12-23-2008, 09:53 PM
Good thing I use that small carrier T-Mobile :)

Thinking the same thing! :razz:

monkeypaw
12-23-2008, 09:55 PM
To answer one of the original questions, not only does the phone have to be capable, but the carrier has to be capable of handling UMA as well.

Helmdawg
12-23-2008, 09:59 PM
To answer one of the original questions, not only does the phone have to be capable, but the carrier has to be capable of handling UMA as well.

True dat! Thanks Monkeypaw...

tsac
12-24-2008, 11:36 AM
Maybe I should have said "less greedy" instead of smaller

Klotar
12-24-2008, 12:01 PM
I accepted the fact that the Bold did not support UMA, offhand I think the article/post said something about BB's with 3G could not be both 3G and UMA.

Fine.

However, I find it odd that the [Rogers] Pearl Flip (3G, Wifi, Camera, GPS) does support UMA.

tsac
12-24-2008, 12:06 PM
I still think it has a lot to do with the carrier loosing minutes that they can bill for.

Berry One
12-25-2008, 08:50 AM
I accepted the fact that the Bold did not support UMA, offhand I think the article/post said something about BB's with 3G could not be both 3G and UMA.

Fine.

However, I find it odd that the [Rogers] Pearl Flip (3G, Wifi, Camera, GPS) does support UMA.


Pearl Flip is EDGE, not 3G. It also does not have GPS, not that it matters to this conversation but just to show you have specs for device other than Pearl 8220.

NJBlackBerry
12-25-2008, 10:00 AM
Yep, the Flip is EDGE, UMA, WiFi and camera. No 3G. No GPS.
Besides that....

GT5L
12-25-2008, 01:09 PM
Start here. FAQ are your friend UMA is hardcoded into a specific phone. The Bold is NOT a UMA phone and no one knows if it will ever support it. The 8320 curve from Tmo is though....

I am not totally convinced that it is a hardware issue. I think it is coded as part of the ROM flash, the part on the phone that is not updated during OS upgrades. But hardware, that is a far stretch if you ask me.

Shaun
12-25-2008, 03:00 PM
I dont see larger carriers doing this because it would allow usage to bypass the carriers system and billing although it would reduce the load on their system and thats a cost savings.

I still think it has a lot to do with the carrier loosing minutes that they can bill for.

When using UMA, minutes are used in the same manner as a standard cell based call. The carrier is billing/charging minutes the same either way.

Shaun
12-25-2008, 03:02 PM
I am not totally convinced that it is a hardware issue. I think it is coded as part of the ROM flash, the part on the phone that is not updated during OS upgrades. But hardware, that is a far stretch if you ask me.

Hop on Google and search (or search BBF), it is completely hardware based.

NJBlackBerry
12-25-2008, 03:39 PM
When using UMA, minutes are used in the same manner as a standard cell based call. The carrier is billing/charging minutes the same either way.

Not quite - at least with T-Mobile. I have the Hotspot@<hidden> plan, and UMA minutes (within the US) do not count against my minutes.

When I am out of the US, and using UMA minutes are charged at a much lower rate.

Shaun
12-25-2008, 05:17 PM
Not quite - at least with T-Mobile. I have the Hotspot@<hidden> plan, and UMA minutes (within the US) do not count against my minutes.

When I am out of the US, and using UMA minutes are charged at a much lower rate.

My apologies, you are correct. I will now return to the underside of my rock. :?

NJBlackBerry
12-25-2008, 06:34 PM
No need for that at all :-)

TroyDBrown
12-25-2008, 06:51 PM
Hop on Google and search (or search BBF), it is completely hardware based.

Here is my shot at this. It is can be said to be hardware based because of the integration between the UMA firmware, device hardware and WiFi radio. This programming level is not accessible via an API so third party development of a UMA solution is out of the question. UMA simply creates an IPSec tunnel to the UMA carrier and uses the SIM card data for authentication.

Technically Hardware based: No, Impossible to develop a UMA application without full access device hardware, correct.

Possibility of putting UMA after the fact on one of todays Bolds, Zero without RIM releasing a low level firmware upgrade.

If anything I said above is incorrect or misleading please point it out. It is the best information I could locate.

Shaun
12-25-2008, 06:56 PM
Troy is there an aspect of "hardware being the issue" that has to do with 3G and wifi being on the same device?

TroyDBrown
12-25-2008, 06:58 PM
Troy is there an aspect of "hardware being the issue" that has to do with 3G and wifi being on the same device?

Let me look into that. That I do not know.

TroyDBrown
12-25-2008, 07:05 PM
Okay I found the hardware limitation. The limitation is in the chipset that controls the handover.

There is now a 3G UMTS / WiFi chipset available:
ST-NXP pushes on 3G-Wi-Fi converged handsets (http://eetimes.eu/germany/212500264;jsessionid=5YDB4PN4VH3KWQSNDLPSKH0CJUNN2JVN)

Also I found this great resource:
UMA Today (http://www.umatoday.com/)

So a Hardware limitation does exist due to call hand offs.

Klotar
01-05-2009, 02:09 PM
Yep, the Flip is EDGE, UMA, WiFi and camera. No 3G. No GPS.
Besides that....

I see now on the Rogers site that yes, you are right and that agrees with most other articles and pics posted on the 'net.

HOWEVER, in the Rogers UR Magazine (either current edition or the previous one), it clearly shows a Rogers 8220 Pearl flip with 3G on the home screen. I stared and stared at that advertisement, definitely not my imagination. But no doubt that all of the pics I cared to search online today definitely do say EDGE.

Edit/Add: Pg 17 of the Rogers UR Magazine, Holiday Edition.