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Inphektion
11-15-2005, 03:15 PM
http://www.bbhub.com/2005/11/15/exclusive-mondays-blackberry-8700c-launch-to-be-delayed-a-few/

pollster
11-15-2005, 04:07 PM
can not seem to open bbhub www address on blackberry delay/ seems everyone trying to get in / did get in after onslought dided down.

b00st3d
11-15-2005, 04:50 PM
damnittttt...the day after thanksgiving??? i cant wait that long!

ddiamond77
11-15-2005, 05:13 PM
So how reliable is BBHub? Better yet, how reliable is BBHub's Source, or BBHub's Source's Source?

ptzchris
11-15-2005, 05:47 PM
kinda expected this since the busiest day of shopping was in that week i figured they would push it back til then to get people more into the stores and mroe people wanting the 8700 g figure if this bbhub isnt reliable either way there will be people at the store on nov 21 or online at nov 21 12 am

europamo
11-15-2005, 06:35 PM
being a Nextel customer.....im jealous...

richard371
11-15-2005, 08:37 PM
My rep sales the rollout has been moved to early dec.

Boy Genius
11-15-2005, 08:43 PM
I have also confirmed this info, it will be delayed a little bit, nowhere near December as I heard it, more likely it will be the 25th of November.

ptzchris
11-15-2005, 10:42 PM
i have heard from my good friend a sales rep for a cingular store 25 november busiest day of shopping next to the day after christmas....Day After Thanskgiving 25 November

mas90guru
11-16-2005, 08:10 AM
Is the day after T-Giving the best day to move a higher tech item? I can imagine most Cingular stores being swamped with representatives moving the freebie phones and not knowing much about the Blackberry devices. It's nice to fantasize that it would be otherwise but I doubt it.

hnwosu
11-16-2005, 09:09 AM
I won't be surprised if it hits stores Nov. 25, because Cingular reps still have no idea when they are getting the phone. From what I've learned with Cingular, the stores usually have no clue on what is going on online. Sometimes there is a deal online that they do not even no about. For all of us who have been with Cingular, we all know the phones are online way before the stores get them. The only thing Cingular store is good for is really buying the phone...anything outside of that they tell you to call customer service. With that being said I think the online launch personally is still, at least for business users is Nov 21. Think about it, is it really a good business decision to release a business grade phone to everyone at the same time....on the day after Thanksgiving?...customer service will be swamped, it just doesn't make sense. But then again, this is Cingular, we will have to wait and see.

jnelson2000
11-16-2005, 09:15 AM
I assume many stores will not have devices by 11/25, since the recall was just announced 2 days ago and all handhelds must be reloaded and repackaged before re-sending to stores.

My source says the update was in reference to EDGE. Anyone have any more information, please post away.

hnwosu
11-16-2005, 09:21 AM
What recall? Where did you find this information at..or am I just clueness and out of the loop.

besadmin23
11-16-2005, 09:32 AM
guys, I am really beginning to be woried about this. Something isn't right. I am on what is known as a seeding list with Cingular. They were supposed to get 4000 units to send out to their biggest customers of which I am fortunate to be one of them and they have not even received the units yet. I really don't say this to brag. Just passing along the info. This doesn't sound good and with all the lawsuit probs I am starting to get a little nervous. Any thoughts?

nb_mitch
11-16-2005, 09:47 AM
I got an email reply from my Store Rep last night and she told me that in company stores no longer will provide my company discount and that the 8700c would be available online long before it comes to the store. So for me to get this phone, I needed to go online or via the phone if I wanted it on the 21st.

Also, I doubt that Nov 25th will be the store release date as this is not a item you are going to buy for a present. I would guess their big push item for Xmas would be selling the Family plan and adding phones for the kids, etc. Not selling a $300 BB of which they might only have a few at each store anyway.

Just my 2.5 cents worth,

Mitch

barjohn
11-16-2005, 09:54 AM
Sftware upgrade, B.S. in my opinion. You believe in coincidences? It just happens that it won't be available until after the judge rules on the NTP case? Corporate and enterprise users can't perform this software update? They can't make it optional, customers that want now must be able to do their own upgrade and those that don't can wait? Sounds like a plan to try and protect their stock price. To publicly admit they were holding back until after the court's ruling would mean that either they thought they were going to lose or that Cingular thought they were going to lose so that would have a big negative affect on the stock price. Sorry, I don't buy the software story. BG and others that have the device have not reprted one complaint about EDGE performance. Just my guess.

richard371
11-16-2005, 12:27 PM
The devices may have been unlocked and Cingular may have just decided to lock them all to Cingular. I believe boygenius said his is not locked and the guy who just got one said his is locked.

KonTiki
11-16-2005, 12:38 PM
The devices may have been unlocked and Cingular may have just decided to lock them all to Cingular. I believe boygenius said his is not locked and the guy who just got one said his is locked.


I agree specially since I saw someplace here that the Canadian counterparts were going to be that much more expensive, that someone suggested buying one in the States at a lower price since they had heard that they were unlocked. Economics again.

besadmin23
11-16-2005, 01:09 PM
barjohn, when you say "Corporate and enterprise users can't perform this software update?" are you saying this as a statement or as a question? Corportate and enterprise (BES users) can perform the upgrade to the device, but it is a matter of whether they (Cingular and RIM) want to ask all users to get a new device and immediatly upgrade it. I DO believe there CAN be a problem with the OS and EDGE that could cause a last minute change but I think I agree with you that this may be a ploy to get the delivery to be after the court rulling. Do you know when the ruling is supposed to occur. Maybe a link with the story.

One item that coroborates the possibility that there could be a technical snafu, is in the release notes of the latest 4.0.2.49 hh code for the 7290. It reads:
SDR55364
Previously, if you were using the handheld software on platform 1.8 and the network used Adaptive Multi-Rate (AMR) functionality, your handheld might reset during a phone call.
SDR55067
Previously, in extremely rare situations, if you were using the handheld software on platform 1.8 and the network used Adaptive Multi-Rate (AMR) functionality, you might have heard a high-pitched sound when you answered a phone call.

AMR is a technology that many of the GSM providers use in many areas of the states and abroud. If they had known this just prior to the release of the 7290, I would have to believe that an item of this nature could have forced a recall but as it turns out, they only figured it out a year later. This one really pissed me off as I have over 600 Cingular devices and this upgrade really seems to help users with dropped calls. Having to rely on 600 users to perform their own upgrade is difficult if you know what I mean.

Number13
11-16-2005, 01:41 PM
Sftware upgrade, B.S. in my opinion. You believe in coincidences? It just happens that it won't be available until after the judge rules on the NTP case? Corporate and enterprise users can't perform this software update? They can't make it optional, customers that want now must be able to do their own upgrade and those that don't can wait? Sounds like a plan to try and protect their stock price. To publicly admit they were holding back until after the court's ruling would mean that either they thought they were going to lose or that Cingular thought they were going to lose so that would have a big negative affect on the stock price. Sorry, I don't buy the software story. BG and others that have the device have not reprted one complaint about EDGE performance. Just my guess.

I'm sure the appropriate people at Cingular and RIM are doing what's best for their businesses and their stockholders and most importantly their customers. I do not believe it's the conspiracy you make it out to be. Whether it's BS or not is inconsequential. You are not in the tent making decisions with these people. IOW, you are not getting to see the big picture.

b00st3d
11-16-2005, 02:47 PM
just got off the phone with a cingular retail store manager...they had a meeting this morning about the 8700 with some of the area retail managers...they wont be getting them in the stores till the first week of december due to a software change...all the ones that were ready for shipment to the stores are being updated...this is what will cause the delay.

Stinsonddog
11-16-2005, 04:42 PM
He is hearing 11/28 and he said there was no status on the launch 8700's. Not sure what that means.

guinda35
11-16-2005, 05:17 PM
John:

"You believe in coincidences? It just happens that it won't be available until after the judge rules on the NTP case?"

That's so much bs John. You don't know when the judge will rule. No one does. Not even the judge. He doesn't know how long it'll take for him to draft and issue an opinion -- especially one involving a ruling of the complexity and import as this case. Besides, the 8700 release date has nothing to do with the NTP case -- nada. I don't understand why you're so damn sure it does.

greggebhardt
11-16-2005, 06:57 PM
Hmmmm, my Corp Rep called me today to confirm that I will have a 8700 on the way overnight on the 21st. I told him about the delay rumors and he had just got out of the meeting today and 21st is THE DAY!

Mr Pink57
11-16-2005, 07:03 PM
Hmmmm, my Corp Rep called me today to confirm that I will have a 8700 on the way overnight on the 21st. I told him about the delay rumors and he had just got out of the meeting today and 21st is THE DAY!

So are you switching off of Nextel Greg!?

pink

Boy Genius
11-16-2005, 07:32 PM
Yes I do have to say there has been not one single issue wtih EDGE/internet performance, the phone part is another story, the thing I HATE the blackberry phone is how slow the crap number dialing is when your in a call. Everytime u need to enter an extension or check ur voicemail and you enter a # there is a huge delay, god forbib you need to enter more than 1 digit, 1,2,3,4 takes 10 seconds after u press it you hear slowly pressing one by one the tones...so annoying.

bperkins
11-16-2005, 08:20 PM
Greg...congrats.

So what the hell is going on? Is it delayed or not? I have heard from two sources, one (Corp. Store I visited today) said software issue and there will be a delay. My B2B says he heard 21st. Not sure which one to believe.

BG Do you know for a fact that it has been delayed?

Boy Genius
11-16-2005, 08:34 PM
I honestly do not know for a fact, I have not heard anything from RIM about this... as much as I respect barjohn, I think he theory on why it is delayed (NTP lawsuit) is ridiculous, like someone else posted I believe this has been going on forever and there would be no reason this one case would make any difference. Its funny to me because someone said Cingular should pay once the device is scanned (sold) and what happens with the custom branding? Maybe if they were generic RIM devices but Cingular had to place a pretty large order and paid for the custom hardware/software branding. Either way if there was an injuction against selling they are screwed so that will not stop them from selling them as quick as possible to recoup as much money asap. Thats business.

bperkins
11-16-2005, 08:47 PM
Thanks. IMO I find it hard to believe that the injunction will happen. I will be glad when RIM is able to put this behind them and move on. Furthermore I hope it is does not hurt them so much that they loose their position in the marketplace.

Soapm
11-16-2005, 11:33 PM
Hey Genious, have they asked you to return your units for this update?

MobileRC
11-16-2005, 11:45 PM
21st for cingular... rogers right after... based on initial shipments it should go straight to backorder. Rogers locations should have them no later than 29th

Boy Genius
11-17-2005, 12:06 AM
Basically I heard that there would be an update on RIM's website when the devices are released, just to make sure everyone gets the update and latest software.

dyzs
11-17-2005, 01:05 AM
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry7105/4.0.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

Has anyone who was at the launch gotten theirs yet?

abstractrude
11-17-2005, 01:30 AM
blackberry...black friday....hmmmmmm

barjohn
11-17-2005, 02:04 AM
According to Pinstack the hold up was to change the software to software that does not infringe the Patents and therefore to immunize the new BB's from an injunction. Now that makes sense to me. They have been saying they had a solution on the shelf so using it to avoid the injunction is a good idea for the devices. I'm not sure what that means to the BES though and how it will be changed. I have attached the courts order from the 11/13/05 hearing.

You will notice that once the court makes a determination on whether an agreement existed or not it intends to move forward.

Whether it will after the request from the federal government is another issue.

For those that don't know, parol evidence is oral declarations,l statements/promises that are made usually in regards to a contract. Under the parol evidence rule, they are normally not allowed. It can be introduced if it is not inconsistent with the writing (written contract).

I trust everyone know I was being sarcastic when I was talking about corporate and enterprise customers not being able to perform the upgrades.

The following is the summary of the appellate court decision:

DECIDED: August 2, 2005
__________________________
Before MICHEL,* Chief Judge, SCHALL, and LINN, Circuit Judges.1
LINN, Circuit Judge.
Research In Motion, Ltd. (“RIM”) appeals from a judgment of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia (“district court”) entered in favor of NTP, Inc. (“NTP”) following a jury verdict that RIM’s BlackBerry™ system infringed NTP’s U.S. Patents Nos. 5,436,960 (“the ’960 patent”); 5,625,670 (“the ’670 patent”); 5,819,172 (“the ’172 patent”); 6,067,451 (“the ’451 patent”); and 6,317,592 (“the ’592 patent”)
* Paul R. Michel assumed the position of Chief Judge on December 25, 2004.
1 The earlier opinion in this case, reported at 392 F.3d 1336 (Fed. Cir. 2004), is withdrawn, and this opinion is substituted therefor. See Order in this case issued this date. (collectively, “the patents-in-suit”) and awarding damages to NTP in the amount of $53,704,322.69. NTP, Inc. v. Research in Motion, Ltd., No. 3:01CV767 (E.D. Va. Aug.5, 2003) (“Final Judgment”). The court, in a final order also appealed by RIM,permanently enjoined any further infringement by RIM, but stayed the injunction pending this appeal. We conclude that the district court erred in construing the claim
term “originating processor,” but did not err in construing any of the other claim terms on appeal. We also conclude that the district court correctly denied RIM’s motion for judgment as a matter of law (“JMOL”), and did not abuse its discretion in denying evidentiary motions. Finally, we conclude that the district court was correct in sending the question of infringement of the system and apparatus claims to the jury, but erred as a matter of law in entering judgment of infringement of the method claims. Thus, we affirm-in-part, reverse-in-part, vacate-in-part, and remand for further proceedings consistent with this opinion.

greggebhardt
11-17-2005, 10:05 AM
So are you switching off of Nextel Greg!?

pink

My compnay has 18 Nextel phone currently. I have been elected to be the "tester" and will be getting the 8700 with Cingular phone service. I will keep my Nextel until I see it all works OK.

My employees are complaining about getting and receiving calls more and more, it can really get bad early in the morning and late afternoon during peak times. A few days ago we all lost DC service for several hours and you had to dial several times to get thru on a voice call. Do not know what is going on but I do have one Cingular line of which has never failed me, even when out in the woods.

I do not know why but have been banned from HoFo for a week. Reason given was "Flaming"! I consider myself quite laid back compared to others and can not remember Flaming anyone. I have emailed several times with no response except from YoDude who said that he did not ban me and would check up on it for me. No futher word received from him.

It feels cold and lonely out here!

Boy Genius
11-17-2005, 11:57 AM
barjohn again I think your incorrect. It seems so stupid to me why they would do that, they already have the new code, and new server software incase of an injuction why would they go through the trouble of updating EVERY 8700, when they could have installed it there in the first place? They knew this was going on, so I do think your incorrect.

barjohn
11-17-2005, 04:35 PM
BJ, That was on Pinstack and it happened to make sense to me if they thought they might be enjoined although I would still have allowed corporate and enterprise customers to do the upgrade themselves. I wasn't wrong, I was quoting the source that said they got that from RIM.

Stinsonddog
11-17-2005, 07:26 PM
Acknowleding my attendance and saying they will deliver one right to my door. No time frame but at least I heard from them.

vannessa
11-17-2005, 10:42 PM
BJ, That was on Pinstack and it happened to make sense to me if they thought they might be enjoined although I would still have allowed corporate and enterprise customers to do the upgrade themselves. I wasn't wrong, I was quoting the source that said they got that from RIM.

Where exactly did pinstack publish that. Can you post the link or PM to me. I've searched everywhere they never said that. Seems like your own view.

Boy Genius
11-17-2005, 10:48 PM
No I did read that there, he is correct...sorry...

vannessa
11-17-2005, 10:52 PM
No I did read that there, he is correct...sorry...

where's the link then? thanks

vannessa
11-17-2005, 10:58 PM
ok here's what i found. Barjohn posted the exact same thing on pinstack saying he heard it as a rumor...

Barjohn on pinstack:

"This is rumor, but I am hearing that the 8700c may be delayed. Several reasons have been given including some software changes and that Cingular wants to wait and see what happens with the NTP lawsuit. I can understand their concern that they could be sitting on millions of dollars worth of devices they cannot sell or worse yet they sell them just before the injunction and then the Blackberry service is shut down and they face a class action suit for selling a device they knew or should have known they would not be able to service.

I sure hope these rumors prove to be false.
__________________
John

For Reviews on Smartphones and Bluetooth Headsets see BarJohn Reviews IT at:
http://www.barjohn.com"

Found that here:
http://www.pinstack.com/blackberryforums/showthread.php?t=384

barjohn
11-18-2005, 12:11 AM
It was on the front page of their FAQ's section. I don't believe it was based on my speculation. I claearly stated that my speculation was just that and nothing more. If I have a fact or first hand knowledge I will quote it as such. If it is speculation or rumor I say so. I have numerous people that PM me asking for my opinion on one device or another. If I don't have first hand experience, I tell them, and I won't make a recommendation. I value my credebility more than to falsely make a claim. I expect that the reader understands the difference between a rumor, clearly stated as such, or speculation clearly stated as such. I don't expect everyone to agree with my speculation or to believe the rumor. I get many rumors PMed to me, some of which I pass on if I think the author is at least somewhat credible. For example, when I first posted about the delay (and I waited a day after I received the info) the information came from high levels at RIM that a delay in getting units out to attendees was coming. What I didn't and couldn't know was whether the reason I was being given was true. I stated at that time the reason I was given but I also questioned it as any good reporter should do. Especially, if it seems illogical. It could be the reason but there is nothing wrong with questioning it. Some people on this forum get offended or offensive over the slightest things. I thought the idea was to have an open dialog freely expressing ideas, information, facts, and yes even rumors when they are relevant because they may affect someone in the user community. The key to me is to honestly identify rumors and speculation as such and not try to pass them off as fact. Everyone is free to disagree with me. I'll still try to help those that want it.

vannessa
11-18-2005, 12:29 AM
As you say you quote sources so why would you post news as a rumor that was already posted on the site and not quote the source if it was posted for the public. Your not making sense. Thing is I frequent the FAQ's section.. daily and not the forums thats why I had to search to find your post...... and i've never seen anything remotely close to the NTP rumor you started. Which is why i wanted the link.. I would have been glad to get some more news.

Then two post down you ask one of the site admins...

"
Hydn, have you heard similar rumblings? I guess we will know on Thursday (I can't remember whether it is this Thursday or next).
__________________
John"

If they were the source shouldn't you ask if anything MORE was heard?


As you said just said "I have numerous people that PM me asking for my opinion on one device or another." So I guess you have to make stuff up sometimes. Not a problem but when someone challenges you don't pass the hot pan.

barjohn
11-18-2005, 12:40 AM
I just reread my post above and I don't believe I said I quoted sources anywhere in it. I said if I have first hand knowledge I state it as such and if it is rumor or speculation I state it as such. I very clearly stated that what I was saying was a rumor. So I don't have a clue what you are saying. Just because you didn't find anyone else stating the rumor...so what? You are not obligated to take a rumor as fact, merely take it in, evaluate it in light of what you know and accept or reject it. How hard is that to do?

I read lots of rumors on this site and others. I accept that they are rumors or speculation and take them as such. If someone states something is a known fact and they can't back it up, that is different. Corey is good at challenging those making unsupported factual statements. Sometimes a little more brutally than I think he should but that is his decision.

vannessa
11-18-2005, 12:47 AM
You said: "If I have a fact or first hand knowledge I will quote it as such. "

You never said where - in your first post - your knowledge came from on bbf . Never stated where on the pinstack forums either.

Yet when your rumor is told to be not making sense you post...

"According to Pinstack the hold up was to change the software to software that does not infringe the Patents and therefore to immunize the new BB's from an injunction. Now that makes sense to me."

lol ok I totaly heard understand thanks for explaining.

barjohn
11-18-2005, 09:14 AM
Are you incapable of reading or comprehending English? I said it was a rumor in the first sentence. Hence I did not quote it as fact. Hence I did not quote the source. Is the rumor true, I don't know. I even said at the end that I hoped it was not. I am not defending the rumor. I hope it is false but the truth is we still don't know since some posters say they have been told they will be getting thiers next week and other are saying it won't be until December and so on. On the 21st we will know whether it is released. If it isn't we still won't know why.

barjohn
11-18-2005, 09:26 AM
I just received an email from RIM informing me that they are still trying very hard to make the 21st release date but that they can't send any devices until the new code is accepted. I presume he means by the carrier although he did not say that.

MozMan68
11-18-2005, 09:27 AM
Yes I do have to say there has been not one single issue wtih EDGE/internet performance, the phone part is another story, the thing I HATE the blackberry phone is how slow the crap number dialing is when your in a call. Everytime u need to enter an extension or check ur voicemail and you enter a # there is a huge delay, god forbib you need to enter more than 1 digit, 1,2,3,4 takes 10 seconds after u press it you hear slowly pressing one by one the tones...so annoying.

That is my biggest complaint of my 7100....I thought something was wrong when I first got it....why DOES the phone not dial the numbers as fast as I press them?? Not that I don't enjoy hearing the last five numbers pressed as I place the phone to my ear.

It was even more annoying when I finally got my Bluetooth headset...now I can get completely confused as I am dialing and NOT hearing the tones at the same time.

barjohn
11-18-2005, 09:35 AM
The following is from PinStack and while it DOES NOT say this is the reason for the delay it MIGHT explain it:

Nice try NTP - RIM one step ahead


Research In Motion Ltd. is "very very comfortable" with a software upgrade it may deploy in a bid to work around the patents involved in its legal dispute with NTP Inc., its co-chief executive said on Wednesday.
"It's a software upgrade that we're very, very comfortable with and we've done focus groups with and we're just finishing testing," RIM Co-Chief Executive Jim Balsillie told investors in New York.

barjohn
11-18-2005, 09:40 AM
This was just posted by Cingular Insider on PinStack:

On November 1, 2005, Cingular announced the BlackBerry 8700c availability for later in November. Please note that the scheduled 11/21 launch of the BlackBerry 8700c is briefly delayed. Due to network improvements by Cingular brought about by integration, enhancements to the handheld code are necessary and will require additional testing. A new launch date of the BlackBerry 8700c will be set later in the week based on technical acceptance and expected inventory arrival in Cingular distribution centers.

BlackBerry Pre-ordering Now Available: In order to facilitate the smooth introduction of this new product, we have activated the BlackBerry 8700c sku in both blue and orange systems to support pre-orders. Those orders that are submitted prior to availability in the NDC will be accepted and passed into backorder status for fulfillment once product is received and launched in late November.

Pre ordering is only for Business Customers only at this time as far as I know. You Either have to have a business account manager or Call to the Direct Business Customer care center.
__________________
Thanks

Cingular Insider

Inphektion
11-21-2005, 05:01 PM
My B2B rep confirmed they did get the 8700's in their warehouse today and they are processing orders. So I might expect my 8700 tomorrow.

kal311
11-21-2005, 05:52 PM
Does anyone have any idea about online or store sales for us less fortunate souls who dont have a B2B connection?