BB 8900 vs I-Phone 3gS

[WIKD1]

I am hoping you guys can help me make an informed decision. I have had BB's for quite a few years and my 8900 is by far the best one yet. However my carrier, T-Mobile, had been giving me all types of problems the last 6 weeks and they are not sure how long till they can rectify their tower problems. So I am changing carriers to AT&T and with it need new phones for me and the wife, she also has a BB. The wifes company will pay for the phones, a nice perk, and she has her heart set on the new I-Phone 3GS. I have been trying to decide between a BB or the I-Phone. The only cons to the BB is no 3G and a slow web browser but the problem is only 1 con to the I-Phone I can think of and thats no MMS till September. Not a big deal because thats one of the issues I am having with T-Mobile so have not been able to receive MMS for a month. Any information or different way of looking at things would be appreciated. I hate to jump to the I-phone and miss out on something I'm overlooking. Thanks.

[dankarlinski]

Wirelessly posted (My Bold)

U need to keep in mind of the touch screen. It makes typing much slower and harder

[harddude5]

Wirelessly posted (My Bold)

U need to keep in mind of the touch screen. It makes typing much slower and harder To say nothing of having a screen covered with fingerprints. I hate that about my Garmin GPS and it is ten times worse when you are typing email on the iPhone screen. Yet people rave about the iPhone's screen. I guess they don't mind the smudges.

[TotalTech]

Wirelessly posted (VZW Storm, ATT Bold)

The bold on ATT is 3g isn't it? The processor is one of the fastest I've used on a BB and it does support mms. Both have gps both have media players one has a really qwerty keyboard one is touch screen. And the iPhone has no replacable battery.



How well will the cut and past work? How well will the landscape keyboard work? It will be a mad rush those first days for the iPhone I'd recommend going and touching both.



The iPhone does have a ton of apps most are just ehh but some are useful.



Bottom line will be your preference

[popusito]

Keep in mind that the iphone is more for entretaiment than anything else, i wouldnt change my 8900 for an iphone if i want 3g i would wait for the new ones from bb or go to the bold!!!

[unkmark]

As A Former Iphone User, I Can Say, GLAD TO HAVE BUTTONS BACK!

[ifonline]

Agreed. I have had the iPhone and the iPhone 3G (two of them, actually). Before (and in-between) the iPhones, I have had BlackBerry devices going all the way back to the RIM 950. I just keep coming back to the BlackBerry. The iPhone is a great device, and the 3GS looks to be even nicer, but it still doesn't have a hardware keyboard. For me, that's a big deal. There's more to it than that, but the keyboard on the Bold is just that amazing.

And unkmark, ironic what you said as that is exactly what I said last week when I picked up the Bold. It just feels right.

Beyond that, though, is the issue of switching carriers. The grass is always greener, as they say. You will find AT&T has its share of issues as well, from down time to spotty 3G coverage in areas. I have been with AT&T for so long I can't remember what they used to be called, but at one point it was BellSouth DCS I think. I won't be leaving AT&T for another carrier because none are perfect, so I might as well stick with the one I have the history with. It helps me out since I change phones more than I change socks (I'll be switching to the Tour/Onyx/whatever it will be called when it hits AT&T for example).

On the other hand, something to consider... It has been said that AT&T is the largest BlackBerry carrier in the US, and possibly in the world. If accurate, there wouldn't be a better carrier if you plan on sticking with the BlackBerry.

[Dinkoh]

Agreed. I have had the iPhone and the iPhone 3G (two of them, actually). Before (and in-between) the iPhones, I have had BlackBerry devices going all the way back to the RIM 950. I just keep coming back to the BlackBerry. The iPhone is a great device, and the 3GS looks to be even nicer, but it still doesn't have a hardware keyboard. For me, that's a big deal. There's more to it than that, but the keyboard on the Bold is just that amazing.

And unkmark, ironic what you said as that is exactly what I said last week when I picked up the Bold. It just feels right.

Beyond that, though, is the issue of switching carriers. The grass is always greener, as they say. You will find AT&T has its share of issues as well, from down time to spotty 3G coverage in areas. I have been with AT&T for so long I can't remember what they used to be called, but at one point it was BellSouth DCS I think. I won't be leaving AT&T for another carrier because none are perfect, so I might as well stick with the one I have the history with. It helps me out since I change phones more than I change socks (I'll be switching to the Tour/Onyx/whatever it will be called when it hits AT&T for example).

On the other hand, something to consider... It has been said that AT&T is the largest BlackBerry carrier in the US, and possibly in the world. If accurate, there wouldn't be a better carrier if you plan on sticking with the BlackBerry.


To add, Iphone is a great phone for internet browsing. It has a better browsing interface IMO. I think the BB has lot to improve in that department.

[ifonline]

Very true. The iPhone does have a fantastic web browser. That said, I can do a quick Google search or a Wikipedia read and get information without issue on the BlackBerry. The web browsing experience on the BlackBerry doesn't come close to the iPhone's, but it isn't absolutely horrible either.

[steveoevets]

Wirelessly posted (VZW Storm, ATT Bold)

The bold on ATT is 3g isn't it? The processor is one of the fastest I've used on a BB and it does support mms. Both have gps both have media players one has a really qwerty keyboard one is touch screen. And the iPhone has no replacable battery.



How well will the cut and past work? How well will the landscape keyboard work? It will be a mad rush those first days for the iPhone I'd recommend going and touching both.



The iPhone does have a ton of apps most are just ehh but some are useful.



Bottom line will be your preference

I agree with this. It is preference. I support Blackberry devices at my place of work but I carry an iPhone for personal use. I can type much faster on my iPhone then on a full qwerty BB device.

People also forget that the BlackBerry is a smartphone and works great for that. The iPhone is more or less a Computer. I make calls, Surf, Text use GPS, dock it in my car and play music, Remote control iTunes in my house, stream video to the net etc etc. Battery life is not going to be the same as the iPhone has way more horsepower.

I work to live, not live for work.
iPhone for living
BlackBerry for working

[WIKD1]

Thanks for all the input guys. Still not sure what I'm going to do only because I have had such good luck with the BB's I have had. The only definite is I am changing to AT&T. I just can't put up with the issues I am having with T-Mobile, which is a shame since I have been with them for years.
I do have a question that maybe steve or someone can answer since its impossible to get through to apple. Can you sync the Iphone with outlook 03? I don't have a mac and use outlook for everything so if I can't do that it will be a deal breaker.

[steveoevets]

Yes. It was designed to play nice with MS. Check this out...

Sync Your iPhone 3G with Vista and Outlook (http://www.smartdevicecentral.com/article/sync+your+iphone+3g+with+vista+and+outlook/231550_1.aspx)

[david9962000]

Keep in mind that the iphone is more for entretaiment than anything else, i wouldnt change my 8900 for an iphone if i want 3g i would wait for the new ones from bb or go to the bold!!!

I agree, if you spend time on Facebook, youtube... and use the browser a lot get an iphone but for emails nothing is better than a BB!

[steveoevets]

Email is great on the iPhone. I would say if you connect to an exchange environment there's no better choice than a BB.

Again, life vs work..

[WIKD1]

Thanks Steve thats what I was trying to find out. That helped out a lot.

[ifonline]

Email is great on the iPhone.

I have a different viewpoint. I found e-mail on the iPhone to be cumbersome. I have several e-mail accounts that I check on a regular basis, and drilling down into the folders on the iPhone for each account just to read and manage e-mail became a pain. Drill down. Read. Delete. Drill up. Drill down in next account. Rinse. Repeat.

Additionally, their push e-mail wasn't so hot. E-mail managed on the computer was not pushed to the iPhone until a new message appeared. According to Apple, this is the way it was designed to work. What? It used to drive me nuts to have an unread e-mail icon on the iPhone even after I read all my e-mail on my desktop computer. Why these two couldn't stay in sync was beyond me.

[ndub33]

Moving to the BlackBerry Versus section.

[TheBigNewt]

Just a suggestion to consider: if you like BB check out the 8900. It's not 3g but it's as fast on EDGE as the Bold is on 3G if you use ATT (at least for downloading pages). That's what a lot of people say. I know that 3g on ATT has some battery issues searching for a signal. Of course the Bold is 3g on ATT too, if you're sold on the 3g thing (I'm not). So the iPhone isn't the only excellent smartphone out there.

[hakaida442]

I have an 8800 thats getting old ( no camera, no 3g) for work (real estate) and am debating between the iphone 3gs (peer pressure from my apple fanboy/girl buddies) and the upcoming bb magnum or onyx. So far I hate the keyboard on the iphone (everyone says i'll get used to it) and hate that it lacks a Today theme like the ones on bb. I also find that the bb is much easier to use with one hand too.

The one thing that I really hate about the bb is the trackball. I hate cleaning it and having to do a battery pull every week. I'm hoping the new bb devices will have the trackpad.

[ArgonNJ]

Email is great on the iPhone. I would say if you connect to an exchange environment there's no better choice than a BB.

Again, life vs work..

The BB with Exchange is only better if your company uses BES. If it doesn't, then the iphone is better.

[hakaida442]

A question for anyone that knows the iphone well. When you are looking at the contacts in the iphone phone book, I notice that it doesn't show the company name under the contact like it does on the blackberry. Is there an option to show the company name in small print under the name of the person when looking at the list of contacts? This might be a deal breaker for me. I guess this is why bb is the best for business users.

[ifonline]

No. Options are fairly limited on the iPhone. To make matters worse, Apple has a tendency towards half-baked solutions with the iPhone/iPod Touch.

For example, Bluetooth audio streaming is finally an option with iPhone OS 3... hooray! Now I can finally use my iPod Touch on my motorcycle via Bluetooth streaming! And since my helmet (Nolan N-103) has the ability to play, pause, stop, fast forward, and rewind Bluetooth audio devices, I can control my iPod Touch! Yay! Oh wait... Apple has not implemented Bluetooth A/V control. What? So another half-baked implementation. Surprise.

My Bold, with its "terrible multimedia capabilities," can do this. Huh. That's odd.

[DataCentre]

People also forget that the BlackBerry is a smartphone and works great for that. The iPhone is more or less a Computer. I make calls, Surf, Text use GPS, dock it in my car and play music, Remote control iTunes in my house, stream video to the net etc etc. Battery life is not going to be the same as the iPhone has way more horsepower.

I don't agree with you on this one. My BB can do all that the iPhone can, except I find that on my iPod Touch, after just playing a few games and listening to some music, the battery is really low. Nice thing is, when my BB battery is dead and I'm out on the road with no place to charge it, I can just take out my spare battery that I carry with me, pop it in and I'm good to go. Can't do that with an iPhone.

[test54]

these threads are pointless, just look at the last million of them and they all read the same.

[ifonline]

Very true. But hey, it helps pass time during the day.

[steveoevets]

Thanks Steve thats what I was trying to find out. That helped out a lot.

You're welcome.

[David.Burke]

A question for anyone that knows the iphone well. When you are looking at the contacts in the iphone phone book, I notice that it doesn't show the company name under the contact like it does on the blackberry. Is there an option to show the company name in small print under the name of the person when looking at the list of contacts? This might be a deal breaker for me. I guess this is why bb is the best for business users.

If you're syncing from a Mac you have more address fields, if you're creating a contact on the phone you can add a business. I don't know what gets transferred in a sync from Outlook.

[ifonline]

It will show the company name when viewing the details of the contact, sure, but unlike the BlackBerry, it will not show the company name under the contact name when viewing the list of contacts. I assumed that was what the question was referring to.

[David.Burke]

It will show the company name when viewing the details of the contact, sure, but unlike the BlackBerry, it will not show the company name under the contact name when viewing the list of contacts. I assumed that was what the question was referring to.

Oh, yeah, you're right! That's probably what the OP was referring to.

[dc/dc]

It's called an iPhone, not I-Phone.

[hakaida442]

If you're syncing from a Mac you have more address fields, if you're creating a contact on the phone you can add a business. I don't know what gets transferred in a sync from Outlook.

but does the address field show up in the list of contacts? thats what i didnt like when looking at a friends iphone. i have over 600 contacts and at least 75% is for work. in list mode (or whatever iphone people call it) it only shows the names of contacts.

[hakaida442]

It will show the company name when viewing the details of the contact, sure, but unlike the BlackBerry, it will not show the company name under the contact name when viewing the list of contacts. I assumed that was what the question was referring to.

yes that was what i was asking for. i guess i'm not ready to quite give up the bb.

[David.Burke]

yes that was what i was asking for. i guess i'm not ready to quite give up the bb.

Yeah, you wouldn't like the iPhone address book.

[David.Burke]

yes that was what i was asking for. i guess i'm not ready to quite give up the bb.

The only alternative you have is the group view. You can group corporate contacts by their company.

[Christie83]

OP, just to offer my experience:

My 2G iPhone (does what I need, plus I save $240 on my AT&T contract with the cheaper plan) is two years old and still looks and works great - taken good care of it. I use the phone heavily, yet battery life is still good and I haven't needed to replace it. I run a non-profit organization and have two email accounts on the phone. I use and rely on my phone all the time. Email is not always perfect, but I will tell you that during the day 95% of the time emails arrive to my phone before they do on my computer.

There needs to be a referrence name for the phone for iPhone users like crackberry is for BB users. I don't know what I would do if I lost mine. It keeps me connected to my technology and needs. With the most recent update, 3.0 software, landscape mode is amazing, as is cut/copy/paste, the spotlight search, and mms (which you already know will technically be available through AT&T later this summer.) There's more on the update I haven't started using yet.

For me, the iPhone (including typing and the "smudgy" screen - if mine gets smudgy I don't notice) is so easy to use and does everything I need it to do like a workhorse. Good luck in your choice. Just wanted to add my input.

[zero7404]

sorry ppl, but i just have to post in here.

the article i posted below is just a classic image of what this whole iphone phenomena has become....i couldn't get the grin off my face when i saw the pictures comparing today's release with 2 yrs ago....

iPhone 3G S global launch sees smaller lines, quieter reception (update) (http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/06/19/iphone-3g-s-fizzles-out-for-global-retail/)

down in nyc, i hear the hopefuls waited in the chilly rain.....he he....'power to the ppl....'

[ifonline]

While that photo showed very few people in line for the iPhone 3GS at that particular store, check this out:

Update: According to O2, sales for the 3G S have already surpassed numbers for the iPhone 3G during last year's launch. Looks like pre-orders were in full effect here.

So, year one the iPhone was a massive hit. Year two, the iPhone 3G was an even bigger hit and outsold the original iPhone. Year three (and on launch day, today), and the iPhone 3GS is an even bigger hit! It has reportedly already sold more than last year on launch day. So while the lines may be shorter (and not all of them are), the sales are huge!

I love my BB, but I miss some of the capabilities of the iPhone. What really amazes me, though, is regardless of your stance on the iPhone, you can't deny the incredible sales these things generate.

Now where is RIM's new OS?

[zero7404]

all arguments welcome friends :) i need to rant here, so don't read on if you take things really seriously about this topic....

i don't see anything really revolutionary going on in the smartphone frontier....

as a matter of fact, the only recent smartphone offering that i see potential with is the Pre.....made only by it's WebOS operating system.

regardless of technology progression, i haven't seen many breakthroughs in the past 3-4 years. touch screen is a technology invented several years ago, it took long enough to appear on a phone

enter Apple's reality distortion feild, and you'll be sold on the iphone 3G S with it's 'revolutionary' technology and restrictions (personally, i think the restrictions are what's revolutionary about Apple products....before you know it, they've got you convinced).....

[ifonline]

I basically agree.

I am very disappointed with Apple's latest offering of the iPhone 3GS. In my opinion there isn't enough to justify moving from 3G to 3GS, but undoubtedly plenty of people will (and apparently already have).

As far as the Apple restrictions are concerned, I hated the limitations with the iPhone because those restrictions made the iPhone so incapable of being a truly fantastic device. Well, that and bugs. They didn't help.

[hakaida442]

I'm going to upgrade to the onyx or magnum if that's coming within the next 3 months. I also use msn messenger and aim (sometimes) and a lot of my contacts use bb messenger. I don't understand why the iphone only has a beta version of aim and no msn. i don't usually like going the 3rd party app route either and why can't the iphone run apps in the background. The iphone does a lot of things better than the bb, just not the things that are important to me.

[ifonline]

That's a pretty fair assessment... the iPhone does things well, but not what I need done well. So, for me, I have the iPod Touch for music and games (it does these very, very well), and the BlackBerry Bold for everything else.

[zero7404]

I'm going to upgrade to the onyx or magnum if that's coming within the next 3 months. I also use msn messenger and aim (sometimes) and a lot of my contacts use bb messenger. I don't understand why the iphone only has a beta version of aim and no msn. i don't usually like going the 3rd party app route either and why can't the iphone run apps in the background. The iphone does a lot of things better than the bb, just not the things that are important to me.

maybe you should look into a Pre....it can run multiple apps in the background, blackberrys can too, i'm in the dark as to why the iphone can't do this. i'm also in the dark as to why the iphone doesn't have themes or allow a background image.

[zero7404]

That's a pretty fair assessment... the iPhone does things well, but not what I need done well. So, for me, I have the iPod Touch for music and games (it does these very, very well), and the BlackBerry Bold for everything else.

i agree. however i gave up on the ipod touch a while ago because i found it to be buggy. as a matter of fact, ironically, apple frequently makes jabs at microsoft's user experience problems, but apple has more severe programming mishaps about as often, given it's scaled down user-base. from what i've seen, holes in safari extend to the mobile versions in addition to the desktop versions.

[clumpymold]

Some really good stuff here. I've just been told (repeatedly) that one should get the iPhone if they want "entertainment" features. If they want something more geared towards "email", get a Blackberry.

I've never had an iPhone and I JUST got a Blackberry (about a week ago) so, relatively speaking, either one of these is a HUGE step UP from my previous phone (Sony Ericsson K550i). :P

[ifonline]

i agree. however i gave up on the ipod touch a while ago because i found it to be buggy.

Strange you would say this... I just upgraded to OS 3, and I am experiencing new problems. The sound seems to be more quiet when I plug in headphones, and I am experiencing WiFi connectivity issues.

You're right about the iPod Touch having its share of problems. There are two memorized volume levels, one for the universal dock and one for headphones. The iPod Touch should stay on the headphone volume until you plug it into the dock, at which point you should see the volume automatically change to the last volume set while connected to the dock. You should see this, but at least in my case, I don't. Sometimes the iPod Touch would just refuse to switch volume settings until I removed it from the dock and put it right back in.

The iPod Touch is definitely frustrating, that's for sure. I found the iPhone to be worse.

[Christie83]

What iPhone bugs are you referring to? I can only speak from my experience with one iPhone, but I don't come across bugs... At one point Safari crashed a few times, and after a few weeks of not restarting the phone sometimes things work a bit slower - but restarting fixes that, kinda like restarting a computer I would think. Haven't had any other "bugs." Maybe I just have a good apple. Pun intended. :)

[hakaida442]

maybe you should look into a Pre....it can run multiple apps in the background, blackberrys can too, i'm in the dark as to why the iphone can't do this. i'm also in the dark as to why the iphone doesn't have themes or allow a background image.

I got a ton of rollover minutes from att that I'm not walking away from. Pre looks interesting, but I'll pass for now.

[zero7404]

Wirelessly posted (9530)

i agree. however i gave up on the ipod touch a while ago because i found it to be buggy.

Strange you would say this... I just upgraded to OS 3, and I am experiencing new problems. The sound seems to be more quiet when I plug in headphones, and I am experiencing WiFi connectivity issues.

You're right about the iPod Touch having its share of problems. There are two memorized volume levels, one for the universal dock and one for headphones. The iPod Touch should stay on the headphone volume until you plug it into the dock, at which point you should see the volume automatically change to the last volume set while connected to the dock. You should see this, but at least in my case, I don't. Sometimes the iPod Touch would just refuse to switch volume settings until I removed it from the dock and put it right back in.

The iPod Touch is definitely frustrating, that's for sure. I found the iPhone to be worse.

Another thing I think disgusts me: why do u pay to upgrade you ipod/iphone OS ?
Its especially ridiculous for those that have an ipod....music player paid software upgrade ?!
When that first happened with apple I simply sold the ipod touch

[psyct1]

i recently returned from iraq, the entire time i was there i couldn't wait to get back and get my hands on the Bold... not even 24 hours after my unit returned home, i was at the at&t store getting the Bold... the screen resolution is better than most TV's out right now IMO...

about two weeks later a good friend of mine i was stationed in japan with came out to visit with his wife, both had iPhone 3G's... after playing around with his (he had it jailbroken) i was really impressed... i really didn't want to give up on the hardware keyboard but, after messing around with his i got used to it quickly. the software is extremely intelligent as far as auto correcting goes (unfortunately i haven't figured out a way to change any of the autocorrect options like you can on the blackberry).

internet on the 3G is MUCH better than any blackberry (as has been mentioned here).

well, about 28 days after using the Bold, i bite the bullet and traded it in for the iPhone 3G myself. i immediately had it jailbroken and THAT is when everything was "opened up" on the iPhone. SOOOOOO many more options on a jailbroken iPhone including but not limited to; THEMES, the ability to show a background, being able to change the ringtones for MMS/SMS, more options to control the phone itself, a one stop place to turn off wifi/bluetooth/ssh/location(gps)/wireless sig (airplane mode) just with the swipe across the top of the screen. many of these things listed above are reasons many didn't want to switch from bb to iPhone.

a week and a half after i traded the Bold in for the iPhone they announced the 3Gs, which included a 50% price drop in the phone i had which was now a week old. at&t gave me the option to either pre-order the 3Gs or get a $150 rebate for the price difference, i opted to preorder considering it wasn't a penny more for the 32gig 3Gs...

now, i wasn't sure how much i'd use the compass on its own BUT... when you are in the maps application, you can use it to actually rotate the map for where you are looking, which i thought was amazing... especially since there isn't a true GPS navigation app out yet for the iPhone (i believe TomTom is working on one now though) using maps for directions is much better with that feature!!!

all in all, i am extremely happy with my decision to switch. i DEFINITELY miss the email PUSH through bb but, i found a work-around for that problem on the iPhone.

as has been mentioned many times, its all in what you'll use the phone more for... business owners should stick with BB, if you want more "play" out of your device, go iPhone!!

[ifonline]

As much as I like my BlackBerry, I have to say that was well put.

[ifonline]

Another thing I think disgusts me: why do u pay to upgrade you ipod/iphone OS ?
Its especially ridiculous for those that have an ipod....music player paid software upgrade ?!
When that first happened with apple I simply sold the ipod touch

As much as people refuse to accept it, there are valid reasons (at least as I understand it) that the iPod Touch is a paid upgrade while the iPhone is a free upgrade. It all stems from the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which itself stems from the fall of Enron.

This is not unique to the iPod Touch. There are other Apple products that fall under the S/O Act, as well as products from other manufacturers.

[psyct1]

Wirelessly posted (9530)



Another thing I think disgusts me: why do u pay to upgrade you ipod/iphone OS ?
Its especially ridiculous for those that have an ipod....music player paid software upgrade ?!
When that first happened with apple I simply sold the ipod touch

iPhone upgrade is free, only iPod touch you need to pay for but, its only $10...

what about all the updates of windows OS's that cost roughly $90...

Mac OS X Snow Leopard is only gonna be $29 to upgrade from Leopard

[ifonline]

Mac OS X Snow Leopard is only gonna be $29 to upgrade from Leopard

Now that I am excited about, especially with the promise that there will be proper Exchange support for Mail, iCal, and Address Book. Finally, real-time sync with my BlackBerry while using my desktop OS of choice!

[psyct1]

Now that I am excited about, especially with the promise that there will be proper Exchange support for Mail, iCal, and Address Book. Finally, real-time sync with my BlackBerry while using my desktop OS of choice!

yes sir, if only the corps would switch to Mac OS vice Shitdows

[ifonline]

Not likely to ever happen. I remember using freakin' 3270 terminals to do work on. What a mess. The Corps loves tradition, which I normally found to be okay, but sometimes it really impeded workflow and progress!

Semper Fi.

[zero7404]

iPhone upgrade is free, only iPod touch you need to pay for but, its only $10...

$ 10 is a lot to ask to 'upgrade' a mobile device OS, especially when all other competitors aren't charging a dime.....

what about all the updates of windows OS's that cost roughly $90...

what are you referring to that costs $ 90 ? a computer is not a mobile phone or mp3 player. Upgrading an OS for computer platforms needs more R&D than the scaled-down, easy to write for mobile platforms like phones and mp3 players. it's going to be a while before any mobile device smaller than 7"x4" can be called a desktop replacement.

Mac OS X Snow Leopard is only gonna be $29 to upgrade from Leopard

i respect your line of work for the fact that you put yourself in harms way for a cause, but the administration and decision makers which are the ppl that ordered you over there are less than righteous with money-driven motives as a priority over peace and life.....but at least they know how to compensate their soldiers: an S4, a bold, a mac, etc....all with steep discounts i bet. so what's $ 29 in that case ?

with regard to apple products, spend all your money on them if you like. in the end an apple product is a loss bigger than most other tech products i would consider buying. this is because you will A: lose interest in a short period of time, and B: they will update something in less than 6 months and you will feel like you just spend a whole bunch of money on something that no one's raving about anymore.

[psyct1]

zero...

not sure if you were trying to throw a "zinger" in there about my "line of work" but...

people take this stuff WAY to seriously, its a damn phone or mp3 player...

if you don't want to pay the $10 to upgrade, don't...

if you don't want to purchase an apple device, don't...

but DON'T tell someone not to just because you do not like the products, send them to an electronics store, try out both, if they like either... THEY are happy... i'm sure you won't lose any sleep over one of your friend's switching from windows > mac, or blackberry > iphone...

[zero7404]

but DON'T tell someone not to just because you do not like the products, send them to an electronics store, try out both, if they like either... THEY are happy... i'm sure you won't lose any sleep over one of your friend's switching from windows > mac, or blackberry > iphone...

did i tell you not to buy something i don't like ?

[ifonline]

Well... this was a somewhat interesting discussion, but it looks like it is about to take a turn for the worse. Time to unsubscribe I guess.

[psyct1]

Not likely to ever happen. I remember using freakin' 3270 terminals to do work on. What a mess. The Corps loves tradition, which I normally found to be okay, but sometimes it really impeded workflow and progress!

Semper Fi.

i still use 3270 man, lol

[psyct1]

did i tell you not to buy something i don't like ?

nope, you sure didn't...

[zero7404]

back on topic, all 8000 and 9000 series bb's have come out of the box with ability to tether, mms.....iphone and iphone 3G have not. out of the box comparisons, i would say the 8900 over the 3GS, but the 3GS now comes with a built-in compass.....i dunno whether to jump up and down over that feature or not.

[psyct1]

back on topic, all 8000 and 9000 series bb's have come out of the box with ability to tether, mms.....iphone and iphone 3G have not. out of the box comparisons, i would say the 8900 over the 3GS, but the 3GS now comes with a built-in compass.....i dunno whether to jump up and down over that feature or not.

the devices may come out of the box with the features BUT, you still need to "pay" for the service (tethering), and setting up your computer to do so may be an issue for someone that doesn't really know what they're doing...

BTW, many iPhone 3G/3Gs owners have tethering working right now, simple OTA download...

i have NO IDEA, why at&t screwed the pooch with not having MMS/Tethering working by now... something about needing to provision all iPhone accounts to enable MMS... THAT my friend is gay but, i don't use MMS or tethering that often so, i can wait until the "late summer" release

EDIT: zero, got off to a bad start... can we shake hands now? lol

[ifonline]

The compass is a neat idea, but currently I just don't feel anything beyond "cool, it has a compass."

[ifonline]

BTW, many iPhone 3G/3Gs owners have tethering working right now, simple OTA download...

Jailbreaking aside, the iPhones have not been able to do this. I'm sure you could hack just about any phone to do just about anything, but if we keep the discussion to native capabilities, the iPhone has been lacking since the beginning.

It is improving, and the iPhone 3GS does have so very nice new features, but, for me at least, I won't go back to the iPhone until they add a keyboard. With the Pre out (for however long Palm can stick around - stocks are slipping again), it got me thinking that I would love to see a Palm Pre like device on the outside with the iPhone 3GS insides.

[psyct1]

iPhone 3G/3Gs
Pros:
-better internet browsing
-THOUSANDS of apps for almost anything you can imagine
-larger screen
-entertainment value (if its important to you)
-visual voicemail
-compass+maps (3Gs only); really only good when used together, lol
-iPod
-no need for additional storage
-ability to jailbreak to open many more options including but not limited to; themes, ringtone changing via SSH, etc...
-MUCH faster startup times
Cons:
-push email works only for MobileMe & Yahoo (WTF GOOGLE!!)
-cannot upgrade battery
-resolution
-contact sync is NO WHERE NEAR blackberry's... specifically if you delete a contact on the iPhone, and sync it with iTunes it reappears on he iPhone... not like in BB DM where you can choose which device has priority on conflicts
-cannot run more than one app at a time (jailbreak fixes this however, kills battery quicker)
-NO GPS apps available yet
-no hardware keyboard
-cannot use MP3's as ringtones (must be in .m4r format)
-cannot change SMS ringtones (jailbreak fixes this with SSH)
-no LED status indicator
-no MMS/tethering until "late summer" (some people found a "workaround" just google it)


the above is just my opinion

[psyct1]

Jailbreaking aside, the iPhones have not been able to do this.

i see why you would say that but, you don't need to jailbreak it to get it to work... just have to do what WE had to do on the BB's changing the APN settings

[psyct1]

just want to set the record straight that, i love both devices... i still have my old 8310 curve, tried to sell it but, don't have the heart to.

[zero7404]

EDIT: zero, got off to a bad start... can we shake hands now? lol

one of those days that i woke up aggravated, down, agitated, so i am sorry if you took anything the wrong way

shure, y not.

like i said, all that apple dazzle won't shine for long....so u know what to expect.

btw....


yes sir, if only the corps would switch to Mac OS vice Shitdows

u didn't need to refer to windows that way, it also starts a flame for those that like the platform.

[psyct1]

u didn't need to refer to windows that way, it also starts a flame for those that like the platform.

lol, i apologize BUT, if you had any idea what version of Windows are running on most computer's you'd cry... MOST are still on 2000 or Millenium

we are JUST NOW being updated to XP...

[zero7404]

As much as people refuse to accept it, there are valid reasons (at least as I understand it) that the iPod Touch is a paid upgrade while the iPhone is a free upgrade. It all stems from the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which itself stems from the fall of Enron.

This is not unique to the iPod Touch. There are other Apple products that fall under the S/O Act, as well as products from other manufacturers.

maybe a more constructive way to look at it can be:

assume you spend $ 200 on the device

assume you will be keeping it long enough for apple to release 'a few' OS upgrades (i would say about 3)....and assume you go for these upgrades.

you've paid 30 bucks @<hidden> retail and 200 for the device. you will never get back 230 bucks, as a matter of fact, most ebayers/etc. won't even consider the money you put into OS upgrades, and likely you might get 125-150 for it (conditionally)....

so to apple, you are worth a lot more than the device. and trust me, they will release newer and better in a fast-forwarded fashion. so, on a personal level, fundamentally it's a bunch of plastic metal and glass that keeps appreciating for them, but depreciating for you.

[ifonline]

I remember those days of old, tired computers in the Corps!

As for Apple, I love the desktop/laptop machines and Leopard (soon to be Snow Leopard). Never been happier with my computers, and this is coming from 30+ years on Windows machines, all the way back to MS-DOS. I'm not so much enamored by the iPhone (and to some degree, the iPod Touch) however. But, I do miss some of the apps on the iPhone. The apps were the hardest thing to let go of.

[zero7404]

we are JUST NOW being updated to XP...

wow, my condolences on that dude....

i find my OS flavors, tweak them to run better than everyone else's and call it a year. currently on vista x64 and ubuntu 8.10. after tweaks, my current hardware and software will last me 5 more years. others that hardly bother with maintenance wind up with an unusable machine after just 3 years (like my wife....ha ha).

then again, i don't download crapware or maneuver my machine directly into a hackers line of fire.....

[ifonline]

maybe a more constructive way to look at it can be:

[SNIP]

so to apple, you are worth a lot more than the device. and trust me, they will release newer and better in a fast-forwarded fashion. so, on a personal level, fundamentally it's a bunch of plastic metal and glass that keeps appreciating for them, but depreciating for you.

Very true, but then virtually everything we buy depreciates over time, so I don't sweat it. Apple is not forcing me to upgrade, and the argument that the device will depreciate doesn't mean that Apple (or any other manufacturer) should discount the hardware to make my investment in that hardware better for me.

Apple is no different than HP or Dell or Microsoft or any other technology manufacturer in that they are always releasing newer, better products. That's the cycle of technology. I have known this long ago, and I still desire to buy into new products because I want them, and I am interested in them. The fact that there will be a newer device next month or next year doesn't stop me from buying now.

I use Adobe products for graphics work, including Photoshop. I am on CS4, and it cost me quite a bit to move from CS3. I know how this works... Adobe will release a few point updates to CS4, and then they will release CS5 next year at a cost close to $1000 to upgrade. I don't have to upgrade as Adobe doesn't force me to. I chose to upgrade because Adobe's products are tools for me. Would I love it to be cheaper? Sure. Do I feel slighted because it isn't? No. As I said, no one is forcing me to upgrade CS4, as Apple isn't forcing me to upgrade the iPod Touch.

[ifonline]

my current hardware and software will last me 5 more years. others that hardly bother with maintenance wind up with an unusable machine after just 3 years (like my wife....ha ha).

I have a Mac Pro at home (what I'm using now) that is two years old. It will be getting Snow Leopard when that is released, and I fully expect it to last me many years to come. I have a Mac Pro at work that will also get Snow Leopard. It will also last me many years to come. I also have a MacBook Pro that will last for a long time, and yep... Snow Leopard on that one as well.

One thing I love about the Mac OS is the cost... I get 5 legally licensed copies of OS X for $179. With the promotion, however, I will get 5 legally licensed copies for $49. Wow! I had always wished that Microsoft would do that with Windows. Well, that and stop releasing 5 different versions of the same OS. That's another beauty, for me, with OS X... there's only one desktop version and one server version. Very simple.

All I am saying is that Macs are no less capable of long-term use that Windows machines, and that for me, Mac machines are my choice of hardware. They suit me perfectly.

[zero7404]

....
One thing I love about the Mac OS is the cost... ....

All I am saying is that Macs are no less capable of long-term use that Windows machines, and that for me, Mac machines are my choice of hardware. They suit me perfectly.

point well taken. maybe over a stretch of say 5 - 7 years both platforms, when used wisely balance out close to the same money-wise.

macs are suited towards you since you use them for your work, so it's a natural extension for you to use them at home i guess....

i speak from personal experience where i once decided to dive into the mac world myself, abandoning windows altogether. after about 1 year of use, metaphorically speaking, the idea and technology got yellowed (just like the outside casing). fanboy comments to my problems/questions with itunes had a large part to play in my disgruntlement with the platform.

this was back in 04 when i bought a 20" imac. altho i was somewhat surprised that the platform's hardware was actually upgradable to a reasonable extent. but then there were apple 'restrictions' that led to a severe lack in software selection.

anyhow, i'm looking to depart from windows all together. i am really impressed at how much i can do in ubuntu, for free. so i refuse to wear the sucker shirt and keep paying for maintenance software like antivirus/firewalls.

but i'm hindered by 'restrictions' that make certain things i need to do (like update/backup my blackberry) hard to do or virtually non-existent in the newer linux platforms. so, catch 22

[ifonline]

When I first decided to switch to the Mac, I actually took back my first machine (an iMac) after a week. I was frustrated after using Windows for so long. For whatever reason I tried again, but went with the Mac Pro that I am now using at home, and that time my experience was much better. It wasn't so much the hardware differences, but just the way in which I approached the switch.

It wasn't particularly easy to switch, and my father is an example of how I was before I did. He refuses to even accept that the Mac is a viable platform. Of course, he is 76, so he has been using Windows/DOS machines much, much longer than I have. Heck, he was a programmer in Fortran and COBOL for a while, and I still have, somewhere, a framed circuitboard from the huge room-size mainframe that he worked with.

Speaking of fanboys... I hate being called a fanboy just because I use and enjoy Mac machines (and I'm not suggesting that you are calling me that, I'm just speaking in generalities). However, I also hate those that are Apple apologists. Apple is not a perfect company by any stretch of the imagination. They make plenty of mistakes, and have some pretty draconian ways. Realistically, they are no better and no worse that Microsoft, although each company has its own unique set of problems.

I have dabbled with Ubuntu a bit, but as you said, I find it difficult to consider it a workable solution at present with the lack of significant mainstream support. Strange, as I remember Dell (I think it was Dell) was offering Ubuntu (or something similar) on some of their machines... is that even still going on? That could be a good boost to that OS.

[psyct1]

You are right about apple releasing their new cmputers too close together, I bought my MacBook pro last February, only for them to come out with a new version the following month, then in September they came out withthe unibody, gay!!!

But as far as the OS's go, only the major updates, ie leopard to snow leopard cost money.

One thing I love about the mac OS is BOOTCAMP, due to my S4 you mentioned earlier, the diagnostic software they release for owners only run on windows. I have win xp on bootcamp and used blackviper.org to turn off non-essential windows tools and win xp runs faster on my MacBook pro then a friends brand new hp
machine he "downgraded" to xp on....

It's a never ending battle trying to keep up with technology, lol

[zero7404]

....he was a programmer in Fortran and COBOL....

i know Fortran, i'm an engineer and learned fortran 77 when i went to college. altho the language has progressed so far and gotten so advanced that i'd have to take another course just to learn the newer flavor thoroughly (fortran 2003 i think), i still can write fortran 77 programs in ubuntu. the platform is open-source, the compiler is readily available and installable, and it's actually fun writing silly little programs to calculate and make statements.

in windows, i can only find compilers that come with paid software....

Speaking of fanboys... I hate being called a fanboy just because I use and enjoy Mac machines (and I'm not suggesting that you are calling me that, I'm just speaking in generalities). However, I also hate those that are Apple apologists. Apple is not a perfect company by any stretch of the imagination. They make plenty of mistakes, and have some pretty draconian ways. Realistically, they are no better and no worse that Microsoft, although each company has its own unique set of problems.

the 'fanboys' i am referring to, a simple and very similar scenario would be something like you going onto the apple forums and asking how to go about burning an audio cd into itunes (let's say you didn't know and itunes was relatively new). and responses come up, one of them being: "Don't Steal Music !!"......that actually happened to me on apple forums, and i thought to myself W-T-F ?!? don't steal what ? my own audio CDs ? Geez....

I have dabbled with Ubuntu a bit, but as you said, I find it difficult to consider it a workable solution at present with the lack of significant mainstream support. Strange, as I remember Dell (I think it was Dell) was offering Ubuntu (or something similar) on some of their machines... is that even still going on? That could be a good boost to that OS.

altho ubuntu and other flavors of linux are not on the cutting edge, they are pretty darn close. the reasons they have not been popular with most home users is because the code needed to decrypt or decode modern dvd and blu-ray movies rests in the hands of studios that would rather die than give the source-code out. therefore, getting dvd's to play back was a problem back in the early years of ubuntu. eventually the encryption was cracked and now dvd playback is no problem (yet frame rates and resolution requires a little work to get everything smooth and fluid during playback). again in recent years linux distros are not able to play blu-ray discs easily because of the new encryptions and standards. but once managed copy hits the market, i'm sure someone will figure out how to play blu-ray movies in linux.

this logic also applies to other areas of the OS with other 'proprietary' source-code, such as NVIDIA's video drivers, etc, etc....

[zero7404]

You are right about apple releasing their new cmputers too close together, I bought my MacBook pro last February, only for them to come out with a new version the following month, then in September they came out withthe unibody, gay!!!

But as far as the OS's go, only the major updates, ie leopard to snow leopard cost money.

One thing I love about the mac OS is BOOTCAMP, due to my S4 you mentioned earlier, the diagnostic software they release for owners only run on windows. I have win xp on bootcamp and used blackviper.org to turn off non-essential windows tools and win xp runs faster on my MacBook pro then a friends brand new hp
machine he "downgraded" to xp on....

It's a never ending battle trying to keep up with technology, lol

boot camp i hear is cool. but most linux desktop platforms come with GRUB, which i configured the way i like so that i can autostart any OS i have installed upon bootup.....GRUB can also be installed stand-alone, so you can probably replace bootcamp with GRUB and install the real thing (XP) on a clean partition on your system. that way you don't deal with the virtual machine style lags and hickups and limitations in hardware support.

so i first had windows vista running on my system, then i partitioned up and installed ubuntu too. even got both OS's to play nice with my storage HDD, so i only need to have one copy of a music file or document or movie and grab it from the drive no matter which OS i'm loaded in.

since i shelled probably about $ 500-700 to date in windows software just for my current machine (which is only 1 yr old), but able to get ubuntu to do 85% of what i do in windows for free and not have to worry about viruses or firewall software, then y should i keep paying to use windows....?

in the long run it makes sense since the lifetime windows user probably must spend close to $ 1000 over 5-7 years just for antivirus software.....that's almost a brand new set of tires for my weekender, u know ?

[ifonline]

altho ubuntu and other flavors of linux are not on the cutting edge, they are pretty darn close. the reasons they have not been popular with most home users is because the code needed to decrypt or decode modern dvd and blu-ray movies rests in the hands of studios that would rather die than give the source-code out. therefore, getting dvd's to play back was a problem back in the early years of ubuntu. eventually the encryption was cracked and now dvd playback is no problem (yet frame rates and resolution requires a little work to get everything smooth and fluid during playback). again in recent years linux distros are not able to play blu-ray discs easily because of the new encryptions and standards. but once managed copy hits the market, i'm sure someone will figure out how to play blu-ray movies in linux.

This is the root of why I just can't use Linux in any serious capacity. Linux relies too much on random people figuring things out or cracking codes. And then, it still requires me as the end user to tweak and modify things just to get them working. I don't want my operating system to be that flakey, or that easily foiled, or that slow to develop. This is one of the big reasons I switched to Mac. I haven't thought about tweaking my computer in two years, and it is very liberating.

I understand that people enjoy that sort of thing, and therefore Linux is a serious options for them, and I wouldn't knock that. It's just not for me for the same reasons it is perfect for someone else.

[hakaida442]

adding appointments in the iphone sucks too. i played around with a friend's 3GS and it wouldn't add recurring appointments like the bb does. For instance, I go to the chiropractor on tuesdays, thursdays, and fridays every week. BB lets me do this. with the iphone i would have to add recurring appointments for each day individually. i really do like that the iphone shows folders for yahoo mail and the browser is light years ahead of the bb browser. i like both phones, but the bb still wins out for my needs.

[audit]

IMHO, the iPhone 3GS isn't that bad. I got one for fathers day after my Bold bit the dust and had it syncing with my Exchange server before I left the store. Now on to the things I miss.

1. Different tones for emails.
2. SMS tones REALLY suck.
3. physical keyboard

That's really the only things I miss. I've been able to get the ringtones I want with a simple 30 second hack to the tones I wanted and syncing them to iTunes, I will need to jailbreak for the SMS tones that also are used for email tones. I'm getting used to the keyboard and landscape mode makes it easier for me.

I never tether and rarely used MMS since I have email, people email me pictures if I want them. Other then that I'm happy with the apps that I run and haven't paid for any of them, memory is very good as in zero leaks.

Just my .002

[ArgonNJ]

IMHO, the iPhone 3GS isn't that bad. I got one for fathers day after my Bold bit the dust and had it syncing with my Exchange server before I left the store. Now on to the things I miss.

1. Different tones for emails.
2. SMS tones REALLY suck.
3. physical keyboard

Agree with 1 and 2 and would add BBM to the list. Other then that I am very happy with my 3GS.

[psyct1]

boot camp i hear is cool. but most linux desktop platforms come with GRUB, which i configured the way i like so that i can autostart any OS i have installed upon bootup.....GRUB can also be installed stand-alone, so you can probably replace bootcamp with GRUB and install the real thing (XP) on a clean partition on your system. that way you don't deal with the virtual machine style lags and hickups and limitations in hardware support.

so i first had windows vista running on my system, then i partitioned up and installed ubuntu too. even got both OS's to play nice with my storage HDD, so i only need to have one copy of a music file or document or movie and grab it from the drive no matter which OS i'm loaded in.

since i shelled probably about $ 500-700 to date in windows software just for my current machine (which is only 1 yr old), but able to get ubuntu to do 85% of what i do in windows for free and not have to worry about viruses or firewall software, then y should i keep paying to use windows....?

in the long run it makes sense since the lifetime windows user probably must spend close to $ 1000 over 5-7 years just for antivirus software.....that's almost a brand new set of tires for my weekender, u know ?

Bootcamp does essentially the same thing you describe with Grub. You cannot have more than on OS booted at the same time but, there is no lag at all... the only issue i have with bootcamp is windows cannot read Mac partitioned drives but, with a program called MacDrive that is corrected... i just read online that Snow Leopard's version of bootcamp will come with the windows HFS+ drivers to read Mac partitions...

Oh, and Mac cannot read NTFS drives without aftermarket software :( but, the software is free so, its all gravy... lol

I've been thinking about messing around with linux a bit, i just don't know ANYTHING about it...

[dsconnell]

I've been a BB user/supporter since 2004. I started with a 7100t, then a 8700, then a 8320 and finally a 9000. I agree, it totally comes down to user preference. Personally, after using the 9000 for a month and the trying the iPhone, I won't go back to the BB. I love my iPhone and for my uses, the iPhone is far superior. Battery life is not very good but the browser is far superior. I've enjoyed these forums for the past 5 years and I'll continue to stop by, but for me and my uses, the iPhone is far superior. IMHO

[clumpymold]

Wirelessly posted

I've been a BB user/supporter since 2004. I started with a 7100t, then a 8700, then a 8320 and finally a 9000. I agree, it totally comes down to user preference. Personally, after using the 9000 for a month and the trying the iPhone, I won't go back to the BB. I love my iPhone and for my uses, the iPhone is far superior. Battery life is not very good but the browser is far superior. I've enjoyed these forums for the past 5 years and I'll continue to stop by, but for me and my uses, the iPhone is far superior. IMHO

And what are those uses?

[hakaida442]

i'm a realtor and have the bb bluetooth software that can open lockboxes when showing homes. apple doesnt have an app for that yet. iphone is a good phone, but still isn't right for me.

[ArgonNJ]

i'm a realtor and have the bb bluetooth software that can open lockboxes when showing homes. apple doesnt have an app for that yet. iphone is a good phone, but still isn't right for me.
Which is one of the main reasons on which device one should buy. One size does not fit all.

[jbachandouris]

Up until recently I have had WiMo devices, with the exception of the Storm. I bought a VZW Tour on launch day, but I had been toying with the idea of the iPhone 3GS. I thought if I owned both, that would help me decide which one was better for me. Boy was I wrong. In a ideal world, I would keep both. I have about 8 more days to decide which one to keep. I have had VZW for 9 years and have 3 lines of service. I plan to close one line if I decide on the iPhone.

The media (video/internet) on the Tour is pretty painful. Emails arrive within minutes of each other. Today, the iPhone got every email first. Battery life is so so on the iPhone.

Since I have a corporate discount no matter which one I keep doesn't make the decision any easier.

Reality is, I don't really 'need' a smartphone, so either device works. The biggest hindrance is my loyalty to VZW. 9 years is a long time.