[TechCrunch] RIM: You’re Done Here

[penguin3107]

RIM: You're Done Here (http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/22/rim-youre-done-here/)

[Cooper]

whatever.

Even if RIM died in the smartphone (oh wait, soon to be known as the 'SuperPhone') market, they have enough holdings like QNX that RIM would cut their workforce in half and just do something else.

It's Mike's baby, his life, his everything... One way or another, I think RIM will always be around.

Hell look at the transition IBM has taken. they sold off their hard drive division, they sold their computer and laptop division.

Yeah IBM has like 50,000 patents, has been around for 100 years and to this day does ground breaking computing R&D, but they had an entire market die on them so they split it off.

[hrbuckley]

Putting June 22 2012 in my calender, check if RIM is around.

[fourstringfuror]

Oh, well if John Biggs says so, it must be true.

Like I said yesterday, RIM is a convenient target right now. Everyone loves to kick a man when he's down. It's easy. It's fun. Everyone's doing it.

It's getting old.

[fourstringfuror]

Putting June 22 2012 in my calender, check if RIM is around.

Looking forward to using BB products for many years to come.

[hrbuckley]

Looking forward to using BB products for many years to come.

Me too, but it is so easy to predict something a year hence because everybody forgets the prediction by that time.

[Thiego-uk]

Right now, RIM must be working to develop QNX to the smartphones and bring it on start of 2012 Q1 not longer than Q2. If they dont get it, they will be out of smartphone market by 2013.
Im sure if the get QNX to their smartphone it will be a new era for RIM, a very profitable one! Also, happy customers!!! :)

[jsconyers]

Right now, RIM must be working to develop QNX to the smartphones and bring it on start of 2012 Q1 not longer than Q2. If they dont get it, they will be out of smartphone market by 2013.
Im sure if the get QNX to their smartphone it will be a new era for RIM, a very profitable one! Also, happy customers!!! :)

I think it is too little too late at that point. By then iOS5 will be out, and Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich) will be out as well. They are already dominating the smartphone market and RIM will have too much catching up to do.

[ifonline]

...iOS5 will be out...

...and iOS 6 will be well under way.

[donovanj]

Oh, well if John Biggs says so, it must be true.

Like I said yesterday, RIM is a convenient target right now. Everyone loves to kick a man when he's down. It's easy. It's fun. Everyone's doing it.

It's getting old.

Unfortunately, Palm and Nokia were also convenient targets but they have turned things around... oh wait...

.

[Daltonirl]

I agree with jsconyers. I think that by having a current OS out right now in BB 6 and releasing information on two more yet-to-come OS's, they're essentially shooting of their flairs for rescue. Basically they have BB 6 right now on select devices, they're releasing new phone later this summer on BB 7 and are trying to get people hyped up on QNX which isn't even set to launch within the next 6 months. That is a clear sign of desperation; if they weren't in the situation that they are then releasing so much info on what's-to-come software AND hardware would be marketing suicide.

[wabbit]

zomg a business class phone is doomed from the general public phones..... news at 11.....

[tsac]

Convincing argument. Yes the large companies who use still support the BB will be forced to look at other devices if they dont keep up with the demand of internal users who in reality all they care about is FB and texting. Security is still a big concern and if a big company gets hacked via a cell phone that essentially offers limited security you will see a big demand to "lock" up the other OSs. The game is not over till its over so we all wait. Apple just announced the 5 phone and to me its all about market shares. When the users finally figure out the changes are more about selling and not about real updates or something really necessary to need a new phone they will start balking at the latest toy. Cell phones have gone from making calls to using them for data use so all the manufacturers are struggling to keep up but not having it easy. Maybe an implant directly into the brain will solve all the problems.

[mobifree]

I hate to say it, but RIM might be on its last legs and I'm a life long Blackberry user.
They're just too late to the party the last 5-6 years.

[hrbuckley]

People keep saying this. But if you look closely at tech history, it is not comming first, or even quickly after others that is the deciding factor. Apple was "late to the party" compared to RIM with a smart phone, Android is even later. The iPad was certainly not the first tablet, but certainly put tablets on the map for the average user. This is especially true in a field where the installed base turns over every couple of years.

No, the real question is can RIM come up with something that will capture the upgraders when they decide it is time to move on from whatever they are using now, and can they last until that time. And as Tsac points out, if there are a couple of major security issues related to smart phone security on the scale of Sony, people may re-think their requirements.

[JSanders]

RIM has no debt, and is still increasing profits each quarter of the same quarter last year. They're not out yet.

[Thiego-uk]

People keep saying this. But if you look closely at tech history, it is not comming first, or even quickly after others that is the deciding factor. Apple was "late to the party" compared to RIM with a smart phone, Android is even later. The iPad was certainly not the first tablet, but certainly put tablets on the map for the average user. This is especially true in a field where the installed base turns over every couple of years.

No, the real question is can RIM come up with something that will capture the upgraders when they decide it is time to move on from whatever they are using now, and can they last until that time. And as Tsac points out, if there are a couple of major security issues related to smart phone security on the scale of Sony, people may re-think their requirements.

+1
True facts!

[David Haddad]

whatever.

Even if RIM died in the smartphone (oh wait, soon to be known as the 'SuperPhone') market, they have enough holdings like QNX that RIM would cut their workforce in half and just do something else.

It's Mike's baby, his life, his everything... One way or another, I think RIM will always be around.

Hell look at the transition IBM has taken. they sold off their hard drive division, they sold their computer and laptop division.

Yeah IBM has like 50,000 patents, has been around for 100 years and to this day does ground breaking computing R&D, but they had an entire market die on them so they split it off.
So you're saying that RIM is going to sell off their phone division and start to make video games?

[tsac]

So you're saying that RIM is going to sell off their phone division and start to make video games?

where did you get video games in the reply?

[David Haddad]

Would it have helped if I used a sarcasm emoticon :)? Using IBM is IMO not a good example as it's exceptionally rare that a company can reinvent themselves in that way, and they had the means to do it in ways that RIM can't even dream of, hence my quip about video games. Their CORE business is cell phones and the software that goes with them. I suspect it would be a little bit hard for them to sell that off and just magically reinvent themselves.

It seems to me that the type of denial that is in this thread and so many others is what also took place at RIM internally and got them in the dire situation they currently find themselves in, and have no doubt it is dire. Not dire as in "they are going out of business in 6 months" but as in "they have about 6 months to turn it around". The moment the iphone came out it should have been a huge kick in the pants for them but instead they either didn't take it seriously or didn't have the skill and resources to respond.

For the life of me I will never understand why people let their like for a product affect their view of reality. Good analysts don't which is why no one is recommending a buy any more. I do believe RIM can still turn it around but it desperately needs to happen soon.

The Techcrunch article is spot on albeit with a little bit of hyperbole, but not too much.

[ArgonNJ]

Article seemed pretty spot on to me. Not surprised the fanboys here can't see it.

[David Haddad]

Article seemed pretty spot on to me. Not surprised the fanboys here can't see it.
You know what I think said it all? When they brought the Playbook out and it couldn't do email!!! If that didn't speak to a level of desperation and ridiculously bad mismanagement that is so silly it's almost hard to put into words I don't know what does.

When I saw that I could almost hear their internal justification - "this is no different than Apple bringing out the iPad without multitasking and adding it later with an upgrade". But what it was actually like is if Apple had brought out the iPad and it couldn't play iTunes content.

I mean come on, what is THE thing you think about when you think of BB - great email! So suddenly they bring out their very first product based on a new OS and a new paradigm and it can't do email! It made them look hilariously bad.

I really do hope the next gen phones are exciting. I think they could be right back in the ball game if they could bring out a great device with a high rez screen and a sleek OS that does everything else they do so great. I'd consider moving back. I waited 3 years to move away from my Bold. I've decided to move to about a 1-year turnaround on phones they way they are improving right now so I can see myself moving back, if not to a BB, to the next greatest Android or iPhone.

[hrbuckley]

I've been doing email on my PlayBook since the day it came out. True, through the bridge, but before that I had an iPad that did email, and I found it so anoying that it wouldn't sync with my Imap server the way the Blackberry did that I deleted my email accounts from it.

I understand that a lot of people don't appreciate the way the PlayBook does email now, and I understand that it may have sold a little better if it had stand alone email and PIM clients on launch day. The truth is I wouldn't use them. I know it makes the PlayBook less useful (or even useless) if you don't already have a BlackBerry. But if you look at their product line, that is the way it is. It is (although I hate the term) an echosystem. A BlackBerry without any data plan is somewhat useful, one with a regular data plan slightly more, with BIS very useful, and with BES the best mobile business communications device available. The PlayBook as an addition to a BlackBerry with BES is not, IMHO, not a lesser device for the lack of stand alone email and PIM.

There are a lot of things I would like to see RIM add to the PlayBook on the next update, but standalone email and PIM aren't on the list.

[jordanmike]

i have faith on RIM, cause nobody else is better than RIM on pushmail and the communication safety

[David Haddad]

i have faith on RIM, cause nobody else is better than RIM on pushmail and the communication safety
I think one of the problems is that as users we often base our opinions on old data and don't really even appreciate what other devices are doing unless we own them. One of the reasons I held off on moving away from BB for so long was that when I got my first BB it was the only device that could do push email and even do it on multiple accounts. I actually remember when other devices could only send email at 15 or 30 minute intervals.

I can assure you that on my Android device I have instant "push", I receive email within seconds of hitting the send button. I even kept my BB activated when I bought the Android because I did not know if I would stick with it. I got my email on the Android just as fast as on the BB.

Not only that, I can access multiple exchange accounts on my Android, and I have functionality (using touchdown by nitro) that isn't even available on BB such as categories for *everything*.

Security is a non-issue, iPhones and android are being rolled out at the enterprise level all over the place. I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone here to switch, I'm just telling you that the areas where RIM used to have a big advantage the other players are now close enough that it's a non-issue.

[Magnafan]

Just to add a bit of spice to the stew:

I was certain ten years ago that Apple was DOA.

Also, you must know the stock players' game. Bad-mouth a company publically while you buy up all the stock the weak-kneed are selling. Remember, for every share that's sold, a share is bought.

I have to admit that I could be seduced by the sexy screens of the Android and iPad. But, when I see the $$$ of a data plan, I quickly lose interest. I think the BB data compression keeps data costs reasonable. I might be wrong, though. Priority one in business is the bottom line. If BB can keep their bottom-line $$$ advantage for business and their BBM security, they could pull through.

[applauz]

I highly believe that RIM will be sold in pieces.

[David Haddad]

I was certain ten years ago that Apple was DOA.
Apple pulled off the most amazing corporate turnaround in the history of business. For every Apple there are 1000 Palms.

[tsac]

OUCH! More comments

Employee rips RIM bosses in open letter - Computerworld (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9218069/Employee_rips_RIM_bosses_in_open_letter)

[David Haddad]

The full letter was actually quite good, that article doesn't do it justice, and it was supposedly verified it was from a high level employee. Not really a fan of someone that would do that, but it was interesting. RIM actually later issued a response to it, but it was just fluff, talking about how "excited they are about continuing to bring out great new products that people love", no response whatsoever to the actual letter. IMO it would have been better to just ignore it, the response actually sort of confirmed what the letter said re: heads in sand.

[tsac]

A lot of big companys have lost the understanding on what their business is. The MBA's they hired years ago are now in control and the only thing they understand is bottom line. Innovation cost money and delaying saves money but as it was pointed out by others, they loose the customer and market share. The next thing they will do is look to sell parts or in some cases even stop a product. They dont understand the market just the stock price. It's like some mobile carriers that have poor networks. Keep up the claims and all will go away. Notice the various marketing on dropped calls has disappeared but the push to convince customers that 4G is working well is nice and strong.