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View Full Version : IMAP account vs BES?


Spike_66
06-01-2006, 09:03 PM
My company does not have a BES and our ISP put me on an IMAP account so that I should be able to view the folder from Outlook 2003 on my BB 8700c, but Cingular can't seem to tell me how to turn on the viewing of the IMAP folders. Can anyone help? I work for a small company so buying a server or BES doesn't make sense.

Thanks

Hunter5117
06-01-2006, 09:11 PM
Sorry, no can do. BB doesn't do IMAP. I've only had mine for a week and was very surprised (as I am sure you are) to find this out. The BIS from Cingular (if it is the same as T-Mobile which has been upgraded to 2.0) can pull email from your your IMAP server and push it to your BB, but you won't get full folder syncing like you would with an IMAP client on a Palm or PPC. You need to sign up for BES in order to get some level of folder syncing, still not as good as IMAP from what my T-Mo reps have described to me.

I have been able to come up with a set of rules in Outlook (actually Entourage on my Mac) to BCC all my sent items from my computer to the BB and not clutter up my Sent Items folder too bad. And anything you send from the BB should wind up in your Sent Items on your computer if you are set up with IMAP on them.

Hope this helps. Others more familiar with Cingular can likely add more.

whsbuss
06-01-2006, 09:21 PM
Sorry, no can do. BB doesn't do IMAP. I've only had mine for a week and was very surprised (as I am sure you are) to find this out. The BIS from Cingular (if it is the same as T-Mobile which has been upgraded to 2.0) can pull email from your your IMAP server and push it to your BB, but you won't get full folder syncing like you would with an IMAP client on a Palm or PPC. You need to sign up for BES in order to get some level of folder syncing, still not as good as IMAP from what my T-Mo reps have described to me.

I have been able to come up with a set of rules in Outlook (actually Entourage on my Mac) to BCC all my sent items from my computer to the BB and not clutter up my Sent Items folder too bad. And anything you send from the BB should wind up in your Sent Items on your computer if you are set up with IMAP on them.

Hope this helps. Others more familiar with Cingular can likely add more.

BIS 2.0 configured for IMAP will place sent BB emails to the Sent folder and deleted message to the Deleted folder. It will sync the Inbox (read/unread) but no support for sub-folders - including message filing.

DrKeith
06-02-2006, 04:18 AM
If you need to have folder synching, then you should consider signing up for a hosted BES with an exchange server. It will not be exactly like IMAP, but will allow synching of your email, tasks,etc.

BERDucky
06-02-2006, 07:39 AM
Sorry, no can do. BB doesn't do IMAP.

not true - BIS does suppoprt IMAP in 1.8 and 2.0 - normal and using SSL
as mentioned above, 2.0 syncs read/unread status; sent emails and deleted ones
1.8. does not

takeshi
06-02-2006, 08:09 AM
If you need to have folder synching, then you should consider signing up for a hosted BES with an exchange server. It will not be exactly like IMAP, but will allow synching of your email, tasks,etc.
You can access the Exchange mailbox folder structure and move email to folders with BES but Blackberries do not sync email (regardless of whether you're on BIS, BES or both). They are push email devices and there is a distinct difference. You won't have access to any email that you don't have forwarded to the device.

Hunter5117
06-02-2006, 09:47 AM
not true - BIS does suppoprt IMAP in 1.8 and 2.0 - normal and using SSL
as mentioned above, 2.0 syncs read/unread status; sent emails and deleted ones
1.8. does not

I'll pass on commenting on BIS 1.8 because I have never used it and I understand it did offer some level of folder syncing. However, I have spent many hours researching this on BIS 2.0 and I will stand by my statement that BB BIS 2.0 does not do IMAP.

Yes, you can send or delete from your BB and the BIS server will pass that to the appropriate IMAP mail server which will then propagate that to your other IMAP clients on your laptop, etc. However, try generating actions from your laptop IMAP client, either send an item or delete an item and your BB just sits there oblivious to what just happened. Sorry, that is not IMAP. Going from the BB to the IMAP server is just sending email, not doing IMAP.

BERDucky
06-02-2006, 10:28 AM
my apologies - i thought you ment you couldn't add an IMAP account using BIS

BIS reconciliation is only 1 way - handheld to server in BIS 2.0; handheld to BIS inbox in 1.8
so if you send an email or delete from any account (pop; imap; exchange; domino) it will not show the change on the handheld

Hunter5117
06-02-2006, 02:30 PM
Sorry, I had a rough couple of days earlier this week when I got hit up-side the head with the knowledge that BB doesn't do IMAP, I likely could have been a little more diplomatic in my response. I've only had my 8700g for a little over a week and can still return it up until next Tuesday. I'm 95% sure I'm going to keep it, my other option would be upgrade my Treo 600 to a 650 or 700p but considerably more $$ since T-mo doesn't offer either of those and I would have to change carriers if I wanted the 700. The BB is a very solid device and I may eventually decide to spend the $$ and get a hosted BES server though my email provider.

code7700
06-03-2006, 02:13 PM
BIS 2.0 configured for IMAP will place sent BB emails to the Sent folder and deleted message to the Deleted folder. It will sync the Inbox (read/unread) but no support for sub-folders - including message filing.

I have TMO (8700g) and use both BES (for work) and BIS (for personal). Works like a charm. However, here is the odd part. For BIS, it will sync my inbox (and read/unread status) but it doesn't seem to deposit sent messages in "sent" or move deleted messages to "deleted" as you stated above. In fact, I have to use the auto-BCC and a set of rules on my IMAP server. Any ideas on that one? Is TMO using 1.8 vs. 2.0? Thank you.

whsbuss
06-03-2006, 06:53 PM
I have TMO (8700g) and use both BES (for work) and BIS (for personal). Works like a charm. However, here is the odd part. For BIS, it will sync my inbox (and read/unread status) but it doesn't seem to deposit sent messages in "sent" or move deleted messages to "deleted" as you stated above. In fact, I have to use the auto-BCC and a set of rules on my IMAP server. Any ideas on that one? Is TMO using 1.8 vs. 2.0? Thank you.

In the advanced options, when setting up an IMAP account in the BIS, be sure you select IMAP and not POP. Also, be sure the folder is Sent and Deleted (with capital letter) on the IMAP server.

bobdole42
06-03-2006, 07:40 PM
I'm reading two different things - some poeple say the Berry does move deleted and sent items, some say it doesn't. What is the bottom line? I'm probably just being stupid and not understanding, so I would be very grateful to anyone who can clear this up. I don't need full exchange-like folder sync, but I do need the Berry to move the sent and deleted items. Also (and this is probably another dumb question) - will setting the Berry up with my imap account (fastmail.fm) give me push?

Thanks for the help. I've used a Treo 650 with Chatter (the 650's only saving grace, IMHO) for over a year and am ready to switch.

code7700
06-04-2006, 01:16 AM
In the advanced options, when setting up an IMAP account in the BIS, be sure you select IMAP and not POP. Also, be sure the folder is Sent and Deleted (with capital letter) on the IMAP server.

I did select IMAP, that much I know. :) But I didn't know it was name/case specific. However, since we're not able to define which folder does what in BIS, I guess they need to be specific names (i.e., "Sent" and "Deleted").

The problem is my hosted IMAP server likes to use "Sent Items" and "Trash" in lieu of "Sent" and "Deleted".

Funny thing is, just like BIS, my hosted IMAP server won't let me set which folder is used for what purpose. Hah.

That all being said, I made some extra folders called "Sent" and "Deleted", but it didn't seem to make a difference. After sending and deleting a bunch of E-mails, both folders are still blank. Hmmmmm.

whsbuss
06-04-2006, 06:41 AM
I'm reading two different things - some poeple say the Berry does move deleted and sent items, some say it doesn't. What is the bottom line? I'm probably just being stupid and not understanding, so I would be very grateful to anyone who can clear this up. I don't need full exchange-like folder sync, but I do need the Berry to move the sent and deleted items. Also (and this is probably another dumb question) - will setting the Berry up with my imap account (fastmail.fm) give me push?

Thanks for the help. I've used a Treo 650 with Chatter (the 650's only saving grace, IMHO) for over a year and am ready to switch.

BIS 2.0 does not move messages from you BB to Sent or Deleted, but sends IMAP commands to the email server that does the actual exchange. So when you send messages from the IMAP account configured on the BIS, a copy of it is placed in the Sent folder. Deleted messages are placed in the Deleted folder.

For this to work, you must have Reconcilation turned on. So on the BB under that account icon, click the trackwheel->Options->Email Options->Wireless Reconcile ON.

whsbuss
06-04-2006, 06:44 AM
I did select IMAP, that much I know. :) But I didn't know it was name/case specific. However, since we're not able to define which folder does what in BIS, I guess they need to be specific names (i.e., "Sent" and "Deleted").

The problem is my hosted IMAP server likes to use "Sent Items" and "Trash" in lieu of "Sent" and "Deleted".

Funny thing is, just like BIS, my hosted IMAP server won't let me set which folder is used for what purpose. Hah.

That all being said, I made some extra folders called "Sent" and "Deleted", but it didn't seem to make a difference. After sending and deleting a bunch of E-mails, both folders are still blank. Hmmmmm.

Actually Sent Items and Trash will also work. Be sure you have Wireless Reconcile set to ON in the email options.

bobdole42
06-04-2006, 09:10 AM
BIS 2.0 does not move messages from you BB to Sent or Deleted, but sends IMAP commands to the email server that does the actual exchange. So when you send messages from the IMAP account configured on the BIS, a copy of it is placed in the Sent folder. Deleted messages are placed in the Deleted folder.

For this to work, you must have Reconcilation turned on. So on the BB under that account icon, click the trackwheel->Options->Email Options->Wireless Reconcile ON.

Awesome - thank you!

Will this setup give me push though? Or will BIS poll my imap server every few minutes for new mail?

gdpmumin
06-04-2006, 09:21 AM
Awesome - thank you!

Will this setup give me push though? Or will BIS poll my imap server every few minutes for new mail?

It will poll roughly every 15 minutes. I say "roughly" because the documentation says every 15 minutes, but in my experience it's actually a little less than that, which is a good thing.

bobdole42
06-04-2006, 09:49 AM
It will poll roughly every 15 minutes. I say "roughly" because the documentation says every 15 minutes, but in my experience it's actually a little less than that, which is a good thing.

ugh. Well that takes me back to square one. Hosted Exchange (probably Mailstreet) or just forwarding my email to the BIS account. I really like the idea of using Mailstreet, but I'm worried that it will cause problems with my corporate BES.

code7700
06-04-2006, 11:29 AM
Actually Sent Items and Trash will also work. Be sure you have Wireless Reconcile set to ON in the email options.

Well, it should, but it doesn't. :smile: In fact, it never has. And yes, "Wireless Reconcile" is set to on "On".

I've been using IMAP for as long as TMO has had BIS (when they had BWC, I used an @<hidden> account) and have been forced to use AutoBCC to keep my outgoing messages (in fact, I thought the reason they had AutoBCC was because what we're talking about wasn't an option).

That all being said, I'm all ears.

I will also forward this thread to the hosted IMAP support desk and see what their take is on it. Oddly enough, when I interface with the IMAP server from my desktop (Outlook 2003) all sent messages are kept in my local (not IMAP server) sent folder and deleted messages get lines through them (strikeout text) until I press "Purge Deleted Messages". But on the hosted IMAP web interface, stuff actually gets put in the right folders (Sent Items and Trash).

whsbuss
06-04-2006, 11:48 AM
Well, it should, but it doesn't. :smile: In fact, it never has. And yes, "Wireless Reconcile" is set to on "On".

I've been using IMAP for as long as TMO has had BIS (when they had BWC, I used an @<hidden> account) and have been forced to use AutoBCC to keep my outgoing messages (in fact, I thought the reason they had AutoBCC was because what we're talking about wasn't an option).

That all being said, I'm all ears.

I will also forward this thread to the hosted IMAP support desk and see what their take is on it. Oddly enough, when I interface with the IMAP server from my desktop (Outlook 2003) all sent messages are kept in my local (not IMAP server) sent folder and deleted messages get lines through them (strikeout text) until I press "Purge Deleted Messages". But on the hosted IMAP web interface, stuff actually gets put in the right folders (Sent Items and Trash).

If you want Sent mail placed in your IMAP server's sent folder in Outlook, check into the Rules of Outlook 2003. Just a few steps are required to build it. You can also search the Microsoft knowledgebase for Rules in Outlook.

cp-Mike
06-04-2006, 12:13 PM
You can set your outlook to move sent items for a certain account to its IMAP sent folder. Check out this tutorial: itinfo (dot) mit (dot) edu/article.php?id=7590 (I can't post links yet)

code7700
06-04-2006, 12:49 PM
If you want Sent mail placed in your IMAP server's sent folder in Outlook, check into the Rules of Outlook 2003. Just a few steps are required to build it. You can also search the Microsoft knowledgebase for Rules in Outlook.

Thanks WHSBUSS (and CP-MIKE)... I'll look into that. But the more critical issue is getting the BlackBerry to put mail in the right location, not Outlook. :) Still no idea why I can't make it drop deleted messages and sent messages into the right IMAP folder.

whsbuss
06-04-2006, 01:58 PM
Thanks WHSBUSS (and CP-MIKE)... I'll look into that. But the more critical issue is getting the BlackBerry to put mail in the right location, not Outlook. :) Still no idea why I can't make it drop deleted messages and sent messages into the right IMAP folder.

Here's something to try. Open Outlook and login to your IMAP account. Then send a message on your BB using the IMAP account. If the BIS is connecting trying to place the sent message into your folder, Outlook should popup a dialog stating the server was disconnected. That would prove the BIS is making an attempt.

If that happens, I suggest deleting and recreating the Sent and Trash folders on the IMAP server.

Hunter5117
06-04-2006, 05:32 PM
I have 2 different IMAP accunts linked to my BB and I have never had any luck with deleted items on either my computer or BB propagating through to the other. Sent items on the BB automatically show up on the computer. I BCC all my sent items from my computer to the BB. That's as good as I have been able to get it.

whsbuss
06-04-2006, 06:42 PM
I have 2 different IMAP accunts linked to my BB and I have never had any luck with deleted items on either my computer or BB propagating through to the other. Sent items on the BB automatically show up on the computer. I BCC all my sent items from my computer to the BB. That's as good as I have been able to get it.

Are you on Cingular? Only BIS 2.0 does the IMAP reconcilation.

gdpmumin
06-04-2006, 06:45 PM
ugh. Well that takes me back to square one. Hosted Exchange (probably Mailstreet) or just forwarding my email to the BIS account. I really like the idea of using Mailstreet, but I'm worried that it will cause problems with my corporate BES.

You can't use two Exchange accounts on the BB at the same time, so that's not an option for you.

code7700
06-04-2006, 06:48 PM
It will poll roughly every 15 minutes. I say "roughly" because the documentation says every 15 minutes, but in my experience it's actually a little less than that, which is a good thing.

Actually, my IMAP server keeps track of remote access. Here is a log file that shows how often BIS checks the IMAP server:


IP > Date > Time > Interval
216.9.249.40 > Sun, 4 Jun > 4:15 PM > 0:15
216.9.249.251 > Sun, 4 Jun > 4:00 PM > 0:15
216.9.249.242 > Sun, 4 Jun > 3:45 PM > 0:15
216.9.249.249 > Sun, 4 Jun > 3:30 PM > 0:15
216.9.249.239 > Sun, 4 Jun > 3:15 PM > 0:09
216.9.249.40 > Sun, 4 Jun > 3:06 PM > 0:06
216.9.249.236 > Sun, 4 Jun > 3:00 PM > 0:03
216.9.249.244 > Sun, 4 Jun > 2:57 PM > 0:15
216.9.249.40 > Sun, 4 Jun > 2:42 PM > 0:15
216.9.249.248 > Sun, 4 Jun > 2:27 PM > 0:15
216.9.249.253 > Sun, 4 Jun > 2:12 PM > 0:16
216.9.249.249 > Sun, 4 Jun > 1:56 PM > 0:15
216.9.249.243 > Sun, 4 Jun > 1:41 PM > 0:14
216.9.249.249 > Sun, 4 Jun > 1:27 PM > 0:15
216.9.249.40 > Sun, 4 Jun > 1:12 PM > 0:15
216.9.249.237 > Sun, 4 Jun > 12:57 PM > 0:15
216.9.249.251 > Sun, 4 Jun > 12:42 PM > 0:15
216.9.249.238 > Sun, 4 Jun > 12:27 PM > 0:16
216.9.249.251 > Sun, 4 Jun > 12:11 PM > 0:05
216.9.249.40 > Sun, 4 Jun > 12:06 PM > 0:10
216.9.249.245 > Sun, 4 Jun > 11:56 AM > 0:03
216.9.249.235 > Sun, 4 Jun > 11:53 AM > 0:15
216.9.249.40 > Sun, 4 Jun > 11:38 AM > 0:15
216.9.249.253 > Sun, 4 Jun > 11:23 AM > 0:07
216.9.249.40 > Sun, 4 Jun > 11:16 AM > 0:08
216.9.249.240 > Sun, 4 Jun > 11:08 AM > 0:15
216.9.249.249 > Sun, 4 Jun > 10:53 AM > 0:06
216.9.249.40 > Sun, 4 Jun > 10:47 AM > 0:06
216.9.249.242 > Sun, 4 Jun > 10:41 AM > 0:02
216.9.249.40 > Sun, 4 Jun > 10:39 AM > 0:01
216.9.249.250 > Sun, 4 Jun > 10:38 AM > 0:14
216.9.249.40 > Sun, 4 Jun > 10:24 AM > 0:01
216.9.249.254 > Sun, 4 Jun > 10:23 AM > 0:14
216.9.249.40 > Sun, 4 Jun > 10:09 AM > 0:01
216.9.249.254 > Sun, 4 Jun > 10:08 AM > 0:02
216.9.249.40 > Sun, 4 Jun > 10:06 AM > 0:13
216.9.249.40 > Sun, 4 Jun > 9:53 AM > 0:07
216.9.249.40 > Sun, 4 Jun > 9:46 AM > 0:08
216.9.249.243 > Sun, 4 Jun > 9:38 AM > 0:03
216.9.249.40 > Sun, 4 Jun > 9:35 AM > N/A

bobdole42
06-05-2006, 11:23 PM
You can't use two Exchange accounts on the BB at the same time, so that's not an option for you.

I did not know that. That makes my decision much easier! I guess I will be forwarding my email to the 8700. I have been spoiled by the IMAP sync with Chatter but I'll get over it!

code7700
06-07-2006, 02:46 AM
I wrote TMO again. Here is what they said:

Thank you for contacting T-Mobile. We understand you have an issue with the way BIS 2.0 works with your IMAP account and we know how important it is to have full support. We certainly are here to help.

Upon further review of our systems we do not have any information on the support of the emails that are sent and deleted being stored on your IMAP server. What we would suggest you do for further details is to give our PDA/BlackBerry department a call and they will transfer you to RIM to see if that is a possibility for the BlackBerry.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please respond back to this email or contact us at 1-800-937-8997 or 611 from your handset. Please check out http://support.t-mobile.com for more information about the features of your phone and the detailed manuals.

Thank you for choosing T-Mobile and we appreciate your business.

...and when I called the 800 number, they told me, "Sorry, we can't transfer you to the BlackBerry department."

code7700
06-10-2006, 10:25 AM
FYI, BlackBerry KB-05133 (http://www.blackberry.com/knowledgecenterpublic/livelink.exe/fetch/2000/8021/270925/1220390/What_Is_-_Email_reconciliation_features_for_BlackBerry_Internet_Service_2.0?nodeid=1221463&vernum=0) says "Yes, in some cases."

code7700
06-10-2006, 10:44 AM
Here's something to try. Open Outlook and login to your IMAP account. Then send a message on your BB using the IMAP account. If the BIS is connecting trying to place the sent message into your folder, Outlook should popup a dialog stating the server was disconnected. That would prove the BIS is making an attempt.

If that happens, I suggest deleting and recreating the Sent and Trash folders on the IMAP server.

Nope. I didn't do that.

One thing I noticed is that on the IMAP server (web interface) it lists:

Inbox
Sent Items
Junk Mail
Friend X
Friend Y

But in Outlook, it lists:

Inbox
Inbox.Sent Items
Inbox.Junk Mail
Inbox.Friend X
Inbox.Friend Y

...that might explain it. And when I tried to make a new box (Sent Items, not Inbox.Sent Items) in Outlook, it said "Permission Denied".

My guess is that it is related to how the hosted IMAP company put their stuff together.

whsbuss
06-10-2006, 08:05 PM
I believe your IMAP provider is using the Cyrus IMAP implementation. That won't work with the BIS. Here's some documentation.

http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/imapd/install-FAQ.html

code7700
06-11-2006, 09:29 PM
I believe your IMAP provider is using the Cyrus IMAP implementation. That won't work with the BIS. Here's some documentation.

http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/imapd/install-FAQ.html

Nice. I think you hit the nail on the head. I think you've earned 10 bonus points due to the obscure nature of the problem. :)

Thank you for your help.

SunDog
03-10-2007, 06:22 PM
If you want Sent mail placed in your IMAP server's sent folder in Outlook, check into the Rules of Outlook 2003. Just a few steps are required to build it. You can also search the Microsoft knowledgebase for Rules in Outlook.

After much searching, you all are talking about my issues...

I can't get msgs deleted from my desktop (for two different email accounts) to disappear on BB. One account is an Outlook 03 IMAP that echoes a university server, other is Gmail. Both do the same thing.

Everything else works. Msgs sent from BB show up on servers, msgs deleted from BB disappear from servers. But emails deleted (or moved to personal IMAP folder, and 'purge deleted' from server) from server stay around in BB, and it's driving me crazy.

I just got this BB 8703e on Verizon, and not sure if BIS is 2.0 or 1.8. When I set up these accounts via BB website, just entered email address and password, didn't get a chance to choose IMAP. Also use Blackberry Desktop Mgr, and the selection for "reconcile msgs" is greyed out. All other Outlook features synch just fine.

HELP! I try to keep my inbox clean, and move a lot of emails off the server, and it's driving me crazy to have them hang around on BB version.

Thanks in advance,

John

whsbuss
03-11-2007, 06:53 AM
After much searching, you all are talking about my issues...

I can't get msgs deleted from my desktop (for two different email accounts) to disappear on BB. One account is an Outlook 03 IMAP that echoes a university server, other is Gmail. Both do the same thing.

Everything else works. Msgs sent from BB show up on servers, msgs deleted from BB disappear from servers. But emails deleted (or moved to personal IMAP folder, and 'purge deleted' from server) from server stay around in BB, and it's driving me crazy.

I just got this BB 8703e on Verizon, and not sure if BIS is 2.0 or 1.8. When I set up these accounts via BB website, just entered email address and password, didn't get a chance to choose IMAP. Also use Blackberry Desktop Mgr, and the selection for "reconcile msgs" is greyed out. All other Outlook features synch just fine.

HELP! I try to keep my inbox clean, and move a lot of emails off the server, and it's driving me crazy to have them hang around on BB version.

Thanks in advance,

John

John,

Its because the BIS only reconciles one-way from BB -> IMAP.

SunDog
03-11-2007, 09:30 PM
John,

Its because the BIS only reconciles one-way from BB -> IMAP.

Whsbuss,

thanks...so then the BIS-version of the BB is effectively only a 'check-in' feature for the main realm of the server system -- it keeps the user current on breaking msgs, vs being a place to do full-fledged email work. Sigh... I guess that is worth something, but not what I'd hoped for.

I set the "keep emails for..." item to 15 days, but is there anything else I need to do to avoid a BB server overload?

thanks,
John