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View Full Version : BG unearths the 8800 "Gamma Ray"


mrogers
08-29-2006, 01:47 PM
The Boy Genius Report: BlackBerry 8705 / 8800 - Engadget Mobile (http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2006/08/29/the-boy-genius-report-blackberry-8705-8800/)

Right now, he's saying it will NOT have the 8100's camera (I don't know if that means it won't have a camera at all). And it won't be released by the end of the year. Boo.

But many thanks to BG for all the info! PLEASE post pics as soon as you can!

snowskier79
08-29-2006, 01:55 PM
I'm interested to see the pics. Crazy to thing of BBs w/out trackwheels!

paulbblc
08-29-2006, 02:27 PM
no camera but... WIFI, even better!

mrogers
08-29-2006, 02:34 PM
Yeah. I'm willing to give up the camera if I get WiFi. How freaking sweet would that be? It just better support the enterprise-level WPA TKIP encryption that my university uses. I would assume so, but we have to jump through hoops to get it to work on Windows so it scares me to think about doing it on another device.

And Paul...I love your sig :-)

anthonymoody
08-29-2006, 02:38 PM
HOLY CRAP BG. I mean, we knew you were the man before. But now...jeez.

8800 here I come :D

TM

rhassoii
08-29-2006, 03:23 PM
Am I the only one bummed about not having a camera.

mrogers
08-29-2006, 03:25 PM
No, I'm pretty bummed too. I don't work in a secure environment, and there's often stuff I want to snap pictures of -- mostly stupid people doing stupid things, so I can email it to my friends and we can all laugh. So I would love to have a camera, but I think I'd rather be able to type my emails without SureType. I'd love to NOT have to make that choice. The 8800 is still a long ways off, maybe there will be a camera? We can hope.

rjharary
08-29-2006, 04:32 PM
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8700/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102)

Is the 8100's camera even good quality? If not, then I would rather do without the camera. Even the 2mp cell cameras I see today have terrible lenses, so regardless of the size of the image, it's still poor quality.


I read that the camera quality is great but I'd take wifi anyday

mrogers
08-29-2006, 04:39 PM
We have to login through a browser and keep a window open at all times or else the session times out.

Now THAT is the goofiest wifi authentication scheme I've ever heard of. And I've been at this for awhile.

Stinsonddog
08-29-2006, 04:48 PM
OK so fill me in here on how this wifi works? Do I have to have an account as I travel all over the country. So I might be on Cingular and need a TM Hot Spot account?

What I really want in broadband tethering so the 8703 is tempting, but would prefer not to switch.

mrogers
08-29-2006, 05:12 PM
I assume that the WiFi works just like it would in a laptop. WiFi is WiFi. It should work on home networks, school and business networks, hotspots, whatever. I wouldn't expect to make voice calls on it though, but maybe they'll surprise us. I would be happy just using it to browse the web when I'm in range of a wireless access point. I would be ecstatic if they found a way for it to have full BlackBerry functionality over a standard WiFi internet connection. I don't think it would be that hard -- the redirector is sort of a software version of a BlackBerry, I assume they can tie a BB into their system over the internet.

Stinsonddog
08-29-2006, 05:23 PM
I assume that the WiFi works just like it would in a laptop. WiFi is WiFi. It should work on home networks, school and business networks, hotspots, whatever. I wouldn't expect to make voice calls on it though, but maybe they'll surprise us. I would be happy just using it to browse the web when I'm in range of a wireless access point. I would be ecstatic if they found a way for it to have full BlackBerry functionality over a standard WiFi internet connection. I don't think it would be that hard -- the redirector is sort of a software version of a BlackBerry, I assume they can tie a BB into their system over the internet.

That's what I thought it might be. I still feel like being near a hotspot is somewhat limiting. It's when I travel that I want the broadband speeds, and without finding a hotspot to do it. So I guess I would prefer a UMTS model as opposed to wifi if I want to stay with Cingular or I'll have to jump to EVDO if I can't wait.

mkatari
08-29-2006, 06:05 PM
Any idea which carrier the first 8800 phones will be for? I'm guessing T-mobile and cingular, with verizon lagging MONTHS behind.

jeremy
08-29-2006, 06:18 PM
I would expected that we will be able to do Wireless Bypass, at least with BES, over WiFi which would help to minimize the data usage with your carrier.

Dude
08-29-2006, 06:23 PM
Any idea which carrier the first 8800 phones will be for? I'm guessing T-mobile and cingular, with verizon lagging MONTHS behind.

It has to be Cingular. T-Mobile is about to release the 8100, Verizon the 8703. Maybe Sprint, but CDMA usually lags behing GSM.

Seattle18
08-29-2006, 06:24 PM
Being a Windows Mobile convert, I'm somewhat familiar with WiFi on handhelds. You'd be surprised just how many hotspots there are out there nowadays. The best thing is you can just check your signal at any time to see if you are in range of one, and it will ask you for a password if necessary, and if it is an open/free signal, it will just connect for you. Starbucks has one you need to pay for, but Panera is free, and most libraries, many coffee shops and bookstores, and even parks have free ones. The park I live next to (Marymoor Park in Redmond) has the largest WiFi signal in a public park in the nation (http://www.metrokc.gov/parks/documents/marymoor_wifi_zones.pdf). Many grocery stores have them too.

For me, WiFi is more inportant than a camera. ALL handheld PDA camera's suck, no exceptions. The best of them still is worse than a disposable one. Solid cameras in PDAs are a long way off. So until then, buy a Canon, and get a BB with WiFi!

Stewie
08-29-2006, 06:35 PM
I am willing to wait for the 8800 to replace mt 8700g. WiFi is important and I would be more than willing to sacrifice a camera for the WiFi radio. This configuration could mark the end of the Treo which has yet to integrate a WiFi radio into its design.

Oh what a happy Tuesday :)

Boy Genius
08-29-2006, 07:23 PM
No camera at the moment device is not near mass production so things can change, heard it has more RAM, faster processor things like that...

Seattle18
08-29-2006, 07:40 PM
No camera at the moment device is not near mass production so things can change, heard it has more RAM, faster processor things like that...
More RAM and a removeable memory card?

Boy Genius
08-29-2006, 09:11 PM
yep

Steve
08-29-2006, 09:54 PM
I would expected that we will be able to do Wireless Bypass, at least with BES, over WiFi which would help to minimize the data usage with your carrier.

Wouldn't it be annoying if WiFi was for BES access only? I hope BIS users aren't cut-off in anyway.

I'm able to sync with BT at home now. So, other than browsing and grabbing e-mail, and possibly syncing, what other advantages would full access gain us? Remote access to desktops?

I'd rather use my carrier's unlimited data plan at work than have IT charge-back my department for internet usage. Their overage warning e-mails are annoying.

Steve

Lurs
08-29-2006, 09:58 PM
Wouldn't it be annoying if WiFi was for BES access only?
I was thinking the same thing, but for some reason I doubt that.

kwang98131
08-29-2006, 10:38 PM
so the 8800 is gona be liek an 8100 but with wifi and no camera? any description of this device BG or pix?


now you got me thinking about waiting even longer to get a BB lol. nah ill prob get the 8100 and play with that for a bit. 8-)

Stewie
08-29-2006, 10:39 PM
I would have to say that WiFi plays into T-Mobile's business model the best. I can see them creating a new BIS plan that has unlimited access to their Hot Spots. This alone would be a good reason to make T-Mobile the launch provider for the 8800. Another reason to have WiFi is streaming video (one way video conferencing, you can see them but they can only hear you) and a way to offer speedy data connections until T-Mobile can get a solid 3G solution in place.

Stinsonddog
08-29-2006, 10:59 PM
I would have to say that WiFi plays into T-Mobile's business model the best. I can see them creating a new BIS plan that has unlimited access to their Hot Spots. This alone would be a good reason to make T-Mobile the launch provider for the 8800. Another reason to have WiFi is streaming video (one way video conferencing, you can see them but they can only hear you) and a way to offer speedy data connections until T-Mobile can get a solid 3G solution in place.


I agree with this very much. TM would be a much better launch choice with wifi.

Postalrecon
08-30-2006, 12:17 AM
So until then, buy a Canon, and get a BB with WiFi!

Amen to that, canon is the best

kwang98131
08-30-2006, 08:10 AM
Amen to that, canon is the best

what about sony with its zeiss lens? :razz:

strobate
08-30-2006, 09:48 AM
Yea, Cingular's not gonna be too down with WiFi and VZW would almost certainly cripple it. Tmo, maybe with a $10 up on BlackBerry w/ HotSpot plans.

headtailgrep
08-30-2006, 10:28 AM
BG: Your in the line of fire now (note the globe and mail article profiling BoyGenius's leaks to Engadget) and i'm sure you know it.. (rim would be after ANYONE that leaks their info)

Fear the wrath of Rim is all i have to say.. and good luck.

Thanks for sharing.. (someone had to do it, and if you didn't , it would have been someone else!)



Good luck.. fear the wrath of RIM!

xxhiyanxx
08-30-2006, 10:28 AM
i dont' get people that always say "buy a camera" do you carry your 400 dollar camera everywhere you go?

headtailgrep
08-30-2006, 10:49 AM
i dont' get people that always say "buy a camera" do you carry your 400 dollar camera everywhere you go?

My camera cost $1500 and i carry it around everywhere I go (in my bag). As a photographer you never know when you will use it. It's the moment that matters, and in an instant, that moment, and your opportunity could dissapear.

mobilecontrol
08-30-2006, 10:52 AM
BG: Your in the line of fire now (note the globe and mail article profiling BoyGenius's leaks to Engadget) and i'm sure you know it.. (rim would be after ANYONE that leaks their info)

Fear the wrath of Rim is all i have to say.. and good luck.

Thanks for sharing.. (someone had to do it, and if you didn't , it would have been someone else!)



Good luck.. fear the wrath of RIM!

He's not the only one in the entire world leaking information on future devices for any company...there are thousands of technology-based blog websites leaking information daily. And, you're right, if he isn't doing it...someone will come right along and take his place in doing the same. 8-)

Seattle18
08-30-2006, 11:16 AM
i dont' get people that always say "buy a camera" do you carry your 400 dollar camera everywhere you go?
No, but I do actually care about the quality of the photos I take. PDA camera pics suck, no way around it. I have used those before, and all the pics were terrible - nothing worth keeping - so what's the use? If all you want is crappy pics to send as MMSs or something, then fine, but for any pics you intend to keep, no way.

jbibbs
08-30-2006, 12:52 PM
Guess I'll get the 8100 now and when the 8800 comes out next year I'll pick it up also...

paulbblc
08-30-2006, 12:56 PM
I'm wondering if BG has any info on the cost of this one yet, or if it's still way too early to determine. Far more excited for this one over the 8100. I said it earlier in this thread but WIFI!!! That and because it's almost certain this will be on Cingular and I won't have to pay to get it unlocked...

strobate
08-30-2006, 01:45 PM
I'm not sure you should be "almost certain this will be on Cingular."

paulbblc
08-30-2006, 01:51 PM
I'm not sure you should be "almost certain this will be on Cingular."

Okay, well you don't have to be but I am. TMO gets the 8100 first therefore it is more likely than not that Cingular will get the 8800 first (in the US that is). I highly doubt TMO will get exclusive to both new models and who else is going to pick it up then? Sprint/Nextell? Please. Verizon? They're too busy with their Qs and Treos.

All signs point to Cingular.

cschrage
08-30-2006, 03:21 PM
I currently have and 8700...great device.

What I really want - TMO to come out with a 8700 like device with solid UMTS/HSPDA coverage. I want to drop my home cable modem and have a device I can Tether...EDGE is really not cutting it for me.

I will say that even though I dislike SureType keyboards, when released, I will be picking up a Samsung SGH-T719...just for it's size.

Zro
08-30-2006, 03:21 PM
who's gotten what first or most recently doens't necessarily mean anything. If Sprint/Nextel is willing to put up the cash to make it more worth while for a handset manufacturer to put out the handset on their network first, then that's the first network it will go for.

Seeing as how there's more GSM providers, this opens up a bigger "Bidding" war...but which provider is more willing to pay? Is Cingular going to pay more because T-Mobile may be releasing something else first? or is T-Mobile going to pay more because it's already started a business model around WiFi? If the next handheld was to be UMTS, then I could see easier that Cingular would be more interested in this since it's going along with their business model and plans.

But that's just my $0.02 worth.

Zro

strobate
08-30-2006, 03:40 PM
Uh, yea. RIM doesn't decide to hand out devices exclusively to providers to be nice. And if RIM wanted its BB's WiFi to be used, Tmob is the only U.S. player with infrastructure.

mobilecontrol
08-30-2006, 04:00 PM
Okay, well you don't have to be but I am. TMO gets the 8100 first therefore it is more likely than not that Cingular will get the 8800 first (in the US that is). I highly doubt TMO will get exclusive to both new models and who else is going to pick it up then? Sprint/Nextell? Please. Verizon? They're too busy with their Qs and Treos.

All signs point to Cingular.

All signs will point to the provider willing to dish out the most cash money...

paulbblc
08-30-2006, 04:41 PM
All signs will point to the provider willing to dish out the most cash money...

Well I kinda figured that was a given so left it out of the post. Yes it all depends on outbiding the competitor. I just feel that Cingular will be the one who walks away with it.

anthonymoody
08-30-2006, 05:59 PM
Yeah you guys make it sound like RIM is planning a round robin for launches of new devices. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzt thanks for playing!! It's not only the $ the carrier will put up to the phone provider, it's how much they commit to marketing, special plans, etc.

I'd say all signs point to whoever wants it most...

TM

Metalsiren
08-31-2006, 09:32 AM
I currently have and 8700...great device.

What I really want - TMO to come out with a 8700 like device with solid UMTS/HSPDA coverage. I want to drop my home cable modem and have a device I can Tether...EDGE is really not cutting it for me.

I will say that even though I dislike SureType keyboards, when released, I will be picking up a Samsung SGH-T719...just for it's size.

thats what I was wondering is if the 8800 will be GSM and support HSDPA????
gee I hope so....

maverick777
09-12-2006, 02:44 PM
Just spoke to my Cingular rep today about this. I was thinking about getting the 8100, but decided to wait. My rep called it the 8900, but who knows. He said they have a Q1 2007 release date (Jan-Mar). It will have WiFi, GSM (Tri-band), USTM (no HSPDA), 8100 form factor, full qwerty keyboard. That's all I got out of him.

I can't wait til it comes out.

Metalsiren
09-12-2006, 03:26 PM
Just spoke to my Cingular rep today about this. I was thinking about getting the 8100, but decided to wait. My rep called it the 8900, but who knows. He said they have a Q1 2007 release date (Jan-Mar). It will have WiFi, GSM (Tri-band), USTM (no HSPDA), 8100 form factor, full qwerty keyboard. That's all I got out of him.

I can't wait til it comes out.

UMTS and not HSDPA.... thats nuts.......

ndirish2001
09-12-2006, 03:31 PM
Just spoke to my Cingular rep today about this. I was thinking about getting the 8100, but decided to wait. My rep called it the 8900, but who knows. He said they have a Q1 2007 release date (Jan-Mar). It will have WiFi, GSM (Tri-band), USTM (no HSPDA), 8100 form factor, full qwerty keyboard. That's all I got out of him.

I can't wait til it comes out.

I wonder if by "form factor" he means only the thickness. I have a hard time picturing a full QWERTY keyboard fitting in the width of the 8100, but I would definitely buy such a device. In fact, such a BB may be enough for me to port to Cingular (from Sprint).

maverick777
09-13-2006, 10:46 AM
I wonder if by "form factor" he means only the thickness. I have a hard time picturing a full QWERTY keyboard fitting in the width of the 8100, but I would definitely buy such a device. In fact, such a BB may be enough for me to port to Cingular (from Sprint).

Sorry for the confusion. When I said it will have the same "form factor", I meant the 8800/8900 will be as thin as the 8100 as well as use the trackball system and will have the same type of color scheme. Of course it will be wider to accomodate the full qwerty keyboard which also means the screen will be larger. YAY!

BBAdmin
09-13-2006, 11:09 AM
Great, another device I'm not going to get to see at the next RIM event because they're so paranoid about leaks.

headtailgrep
09-13-2006, 01:14 PM
Great, another device I'm not going to get to see at the next RIM event because they're so paranoid about leaks.

Come on. The pearl was everywhere before it's official release date. This one is sure to be the same, most of the hype is gone! Perhaps not at a developer conference, but i'm sure if you know the right people you'd get to see one behind closed curtains.

BBAdmin
09-13-2006, 01:18 PM
you know the right people you'd get to see one behind closed curtains.

The problem is even the right people in RIM are not trusted now becasue of the profound number of leaks.

Boy Genius
09-13-2006, 04:13 PM
Unless your BG, then the whooole world can see behind closed curtains... :)

K-Mack
09-13-2006, 04:49 PM
That's right! BG is in the house! 8-)

ndirish2001
09-13-2006, 05:08 PM
Unless your BG, then the whooole world can see behind closed curtains... :)

BG, can you tell us anything new about the 8800 (or 8200, whatever it'll be called)?

Boy Genius
09-13-2006, 07:02 PM
Hmmm...well it is really looking like it wont have a camera, and we will have to wait for the next model after the 8800 to have a QWERTY keyboard with camera. Looks like RIM is aiming for an April '07 release for the 8800

GrkEngineer
09-13-2006, 07:26 PM
Hmmm...well it is really looking like it wont have a camera, and we will have to wait for the next model after the 8800 to have a QWERTY keyboard with camera. Looks like RIM is aiming for an April '07 release for the 8800

Finally!!! I've been looking for a WiFi phone for Tmobile with no camera. Was about to go to an unlocked Cingular 8100 phone because TM only has the camera MDA. I'm one of the many who work in a secure DoD facility, and I'm very happy to hear of a camera-free version. I'll definetly wait for it. I think it's smart to produce both types.

ndirish2001
09-14-2006, 09:02 AM
Finally!!! I've been looking for a WiFi phone for Tmobile with no camera. Was about to go to an unlocked Cingular 8100 phone because TM only has the camera MDA. I'm one of the many who work in a secure DoD facility, and I'm very happy to hear of a camera-free version. I'll definetly wait for it. I think it's smart to produce both types.

Agreed. I'm an attorney and most courtrooms don't allow anyone in with a cameraphone.

Metalsiren
09-14-2006, 11:24 AM
Hmmm...well it is really looking like it wont have a camera, and we will have to wait for the next model after the 8800 to have a QWERTY keyboard with camera. Looks like RIM is aiming for an April '07 release for the 8800

Will the 8800 still only be an EDGE class radio, or will it be UMTS/HSDPA? was curious.

jibi
09-14-2006, 11:57 AM
Will the 8800 still only be an EDGE class radio, or will it be UMTS/HSDPA? was curious.
GSM/GPRS/EDGE - Quad-Band

nsimpson
09-14-2006, 12:02 PM
Im going to be so broke the 8100 and wii, the ps3 and now a new blackberry? fugh... At least i wont have any time to entertain my ol lady.

joginder
09-14-2006, 01:38 PM
And if you see the history, T-Mo brings all the SureTypes first and Cingular brings all the QWERYT ones so it looks like 8800 will be from Cingular and May be Vodaphone in EU.

trompi
09-15-2006, 01:50 AM
Hmmm...well it is really looking like it wont have a camera, and we will have to wait for the next model after the 8800 to have a QWERTY keyboard with camera. Looks like RIM is aiming for an April '07 release for the 8800
Yes, no camera,8700 form factor but half thick,two versions one wifi one without.And yes,on the wifi ones you can do VOIP, just like with the 7270.

SAVAGE WAYZ
09-15-2006, 02:01 AM
Niiiiiiiiceeee.....Im loving the 8100, but im excited about the 8800....Haven't had a full QWERTY since the SK2

KlarUlz
09-15-2006, 02:15 AM
Hmm... they will have one version w/ a cam, one without. I heard Dec/Jan release.

mrogers
09-16-2006, 09:30 AM
Hmm... they will have one version w/ a cam, one without. I heard Dec/Jan release.

Uh...source? That's not what BG and other insiders have been saying.

jungleland
09-16-2006, 09:36 AM
what a clown the BG is...He says, "like how I have your stock above $80"..Clearly he is not in the finance business, RIMM has traded WITH the Nasdaq, it is not under performing nor out performing. Overlay the charts of the two and you will see that they are trading in line with each other....

Get over yourself sir....

Bigmark173
09-16-2006, 10:06 AM
Blackberry...QWERTY, Camera....mini SD...sounds almost too good to be true!

K-Mack
09-16-2006, 11:49 AM
what a clown the BG is...He says, "like how I have your stock above $80"..Clearly he is not in the finance business, RIMM has traded WITH the Nasdaq, it is not under performing nor out performing. Overlay the charts of the two and you will see that they are trading in line with each other....

Get over yourself sir....

Hey, just chill a little. BG doesn't have to do what he does. There's a lot of guys (like me) who are interested in what he has to say, and it's usually correct. Is he a little arrogant?, maybe, but he's given us a lot of good info and I certainly appreciate it.

KlarUlz
09-16-2006, 12:24 PM
Uh...source? That's not what BG and other insiders have been saying.

I'd really prefer to keep my job, thanks ;) BG is generally extremely accurate, but if he saw the version w/o a camera, it would be easy to assume that they just were not putting one in.

Of course logically, maybe i saw a test device WITH one, and it was decided against? I dont know, just wondering out loud..

jungleland
09-16-2006, 01:47 PM
Hey, just chill a little. BG doesn't have to do what he does. There's a lot of guys (like me) who are interested in what he has to say, and it's usually correct. Is he a little arrogant?, maybe, but he's given us a lot of good info and I certainly appreciate it.



I agree...Don't get me wrong, I love his information and the fact the he shares it with us. However, the hubris of this guy (boy) to think that he is the one effecting the stock price and increasing the beta in the options market of this particular security is hysterical. I have managed a substantial hedge fund for almost ten years; so his comments about his influence on the market of this security is more ridiculous to me than it would be to most.

just my .02..

keep the change

ncabbyt
09-16-2006, 05:05 PM
I would have to say that WiFi plays into T-Mobile's business model the best. I can see them creating a new BIS plan that has unlimited access to their Hot Spots. This alone would be a good reason to make T-Mobile the launch provider for the 8800. Another reason to have WiFi is streaming video (one way video conferencing, you can see them but they can only hear you) and a way to offer speedy data connections until T-Mobile can get a solid 3G solution in place.

UMA.... Maybe not on the 8800.... but soon.

Boy Genius
09-16-2006, 07:50 PM
I agree...Don't get me wrong, I love his information and the fact the he shares it with us. However, the hubris of this guy (boy) to think that he is the one effecting the stock price and increasing the beta in the options market of this particular security is hysterical. I have managed a substantial hedge fund for almost ten years; so his comments about his influence on the market of this security is more ridiculous to me than it would be to most.

just my .02..

keep the change

Your kidding me right? First off you would be affecting something, not effecting something. Lets see product leaks by...ME influencing the stock price, sound unreasonable? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060830.RBLACKBERRY30/TPStory/Business . Time for a new job smart guy

jungleland
09-16-2006, 08:54 PM
Your kidding me right? First off you would be affecting something, not effecting something. Lets see product leaks by...ME influencing the stock price, sound unreasonable? globeandmail.com : Register (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060830.RBLACKBERRY30/TPStory/Business) . Time for a new job smart guy



I appreciate the grammar lesson, however I graduated near the top of my class from the NYU Stern School of Business and received an MBA from the Wharton School, dyslexia not withstanding. Perhaps you should do a little reading. Might I suggest a dictionary for starters, that might advise you as to the proper usage for effect and affect. As for my job, an average of 45bps a week from my fund for the last 3 years makes me think that I DON'T need to be looking for a new "JOB". If you were to learn a little more about the English language and proper word usage, you would know that I would not be looking for a new "JOB", I would be looking for a new career... be that as it may, I think I am doing just fine...Run-on sentences and all.


No bad feelings towards you, just don't get such a big head, it will take more than you to influence the stock price. Additionally, the information you have been "LEAKING" has been known for quite some time by insiders, just not to the level that you have been so kind to share. Allusions as to the coming products were made early in the first quarter of this year by several analysts I have met with that cover the stock. I assure you, they know FAR more than you, unfortunately they have shackles on them with respect to how much info they can divulge.


Keep the good stuff coming, just take a blue pill first...

Cheers...

(pardon my rambling, 4 scotches down the hatch)

thought
09-16-2006, 10:28 PM
what a clown the BG is...He says, "like how I have your stock above $80"..Clearly he is not in the finance business, RIMM has traded WITH the Nasdaq, it is not under performing nor out performing. Overlay the charts of the two and you will see that they are trading in line with each other....



With all due respect, RIMM has significantly outperformed the NASDAQ since rumors of the Pearl began to leak...
Here's a link to a 3 mos. chart of RIM vs the NASDAQ as you suggest:
RIMM: Basic Chart for RESEARCH IN MOTION - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=3m&s=RIMM&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=&c=%5EIXIC)

I did a search on engadgetmobile.com and found that the first real leak of details and a picture of the 8100 came out on August 6.

On August 7 RIMM traded at 66.13 per share; on Sept 15 RIMM traded at 85.27. That's a gain of 29.94%.
On Aug 7 the NASDAQ closed at 2,072.50; on Sept. 15 the NASDAQ closed at 2,235.59. That's a gain of 7.87%.

The Wall Street Journal on Sept 7 reported "at Wednesday's close (9/6), RIM shares had surged 21% since the end of July, largely on speculation about the Pearl. Here's the link (subscription required):
WSJ.com - Login (http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20060907-710065.html?mod=wsjcrmain)

Clearly, for whatever reasons you want to believe, RIMM has outperformed the NASDAQ since the rumors hit. The Wall Street Journal, among others, believes that it is largely due to the leaked info on the Pearl. Now, BG may not be the only one responsible for those rumors, but he was certainly a major driver.

mrogers
09-16-2006, 11:19 PM
Your kidding me right? First off you would be affecting something, not effecting something....

Hey BG, I love ya man, but...it's "You're kidding me...", not "Your kidding me...". It looks pretty funny, someone giving grammar lessons while in the same breath they make a grammatical mistake.

Be that as it may, can everyone deflate their egos a little? Take the stock speculation somewhere else if you want to continue that discussion (this thread's for the 8800). BG...might want to give the guy a break, there's always the off chance that someone might actually know what they're talking about. Remember, just about everyone's an expert in something. But Jungleland, spouting your educational repertoire and financial performance during an online forum spat doesn't look nearly as dignified as you had probably hoped, I think. I offer this as friendly advice from someone who's been using online "forums" of one type or another since pretty much the only option was newsgroups: just telling people online that you're smart and successful never works.

Let's all be friends. Back to the 8800.

Ever since I started reading about this UMA thing with T-Mobile I've been very excited about it. Theoretically, any device with Wifi, GSM, and the right software could do it, right? Or is there a special hardware component? That would be great if the 8800 would do UMA -- of course it would be greater if Cingular would do UMA, but that just might be enough to get me to switch to T-Mobile.

Boy Genius
09-17-2006, 12:23 AM
That's fine, move forward and get back to the topic, but if he was the one going out on a limb leaking all this info I would give him a pat on the back, I don't think I have a big ego, I know what is factual and how the stock has rised based upon my leaks and articles.

Boy Genius
09-17-2006, 12:30 AM
I don't believe cingular will be implementing UMA soon there is no reason to. T-Mobile already has the WiFi infrastructure and this is an expansion of to your home, your router etc. The other reason is that T-Mobile's coverage is lacking compared to cingular and they feel this will sell more phones now that people will not complain about coverage at home. About your other point UMA is theoretically another "network" like GSM, Bluetooth etc, although I don't believe it is hardware dependant, WiFi with the right software might work

MedVP
09-17-2006, 08:17 AM
Has anyone else heard that T-Mo. will not have any more Qwerty phones? Read this on blackberycool or bbhub. Stated at the end of the year the 8700 will be out the door. Hope this is not true. Anyone else heard of this?

ndirish2001
09-17-2006, 08:57 AM
Has anyone else heard that T-Mo. will not have any more Qwerty phones? Read this on blackberycool or bbhub. Stated at the end of the year the 8700 will be out the door. Hope this is not true. Anyone else heard of this?

I saw that and I don't believe it for a second. It makes no sense whatsoever. The source was a T-Mobile retail employee who I'm sure is very confused.

jungleland
09-17-2006, 09:32 AM
With all due respect, RIMM has significantly outperformed the NASDAQ since rumors of the Pearl began to leak...
Here's a link to a 3 mos. chart of RIM vs the NASDAQ as you suggest:
RIMM: Basic Chart for RESEARCH IN MOTION - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=3m&s=RIMM&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=&c=%5EIXIC)

I did a search on engadgetmobile.com and found that the first real leak of details and a picture of the 8100 came out on August 6.

On August 7 RIMM traded at 66.13 per share; on Sept 15 RIMM traded at 85.27. That's a gain of 29.94%.
On Aug 7 the NASDAQ closed at 2,072.50; on Sept. 15 the NASDAQ closed at 2,235.59. That's a gain of 7.87%.

The Wall Street Journal on Sept 7 reported "at Wednesday's close (9/6), RIM shares had surged 21% since the end of July, largely on speculation about the Pearl. Here's the link (subscription required):
WSJ.com - Login (http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20060907-710065.html?mod=wsjcrmain)

Clearly, for whatever reasons you want to believe, RIMM has outperformed the NASDAQ since the rumors hit. The Wall Street Journal, among others, believes that it is largely due to the leaked info on the Pearl. Now, BG may not be the only one responsible for those rumors, but he was certainly a major driver.




After this, I will leave it alone. Statistically, RIMM, and many other market leading technology stocks, greatly outperform the nasdaq during market up moves and under perform the market on down moves. Percentages are really not relevant here as most time the nasdaq moves one percent, RIMM, GOOG, SNDK and others move 2, 3, and sometimes four times that... So again, RIMM has not done something that it has not done previously during a market up move.

That's all...

thought
09-17-2006, 01:02 PM
From an earlier post, post #69:RIMM has traded WITH the Nasdaq, it is not under performing nor out performing.

From post #83:
Statistically, RIMM, and many other market leading technology stocks, greatly outperform the nasdaq during market up moves and under perform the market on down moves. Percentages are really not relevant here as most time the nasdaq moves one percent, RIMM, GOOG, SNDK and others move 2, 3, and sometimes four times that... So again, RIMM has not done something that it has not done previously during a market up move.

That's all...

With all due respect...you contradict yourself...
As seen in your quotes above, you clearly first asserted that RIMM did not outperform the market. Now, having been proven incorrect, you state that RIMM did outperform the NASDAQ, but both moved up, so it's no big deal.

That's a big change in what you wrote. If you are managing a hedge fund, I surely would want you to know the difference.

Why is it so hard to believe that rumors can move the value of a stock? Information is what moves markets.

jungleland
09-17-2006, 01:22 PM
With all due respect...you contradict yourself...
As seen in your quotes above, you clearly first asserted that RIMM did not outperform the market. Now, having been proven incorrect, you state that RIMM did outperform the NASDAQ, but both moved up, so it's no big deal.

That's a big change in what you wrote. If you are managing a hedge fund, I surely would want you to know the difference.

Why is it so hard to believe that rumors can move the value of a stock? Information is what moves markets.



WOW!! A major market stock outperforming it's respective market is now commonplace. Because it is now commonplace, it is no longer considered to be outperforming. I am not going to get into schooling you on the beta of a security. Fact is the beta of RIMM is almost 3, which means it is EXPECTED, and NORMAL for it to move 3x that of the nasdaq when it moves up or down.

I think I have proven my point. The fact the a chart posted previously show RIMM moving up nearly 30% in a period of time and the Nasdaq moving about 10% in said period SHOUTS in agreement with my point.

Have a nice day.....

BBAdmin
09-17-2006, 01:50 PM
I think the bigger picture here is whether or not leaking information to the public domain has a positive or negative impact on the companys share price. Has the share price risen at the time when BG leaked information on recent devices - YES. Do I believe the rise in share prices is due to leaks from BG - NO, not at all.

Traditionally the suits on Wall Street like to know what's going on with companies. When they are taken by surprise due to a leak (even if that leak spells positives for the company involved) it will generally result in the stock exchange not taking well to it and causes a little unrest.

Clearly this is something to which different people will have a different opinion based on their experience in the markets - I don't mind saying I have very little experience so most of what I write on this topic is assumption.

On the other side of things, being a techie I love to hear about what's coming next, and like the rest of us I get excited by the assumed specs (no matter how wide of the mark they are) and the grainy early pictures of a beta device! At the same time I get frustrated when I compare what I used to see at a RIM hosted event a year ago to what they are willing to show at RIM events now. Serious leaks have led to them becoming very paranoid, and in fact at the last RIM event I went to last month they only went as far as giving us specifications, no pictures or beta devices to hand around as would normally have been the case - so there are clearly advantages and disadvantages in all areas to leaking information.

thought
09-17-2006, 04:12 PM
WOW!! A major market stock outperforming it's respective market is now commonplace. Because it is now commonplace, it is no longer considered to be outperforming. I am not going to get into schooling you on the beta of a security. Fact is the beta of RIMM is almost 3, which means it is EXPECTED, and NORMAL for it to move 3x that of the nasdaq when it moves up or down.

I think I have proven my point. The fact the a chart posted previously show RIMM moving up nearly 30% in a period of time and the Nasdaq moving about 10% in said period SHOUTS in agreement with my point.

Have a nice day.....

I would guess then, that you believe that there are no individual factors that can move a stock, outside of it shadowing in various mulitples the moves of the general market.

Aside from that, your position puts you at odds with what was written in the Wall Street Journal, CBS MarketWatch, and The Globe and Mail, among other publications.

I agree with BB Admin: I believe the rumors had significant impact, but were not the only factor. However, for you to dismiss the impact of the rumors at all, seems rather unreasonable.

KlarUlz
09-17-2006, 07:43 PM
I saw that and I don't believe it for a second. It makes no sense whatsoever. The source was a T-Mobile retail employee who I'm sure is very confused.


T-Mobile has dug their feet in and promised to *always* have a full and partial keyboard BlackBerry as long as RIM keeps making them. The 8700 will be going out in Dec/Jan... when the 8800 comes out to replace it ;)

rambo47
09-17-2006, 08:31 PM
TheyT-Mobile is releasing the HTC Excalibur in a month or so. That's qwerty.

BBAdmin
09-18-2006, 05:10 AM
The 8700 will be going out in Dec/Jan... when the 8800 comes out to replace it

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding where the 8800 will sit in the BlackBerry range. It will run alondside the 8700, not replace it. RIM intend to keep making the 8700 for another year yet - think about it, when compared to the life span of other models the 8700 has not been out that long.

tmojay
09-23-2006, 10:29 PM
pictures are up on engadget

thought
09-23-2006, 11:14 PM
Check out this other thread on blackberryforums for the full scoop:

http://www.blackberryforums.com/rumor-mill/47938-what-do-you-think-about-8800-pictures-inside.html

The Truth
09-24-2006, 06:31 PM
Amen to that, canon is the best

Halleluja!

I was thinking the same thing. Plus the pearl's camera is horrible.

Jagga
09-25-2006, 02:33 AM
GSM/GPRS/EDGE - Quad-Band

I have a SERIOUS problem with this.

Rogers is to debut UMTS & HSDPA on BOTH 850+1900Mhz bands nationwide in Canada ... well mostly all major cities & capitals across. Cingular SHOULD've had it LONG by now. Less ppl per capita & less existing clients under contractual agreement (consumer or corps/business') and after 2+yrs of UMTS development is sad. Cingular still should have theirs by end of January 2007. It would be incredible, maybe not crucial, for RIMM to step up the game and lay done the ramparts to ship with HSDPA. Then again cost may be a factor to limit it.

> Hey if its 802.11b/g (hopefully "n" draft :D ) this would be incredible.

> MOST notably .... will the WiFi support SIP/PBX based VoIP? This would EFFECTIVELY replace the 7270!

rjharary
09-25-2006, 07:51 AM
[QUOTE=Jagga] Cingular SHOULD've had it LONG by now. Less ppl per capita & less existing clients under contractual agreement (consumer or corps/business') and after 2+yrs of UMTS development is sad. QUOTE]

You couldn't have said it better.

How does HSDPA on Cingular compare with EVDO?
(Think moto q vs. samsung i607)

Rubicant
10-05-2006, 09:14 AM
I dunno where BG gets his info...but think about it..how many times has he been right about this?
7100, 8700, 8100, now the 8800?
I dont know who his sources are, but they're highly placed and can skirt around NDAs...which means they're either RIM insiders in PR..or RIM designers.

BG has DEFINITELY got the hook up somewhere. note the fact that these device pics are unbranded...likely RIM designers/pr

That said...I doubt he'll be faced with the wrath of RIM..as if he were, this forum would have gotten a C&D letter, been forced to take down the pics and asked not to mention anything about BBs in development.

Remember folks..we have members who work for RIM. Everyone that I've spoken to on the marketing team that does the events is familiar with this site.
:)

That said..Keep up the good work BG! When is RIM going to integrate AIs into thier blackberry units and start something like the UMN from Xenosaga? :) (The new UNP Blackberry, capable of intergalactic calling...All from Vector Industries and Blackberry.)

sroetter
10-05-2006, 09:26 AM
I remember last year when the 8700 came out, BG was asked by RIM to remove some photos and information. I believe he alluded to lawyers and such. RIM apparently has some influence over him, or he would not have removed that information. Given that, I assume that his "leakage" is either approved by RIM, fed by RIM, or the results were so positive that RIM decided to let him run with it. I cannot imagine they let him run with it without some boundaries though.

That said, his information has always been rock solid and I look for his posts.

Boy Genius
10-05-2006, 11:00 AM
I remember last year when the 8700 came out, BG was asked by RIM to remove some photos and information. I believe he alluded to lawyers and such. RIM apparently has some influence over him, or he would not have removed that information. Given that, I assume that his "leakage" is either approved by RIM, fed by RIM, or the results were so positive that RIM decided to let him run with it. I cannot imagine they let him run with it without some boundaries though.

That said, his information has always been rock solid and I look for his posts.

Completely incorrect. That was Corey. I have never been asked by anyone at RIM to remove any pictures, or information. The information I provide is hard-earned. RIM is not happy about it, but in the end what can they do? I am a journalist, I don't break any NDA's or make other people brake NDA's.

sroetter
10-05-2006, 11:06 AM
My mistake. I was sure it was you, but it wouldn't be the first thing I was wrong about.........today. LOL

ndub33
10-05-2006, 11:08 AM
BG, it doesn't matter who your sources are, keep up the great work! I love reading your stuff.

bbmember
10-05-2006, 12:27 PM
Completely incorrect. That was Corey. I have never been asked by anyone at RIM to remove any pictures, or information. The information I provide is hard-earned. RIM is not happy about it, but in the end what can they do? I am a journalist, I don't break any NDA's or make other people brake NDA's.

Obviously you are not posting these images with any malicious intent, and maybe doing it just for having fun or feeling cool or for some financial benefit. But I don't think you are doing any company a favor by posting pictures of their products before they are officially announced.

Since you are soo popular here, I might get flamed for saying this, but the point I wanted to make is not to pick a fight with you, but rather get my point of view across to you on this topic.

Boy Genius
10-05-2006, 06:37 PM
That's your opinon and I appreciate you being civil about it. I don't completely disagree with you that i'm not doing anyone any "favors" but they have to realize that we live in a completely new era where people are literally going crazy for information on new products and technology. I am simply providing what I can to the public. Would you like to know whats in the pipeline for a company or rather wait for the "official" release date? If a company makes solid products, then all leaks will do is hype up the product until release date increasing sales. How would you know about the Pearl if it wasn't leaked? You would wait until September 6th, have had no user reviews and opinions, and would have been a pioneer. I would think most people would like to know that information before they went out and spent $400 on something. That's my feeling atleast. You make a crappy product, no amount of hype, or marketing is going to make that product sell.

Pizzle
10-05-2006, 06:47 PM
FWIW, I, for one, am a fan, BG. Keep up the good work. :)

K-Mack
10-05-2006, 06:53 PM
Thanks for what you do BG! 8-)

Boy Genius
10-05-2006, 07:01 PM
Haha thanks

MooseBerry
10-11-2006, 04:29 AM
BG, you're right when you say people go crazy over this stuff, I know I do! As for the leakes, they probably drove up RIM's stock and helps us make decisions about new purchases. If you know the 8100 is coming to cingular in Nov, would you go now and buy an 7130c or would you wait? Knowledge is a good thing, especially for consumers.

hf1khal
10-13-2006, 10:54 AM
Obviously you are not posting these images with any malicious intent, and maybe doing it just for having fun or feeling cool or for some financial benefit. But I don't think you are doing any company a favor by posting pictures of their products before they are officially announced.

Since you are soo popular here, I might get flamed for saying this, but the point I wanted to make is not to pick a fight with you, but rather get my point of view across to you on this topic.

Did you ever think thatr may be the Company is doing the leak for its own purposes? No mater what, BG has done BB a great service by letting us in on things of interest and I hope he will continue and my bet is that every one else thinks the same.

HaTaX
10-13-2006, 12:51 PM
I agree with BG on this one.

If we didn't have info on phones "leaked" there isn't really a good way to get info until they hit the street. Some cases it may make people ride their contract out a while longer as they see a light at the end of a tunnel. Others it may make them switch carriers because of a need for a particular feature a phone has.

For me personally it helps me gauge if I want to go buy that particular device or if the hype for it is unreasonable because of bugs in a feature or a particular carrier shutting off certain features.

All the hype around the product I think can do nothing but good things for a carrier and manufacturer, it gets product awareness up for something that can't even be sold yet, something stores and advertising can do, but not without $$ behind it. BG does all the work for them in this case, covers the basics, features, and also the annoyances that may drive some people away, saving the carrier and user $$ from that person signing up, and then walking away 14 days later and returning the phone..

Just my .02...

And as a side note, I have upgraded to an 8703e, and will get the 8800 when it comes out as I throughly loved my pearl, but would have perfered a qwerty board on it and also T-Mo service in my house was weak.. I have since found that Sprint service is also weak, Nextel was the only thing that worked well in my house. So I bought a YX500 repeater for my house, it's in the 1900 band and will cover EVDO, CDMA, GPRS, and EDGE in that 1900 band.. I fgured it's $200 out of pocket and then I don't need to worry about phone performance and battery life.. etc etc..

Sorry, that was off topic, back to where we were..

And you hear it all the time, but thanks again BG..