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Old 05-27-2008, 07:47 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Can BES be install on Windows 2008? Did anyone do it? I have a customer that what to it but I donít want to use an OS that is not tested.
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:31 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't believe BES will even install on Server 2008. Server 2008 is 64bit, and the current versions of BES will not run in a 64bit OS.
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Both 32 an 64 bits servers can be use for win2k8 so, that is not the case.
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
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There are several KB's that list Server 2008 in them, but I've not tried it and likely will not at this point. Personally, it certainly would not be something I'd suggest to even put into production at this point. I'd think maybe the SP6 release or the 5.0 release before I'd even look at it. I don't have large test environments like some of your out there though.
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:25 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I'd just like to add my 2c. Avoid 2k8 Server.

I attempted an upgrade to 2k8... It failed miserably. I had to restore from backups to go back to 2k3. The performance was also horrible.
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:24 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSylvia007 View Post
I'd just like to add my 2c. Avoid 2k8 Server.

I attempted an upgrade to 2k8... It failed miserably. I had to restore from backups to go back to 2k3. The performance was also horrible.

Hey There!

Just want to add, that an UPGRADE, like any other install, is never the best way to go. I currently have 12 W2k8 servers running in production and LOVE it... the roles are nice, the speed on a decent machine (NEW! ) with 8 gigs of ram, run this OS like a dream!

Also the way I suggest running the BES server, create a Hyper-VM (32 or 64bit of 2k3 and simply run your bes there, it works GREAT, and since RIM now supports 64bit 2k3 its well worth the migration path!


Hope my 2cnts doesnt offend, just defending a GREAT OS.... its comments like this, that make people HATE an OS even before giving it a true test! (Remember Vista...XP? )


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Old 08-06-2008, 09:29 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Wirelessly posted (8703e (Verizon Wireless))

No offense taken, and I'm using 2k8 in my own dev environment and really like the new features, but in a production, virtual environment on VMware, where an upgrade is the only option... This OS ran like crap.

I'd love to be able to give my domain controllers a full 8gb each, but this is extremely unrealistic.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Geez, 8gb? Our Win2k3 DCs have 2gb each.

Win2k8 is not ready for prime time yet. Most non-Microsoft apps do not have official support yet. You can use it for a DC or file server, but that is about it.
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeDude View Post
Win2k8 is not ready for prime time yet. Most non-Microsoft apps do not have official support yet. You can use it for a DC or file server, but that is about it.
Is this a joke? Just a few biggies from MSFT that are not a DC or File Server to start...

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Old 08-07-2008, 09:45 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorp508 View Post
Is this a joke? Just a few biggies from MSFT that are not a DC or File Server to start...

Exchange 2007 SP1
Systems Center Operations Manager
Systems Center Data Protection Manager
Systems Center Configuration Manager
Hyper-V
IIS 7 (Microsoft.com & Technet are run on IIS7 within 2008 Hyper-V machines)
SQL 2005
SQL 2008 (it RTM'd today)
All of those are MS products. So that makes sense. Most people here are running Exchange 2003 though, which does not work with 2k8.

The reason I said those are the main uses right now is because they are easy transitions. Upgrading a SQL or Exchange server is a big undertaking. Especially when you are not going to see a huge benefit to having them on 2k8 vs 2k3. Also most places I know of use VMware not Hyper-V. I have not used Hyper-V, but I would wager that VMware is probably a better product. We have used VMware for over 2 years and it has proven itself to be a very stable and reliable product.

My company has plans to upgrade our DCs to 2k8 within a year from now (it does offer much better management). We have a SAN as our main file server. All of our other MS servers have third party software on them which means they will not be able to get the 2k8 treatment for some time.
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeDude View Post
All of those are MS products.
Exactly... as are "DC" and "File Server", which you originally pointed out as being the only useful things for 2008 right now.

Quote:
The reason I said those are the main uses right now is because they are easy transitions. Upgrading a SQL or Exchange server is a big undertaking.
SQL upgrades are not that bad. If you have a DB with functions in it requiring 2000 or 2005 then you just run the DB in legacy mode for the version you need.

Quote:
Also most places I know of use VMware not Hyper-V.
This is pretty obvious since Hyper-V only RTM'd on June 26th 2008.

Quote:
I have not used Hyper-V, but I would wager that VMware is probably a better product. We have used VMware for over 2 years and it has proven itself to be a very stable and reliable product.
Both are great and have their places. ESX (for now) has enough HA features to make it attractive over Hyper-V. If you start to compare ESXi to Hyper-V though things start to change some.

Quote:
My company has plans to upgrade our DCs to 2k8 within a year from now (it does offer much better management).
I've already started converting some of our 135'ish DCs to 2008. I can't wait to get the whole thing converted as there is a lot of new stuff in 2008 which makes it desireable over 2003 AD.

Quote:
We have a SAN as our main file server.
Huh? SAN is not a file server. Do you mean a NAS device by any chance?

Quote:
All of our other MS servers have third party software on them which means they will not be able to get the 2k8 treatment for some time.
That is an awfully awfully big guesstimation to make.
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Old 08-07-2008, 01:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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A SAN is indeed a large file server. Ours currently has 14 500gb 7200rpm SATA drives for data storage. We will be adding 7 150gb 15000rpm SAS drives before the years end so we can virtualize our SQL server.

I do hope our third party software gains support for 2k8, but I am not going to hold my breath for it. Not to mention that it really would not add enough functionality to warrant the cost and time to upgrade it. Maybe in a few years.

Also here is a link to a wiki page about SANs: Storage area network - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. They are a really great storage option. They can be configured for large amounts of drives and expandable with additional racks which are connected via fiber. They are costly though.
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeDude View Post
A SAN is indeed a large file server. Ours currently has 14 500gb 7200rpm SATA drives for data storage. We will be adding 7 150gb 15000rpm SAS drives before the years end so we can virtualize our SQL server.
With due respect.. I think you need to go back and learn about what SAN/NAS/DAS truly are.

Quote:
Also here is a link to a wiki page about SANs: Storage area network - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. They are a really great storage option. They can be configured for large amounts of drives and expandable with additional racks which are connected via fiber. They are costly though.
Trust me, I don't need that and that little tidbit right there shows whoever the last schmuck to edit that Wiki was didn't have a clue. A "SAN" itself is not a file server. Not in the least.
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:02 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Usually when you tell someone they are wrong, you tell them why. So you can say I am wrong all you want. Until you tell me what you think a SAN is, I'll just assume I am right. When I mentioned it in the original post, you tried to correct me by asking if I were referring to a NAS. If a NAS isn't a file server either (which that is what it seems you are saying), why did you ask me if that is what I meant?

I don't mind being corrected. If I am wrong please let me know. But don't leave me ignorant, no one benefits from that.

BTW it is a wiki. If you think it is wrong, change it. That is the beauty of a wiki.
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:12 PM   #15 (permalink)
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SAN = is Storage Area Network, not a file server per se, but I get what he is saying.

Can't we all just get along?

Come on, e-hug
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
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<sigh>

I was giving you a chance to go and explore, learn, and develop on your own. It is how we learn best.

The reason I asked if you meant you were using a NAS device is because that would legitimately fall more in line with how you called a SAN a file server.

Direct Attached Storage

Storage directly attached to or internal to a host using a local disk controller. Think local SCSI, SATA, or EIDE drives internal to the host or to a local controller via short cable to a drive shelf.


Network Attached Storage

Storage located remote to the host which uses no local disk controller. This storage is accessed over the network stack. Think iSCSI, SMB, NFS. Many times these network reachable storage arrays can simply be large disk arrays attached to something like Windows Storage Server 2003 (or 2008 when it arrives) or a Unix front end so you can utilize your existing directory security structure, whatever it may be.


Storage Area Network

A dedicated network strictly for accessing disk storage. Up until recently this typically always meant single or multiple Fibre (not Fiber) Channel protocol switches connecting via Fiber Optical cables to a single or multiple disk arrays.

Hosts utilize Host Bus Adapter (HBA) cards to gain access to the SAN where the FC Switches would then route their WWN (World Wide Name, like an Ethernet MAC address) to the proper FA (Fibre Access) port on the target disk array (IBM Shark, EMC Symmetrix, EMC Clariion, etc...). On the disk array the various logical disks (the RAID containers, which can be made up of whole disks or hypers [slices] of disks) then have their associated Logical Disk Unit (LUN) masked to the proper FA so that the HBA connecting to that FA would gain access to the disk resources.

SANs by definition have gotten a little murkier now because there are also now cheaper iSCSI SANs, which allow you to throw Fibre Channel out the window and use cheaper networking gear. It is more like a NAS, but alike to FC SAN because you still target disks to certain iSCSI hosts. Some say they aren't quite as secure as FC SANs are, but I'm not experienced enough to give an opinion one way or another. Performance of a iSCSI SAN is typically not up to the same standards as a FC SAN is either. This may change over time as iSCSI matures more.

Then there is FCoE, Fibre Channel Over Ethernet, which FC-to-IP switches in order to use it. Kind of like iSCSI going over the network, but the benefits of FC when going long distances for things like geoclustering datacenters and stretching SANs between physical locations.

SANs today even have VSANs just like we have VLANs on our LANs.

And then the new fancy....

Tape Area Network

A dedicated network to data backup & restores.

========================

In a really short summary; A SAN is a dedicated storage network and nothing more. What you choose to do with a SAN can be nearly endless. If the storage is not segregated 100% from normal network traffic , then it really isn't a true SAN by definition. This includes data just being on a seperate VLAN because you're still sharing the same backplane & wires, thus a denial of service attack on your network side can still potentially bring down your storage.
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murpheous View Post
SAN = is Storage Area Network, not a file server per se, but I get what he is saying.
I see his belief too, but this is the kind of thing that can burn you if you show the wrong knowledge or pitch the wrong solution at the wrong time. We've all done it, we've all (hopefully) learned from it, so hopefully this is helpful.

Quote:
Can't we all just get along?

Come on, e-hug
e-hug? C'mon man we're both from MA. We can probably legally e-marry in this damn state.
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Well thank you for that. I always love learning new things. The guy who actually over saw the SAN installation is currently on vacation, so I didn't get the chance to ask him. But honestly, doesn't it serve the same function? I don't think it is that wrong to refer to it as a file server. Especially considering the lengthy explanation.

Fiber, fibre, as you can probably tell terminology isn't my thing. I generally don't retain what things are called, but I am good at knowing what they do and how they work.

So is it ok if I say it is like a file server?
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