BlackBerry Forums Support Community               

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-23-2008, 09:46 AM   #1 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Model: 7100T
Carrier: orange
Posts: 10
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Virtualizing BES and SQL

Please Login to Remove!

Hi All

Need some advice and recommendations etc

Currently we are thinking of deploying a BES architecture as follows

4 BES servers each server hosting 500 users
1 SQL server to service only the above environment

my question is

We wish to place this on a single physical server inside a VMware environment and I am wondering:

1) If this is supported

2) What the recommended hardware requirements would be for this environment

Regards

Tony
Offline  
Old 06-23-2008, 09:50 AM   #2 (permalink)
BlackBerry God
 
penguin3107's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Model: iOS 5
Carrier: VZW
Posts: 11,701
Post Thanks: 1
Thanked 237 Times in 219 Posts
Default

The current version of BES installed in a virtual machine (VMware ESX 3 as host) is supported. Virtualizing your 4 BES servers is an effective way of taking advantage of a single piece of hardware and lowering your TCO.

While putting SQL in a VM will probably work... I strongly advise against this.
SQL databases should not be running in a virtual environment. Put SQL on dedicated hardware.
With 500 users... you'd likely have some serious performance problems by virtualizing SQL.

The BES documentation (Installation Guide) will explain your hardware requirements in detail.
__________________
BCSA
BES 5.0.3 MR4 :-: Exchange 2007 SP3 RU3
http://port3101.org

Last edited by penguin3107 : 06-23-2008 at 09:51 AM.
Offline  
Old 06-23-2008, 09:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Model: 8100
PIN: N/A
Carrier: Vodaphone
Posts: 8
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

We have a 2 BES server (roughly 250 users on each) environment working from 1 SQL instance. This is all virtualised, the 2 servers are dual core 3 ghz, with 4 gigs of RAM which is more than enough. I'm not sure about official support for virtualisation, but it seems to work fine.
Offline  
Old 06-23-2008, 09:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
jaztek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicago
Model: 8830
PIN: N/A
Carrier: Verizon
Posts: 51
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Normally, I would agree as well with the SQL being separated, however if this is the only thing being housed on this ESX box, I would go with the following recommendation of hardware..

Dual Quad-Core, 3.0Ghz or more, 16GB-24GB RAM,....

You could probably get away with 5 hard drives (2 os, raid1, 3 data raid5) with scsi or sas drives...

Or if you have a SAN that would be even better...

Normally SQL should be separate, but in this case, I don't believe this box will be throttled ..
Offline  
Old 06-23-2008, 10:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
BlackBerry God
 
penguin3107's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Model: iOS 5
Carrier: VZW
Posts: 11,701
Post Thanks: 1
Thanked 237 Times in 219 Posts
Default

4 BES, with 500 users each... that's 2000 users total.
All 4 BES will be hitting the same SQL config database, which is to be virtualized on the same hardware as the 4 BES? Definitely not a good idea.
__________________
BCSA
BES 5.0.3 MR4 :-: Exchange 2007 SP3 RU3
http://port3101.org
Offline  
Old 06-23-2008, 10:36 AM   #6 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
jaztek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicago
Model: 8830
PIN: N/A
Carrier: Verizon
Posts: 51
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

BES servers act as a "pass through" for exchange with the MAPI connection... utilizing very little cpu process and ram..

With the configuration I recommended, 4 BES Servers would probably utilize %10 of the boxes' resources....

90% would be for your SQL server...


Penquin please review the hardware config I recommended... Normally SQL is the recommended to be on a separate, physical box .. but in this instance, I disagree...

BES Servers just doesn't take up much resources....
Offline  
Old 06-23-2008, 10:57 AM   #7 (permalink)
BlackBerry God
 
penguin3107's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Model: iOS 5
Carrier: VZW
Posts: 11,701
Post Thanks: 1
Thanked 237 Times in 219 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaztek View Post
BES servers act as a "pass through" for exchange with the MAPI connection... utilizing very little cpu process and ram..

With the configuration I recommended, 4 BES Servers would probably utilize %10 of the boxes' resources....

90% would be for your SQL server...


Penquin please review the hardware config I recommended... Normally SQL is the recommended to be on a separate, physical box .. but in this instance, I disagree...

BES Servers just doesn't take up much resources....
I am very familiar with the hardware configurations and requirements.
You're only considering mail flow, and you're oversimplifying what BES is responsible for.

There's more to BES than just mail. You'll have MDS-CS traffic, Logging, Policy Services, Synchronization services, Collaboration services, application push, etc.
Those all take up CPU cycles and RAM as well.

What you're suggesting will likely work, but it's far from ideal.
2000 users is too manyu to have on a virtualized SQL database, especially when that same hardware is being used for 4 other VMs running active BES instances.
__________________
BCSA
BES 5.0.3 MR4 :-: Exchange 2007 SP3 RU3
http://port3101.org
Offline  
Old 06-23-2008, 02:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
BlackBerry Genius
 
hdawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Model: hdawg
PIN: port3101.org
Carrier: hdawg
Posts: 6,632
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

... if you must virtualize SQL be smart enough to allocate it enough RAM and think about giving it its own dedicated spindles.

Also, make sure you're using the DBNS; it'll help lighten the sql load.

As a general recommendation I'd never virtualize SQL (unless in a test lab or DR scenario); but to each environment its own.
Offline  
Old 06-24-2008, 02:17 AM   #9 (permalink)
Talking BlackBerry Encyclopedia
 
boma0021's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: LE
Model: Pearl
Carrier: T-Mobile
Posts: 202
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

even it is not really recommended to put the sql on same box. i have a site with three bes and one sql on vm around 1600 users. it works since three years we put on vm ware even RIM was not supporting it at that time. just make sure as hdwag already said to give the sql enough resources.
Offline  
Old 06-25-2008, 06:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
CrackBerry Addict
 
Jagga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Toronto
Model: Z10
Carrier: Lord Rogers - 107
Posts: 862
Post Thanks: 6
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by penguin3107 View Post
I am very familiar with the hardware configurations and requirements.
You're only considering mail flow, and you're oversimplifying what BES is responsible for.

There's more to BES than just mail. You'll have MDS-CS traffic, Logging, Policy Services, Synchronization services, Collaboration services, application push, etc.
Those all take up CPU cycles and RAM as well.

What you're suggesting will likely work, but it's far from ideal.
2000 users is too manyu to have on a virtualized SQL database, especially when that same hardware is being used for 4 other VMs running active BES instances.
Thank you for this post. Also take note the scheduled delays that the BES does from time to time - something seemless when downtime happens - I cannot recall what is scheduled auto by BES to be delayed.
__________________
Senior help desk administrator (rim_db_admin_sr_helpdesk)
Serious Mobile
Offline  
Old 06-25-2008, 10:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
BlackBerry Genius
 
hdawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Model: hdawg
PIN: port3101.org
Carrier: hdawg
Posts: 6,632
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagga View Post
Thank you for this post. Also take note the scheduled delays that the BES does from time to time - something seemless when downtime happens - I cannot recall what is scheduled auto by BES to be delayed.
Application Deployment? That's about it.
Offline  
Old 06-26-2008, 03:35 AM   #12 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Model: 7100T
Carrier: orange
Posts: 10
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

How intensive is the SQL database if is only used for the BES environment , like I said assume eventually 4 BES servers each hosting 500 users that being 2000 users in all.

SQL can be virtualized it all depends on what kind of disk transactions it is undertaking .. you know the I/O stuff?

Is SQL in a BES environment high I/O intensive for disk reads and writes?
Offline  
Old 06-26-2008, 07:16 AM   #13 (permalink)
Talking BlackBerry Encyclopedia
 
TreeDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Western NY, USA
Model: iPn4S
OS: iOS 7.0.1
PIN: 76E5A626
Carrier: Verizon
Posts: 243
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

The latest version of ESX fully supports SQL (well it did before, but now we have VMware's blessing). We plan on offloading our less intense SQL databases to a virtual SQL server in the future. Our BES only has 25 users though, so it is a pretty light database. With 2000 users you may want to keep it physical. That is going to be a lot of I/Os. I know we are not putting our most intense database (Image Right) in a virtual environment.

If you really are going to go virtual I would keep a physical server on standby just in case.
__________________
Technical Engineer III

BES was decommissioned. Currently using iPhones with Lotus Notes Traveler 9.0.

Last edited by TreeDude : 06-26-2008 at 07:17 AM.
Offline  
Old 06-26-2008, 07:17 AM   #14 (permalink)
BlackBerry God
 
penguin3107's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Model: iOS 5
Carrier: VZW
Posts: 11,701
Post Thanks: 1
Thanked 237 Times in 219 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeDude View Post
With 500 users you may want to keep it physical.
Actually it's 2000 users.
He wants 4 virtualized BES with 500 users EACH.... plus a virtualized SQL database.
__________________
BCSA
BES 5.0.3 MR4 :-: Exchange 2007 SP3 RU3
http://port3101.org
Offline  
Old 06-26-2008, 07:33 AM   #15 (permalink)
Talking BlackBerry Encyclopedia
 
TreeDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Western NY, USA
Model: iPn4S
OS: iOS 7.0.1
PIN: 76E5A626
Carrier: Verizon
Posts: 243
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by penguin3107 View Post
Actually it's 2000 users.
He wants 4 virtualized BES with 500 users EACH.... plus a virtualized SQL database.
Heh, your quick. I realized and made the edit right after I posted it .
__________________
Technical Engineer III

BES was decommissioned. Currently using iPhones with Lotus Notes Traveler 9.0.
Offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





Copyright 2004-2014 BlackBerryForums.com.
The names RIM and BlackBerry are registered Trademarks of BlackBerry Inc.