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Old 05-26-2010, 04:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Hi,

We've had a Blackberry stolen from one of our offices and so we've done the usual wipe/disable and applied our custom "I've been stolen policy".

Problem is, the guy who has this device associated with him now has a new BB and I need to activate it. If I do will the stolen devices PIN not drop off our server and loose our policies? So, how do I keep the old device on our server but not associated to a mailbox?

Thanks,
Matt
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Orinoko View Post
Problem is, the guy who has this device associated with him now has a new BB and I need to activate it.
Why is that a problem? Just activate the new device for the user.

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Originally Posted by Orinoko View Post
If I do will the stolen devices PIN not drop off our server and loose our policies?
You already wiped the old device. It's off your BES at this point.
It will retain the last policy it had before the wipe occurred... unless your IT policy was set to reset to factory settings as part of the wipe.
Additionally, if you wiped the device before you pushed your "I've been stolen" IT policy to the handheld... there's no way the handheld could have ever received that policy.
You'd need to push the policy to the handheld before the wipe.

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So, how do I keep the old device on our server but not associated to a mailbox?
There's no reason to do this at all.
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Last edited by penguin3107 : 05-26-2010 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:48 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I was under the impression that if I wipe the device the PIN is still linked to our server then it cannot be activated on another server, is that not right?
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:55 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I was under the impression that if I wipe the device the PIN is still linked to our server then it cannot be activated on another server, is that not right?
No, that's not correct.
Once you wipe the device, it's gone off your BES and no longer under your control.
Whoever has the device can do whatever they want with it.
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Old 05-26-2010, 09:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by penguin3107 View Post
You already wiped the old device. It's off your BES at this point.
Interesting, I did not know once you did a wipe it is completely off the BES. If that is in fact the case, why would you not be able to setup another device with the same email address? All BAS cares about is if the email address is being occupied and won't let you create another user until the previous is removed?

Another question: So let's say the end user finds his 'stolen' BB. You would not be able to push the service books and IT policies back to the device, even though the device PIN and email address are still stored in the BAS?

I guess the next question would be what's the logic behind BAS not automatically removing the information after a wipe? Is it that BAS is not smart enough to recognize the difference between a wipe and the activation being erroneously dropped?
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Old 05-26-2010, 09:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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To be honest i'm a little disappointed. I thought that once a device was on your BES it's PIN was linked until you as the admin deleted it. So if someone nicked a device and entered the password wrong enough times it would wipe and they could use it as their own device?
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:06 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Interesting, I did not know once you did a wipe it is completely off the BES. If that is in fact the case, why would you not be able to setup another device with the same email address? All BAS cares about is if the email address is being occupied and won't let you create another user until the previous is removed?
You won't need to create the user again. The user is still on the BES, the device is no longer associated with it. Just like if the user would remove the IT policy, wipe the device, or enter the incorrect password too many times. It would break connection with the BES.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pootshwan View Post
Another question: So let's say the end user finds his 'stolen' BB. You would not be able to push the service books and IT policies back to the device, even though the device PIN and email address are still stored in the BAS?
No, the device no longer has contact with the BES. You would have to reactivate the device on the BES.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pootshwan View Post
I guess the next question would be what's the logic behind BAS not automatically removing the information after a wipe? Is it that BAS is not smart enough to recognize the difference between a wipe and the activation being erroneously dropped?
If the device breaks connection with the BES, it doesn't mean it is removed from the BES. If a user doesn't pay their bill and the BES can't connect due to the data plan being shut off, would you want the BES to remove that user? If a user is out of coverage for a while and the BES can't make contact to the device, would you want the BES to delete that user.

If the user enters the incorrect password too many times or upgrades their OS, that breaks connection with the BES as well, would you want the BES to delete the device then.

This is just how the BES works. It doesn't remove the user from the server, it just is no longer able to communicate with the device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orinoko View Post
To be honest i'm a little disappointed. I thought that once a device was on your BES it's PIN was linked until you as the admin deleted it. So if someone nicked a device and entered the password wrong enough times it would wipe and they could use it as their own device?
That's correct. Unless you called the carrier and reported the device stolen.
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:31 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
So if someone nicked a device and entered the password wrong enough times it would wipe and they could use it as their own device?
I did not even think of this scenario. That's interesting.
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:46 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Keep in mind that it will still have the IT policy on it unless as part of the wipe it reset to factory as Penguin stated above.
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:35 AM   #10 (permalink)
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To clarify RIM's POV - and perhaps a realists POV, they don't care about the device itself, they care about the data on the device. Sure, I'd like to be able send a self destruct sequence to a BB, but I'm guessing there's a liability issue somewhere in there ;).

Some carriers will black list devices so they can't be used on their network but that's a separate issue.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:25 AM   #11 (permalink)
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If the device is wiped then it is not linked to your BES Server.

You can get a carrier to Blacklist the device. That way, if someone goes in to activate it on the same carrier then they will know that it is a stolen device.

However, if it is an unlocked worldphone or gsm/gprs/edge device then they can go to another carrier. CDMA devices are usually added to carrier systems and cannot be switched over to another CDMA carrier.

BUT, RIM can also disable the PIN in their systems which will prevent the theif from being able to use data. For instance, BES, BIS, Email, IM, etc... The phone still works though.

As long as the data was removed from the device then you should be good to go... Just make sure to contact the carrier and report it stolen. Then talk to RIM and ensure that the PIN is disabled. (they CAN look it up if you have the PIN # still).
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Old 06-03-2010, 12:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Have you ever had luck with Roger's blocking a PIN? The one time I tried it, they laughed and said, "We don't do that".
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:24 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TargetIT View Post
Have you ever had luck with Roger's blocking a PIN? The one time I tried it, they laughed and said, "We don't do that".
From the carrier's POV, a stolen device equals to a new device sale, and a full-price one.
More stolen devices means more sales.
And more sales means... oh, well...
I guess that's where the good laugh comes from.

AFAIK, here in France, you need to first file a theft report to the police (go to the police station, wait, fill in forms and stuff...), and then only get back to your carrier and ask for the phone (IMEI) to be blacklisted.
That's enough of a burden that no one will do it.
And of course, you have no way to know whether the phone has indeed been blacklisted or not.
It be intersting to falsely report an old phone as stolen, then try to use it, but that of course would mean lying to the police in the first place.
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