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Old 08-10-2013, 08:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

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I've posted before about trying to get to BB10. I've got an older environment (SBS2003) which I am now going to upgrade. This has been a frustrating task in itself as MS has furher complicated things by basically getting rid of Small Business Server. Based on that I am going to build a new server using SBS 2011 and migrate my 2003 environment to it. SBS 2012 no longer includes an exchange server so I'm having to use SBS 2011.

So I figure all will be hunky dory when I get to the new environment because I will meet the requirements for BES10. But I've come up with another hitch... Coexisting BES 5 and 10.

So, I just read another post that says I can put BES 4&10 on my new server? I'm running BES4.1.4 currently. Will I be able to run these both on my new server so I can migrate my account first, work out the bugs and then migrate my boss's account?

Thanks.

Roveer

Last edited by roveer : 08-10-2013 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:59 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

If you look into the bes compatibility matrix, you see that running a BES4.1 is very unsupported on a Server 2008R2x64. Since you now plan to decomission the SBS2003, and, finally, there will no use for the BES4, why not use the grace period of 21 days which microsoft allows, to run both old an new SBS boxes in parallel ?

I still recommend to go for a virtualized environment consisting of a Server 2008R2 Standard as Hypervisor + SBS2011, and a second instance of 2008R2 for the BES10, or Server 2012/2008R2 as Hypervisor + SBS2003 plus a second instance of 2008R2 for the BES.
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody7290 View Post
If you look into the bes compatibility matrix, you see that running a BES4.1 is very unsupported on a Server 2008R2x64. Since you now plan to decomission the SBS2003, and, finally, there will no use for the BES4, why not use the grace period of 21 days which microsoft allows, to run both old an new SBS boxes in parallel ?

I still recommend to go for a virtualized environment consisting of a Server 2008R2 Standard as Hypervisor + SBS2011, and a second instance of 2008R2 for the BES10, or Server 2012/2008R2 as Hypervisor + SBS2003 plus a second instance of 2008R2 for the BES.
Thanks for the reply. In order to het virtualization capabilities I believe I must use the essentials versions which are 1,500 dollars more than the STD versions. That's just too expensive for my 4 user environment.

The grace period is interesting

What about upgrading to one of the BES express versions. Are they supported on the newer 64bit servers? I was going to upgrade a while back but never did.

Last edited by roveer : 08-11-2013 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

Virtualization is not $xxxx. Just buy a license of 2008R2 standard ($400), or Server 2012 standard plus CALs in the addition of a standard sbs20011.

Install one instance of 2008R2 as the hypervisor, in another guet install the sbs2011, and in another guest a second instance of server 2008R2.

The only difference for you is that you then have no SQL server (which you dont need anyway, because bes can use its own sql2009 express)

Or: buy a copy of 2008R2, virtualize the sbs2003 on the new hardware (a quick clone with disk2vhd will do), and use a second 2008R2 instance for the BES.

(I already suggested this, but, maybe it was hard to understand ?)

Last edited by nobody7290 : 08-11-2013 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:07 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

I think I asked this in my previous post, but what if I upgraded to BES 5.0.4, wouldn't that run on a server in addition to BES 10? It shows as supported in the matrix. Wouldn't that solve my problem? I remember a while ago I registered for a license for the newer software (can't remember what version), express? but never installed it. Someplace I have a hardcopy of the license.

I'm sure from your point of view virtualization makes absolute sense. I build homes, not administer servers. Back when I was in IT we were at the very beginning of virtualization and I did get a little exposure to it, but not nearly enough to feel anywhere comfortable enough to consider running my small office environment on it. I could only imagine the knowledge you guys have that are on top of present day virt, but alas, I am not. One server, one hardware, that's the way it needs to be for me in this very small environment. I'll figure out a way to get upgraded and deal with the BB version issues. Right now my boss is on a kick where he won't give up his trackball on his 9800 and makes fun of everyone walking around swiping and gesturing. I have to say, he can really tear on his 9800 one handed. Don't believe that's very easy on any modern gesture phone. I keep telling him he's going to have to move forward. Right now that might be a bigger problem than any server version I'm running.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

BES 5.0.X should run concurrently with the 10.1.x Server on one machine.
However, there is additional pain to upgrade your BES 4.x to 5.X. Also, There is no in place upgrade path from BES 4 to BES express 5.
If you want to run everything on one server, then use the microsoft migration toolkit and the 21 days grace period. After that decomission the old SBS2003 and the BES 4.X.

I am a small business guy as you. My BES installations are from 1 to 10 users. I think virtualization makes many thing easier, regardless if your are running a small or a big shop. If problems occur, they only affect one instance if you have virtualized a server, not everyhting. But, of course its your very own decision.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:36 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

are you running BPS 4.1.4 or full BES 4? i ask because you can get full BES 5 for free if on full BES.

Transporter can be used to move users or look at these options

BES/SBE/BPS 4.x upgrade options to BES Express 5.0 - BlackBerry Support Community Forums
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

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Originally Posted by knottyrope View Post
are you running BPS 4.1.4 or full BES 4? i ask because you can get full BES 5 for free if on full BES.

Transporter can be used to move users or look at these options

BES/SBE/BPS 4.x upgrade options to BES Express 5.0 - BlackBerry Support Community Forums
I'm running 4.1.4 but I have a few questions.

I sounds like I could (after I upgrade my SBS server to the 2011 version, run BES Express 5.0.5 AND BES 10 on the same box until I've upgraded both blackberries to 10. This might only be a few weeks if everything goes well. My boss saw the Q10 today and is getting over his trackball obsession.

I've read a few horror stories about getting BES express to run on SBS 2011 but there seemed to be work around.

But here is my real question:

Why would I need to try and "move" the BES users over? We don't use policies or anything like that, we just synch our email, cal, notes. I always figured when we went to a new BES it would be a fresh start. I've always had sync errors in the 4.1.4 versions and really wanted to get away from the old stuff. What am I missing about this? Can't I just walk away from the old BES and start fresh with new activations and grab the 30 days of email etc? I've always wondered why I would want to try and migrate BES?

So, based on that, can't I just install the free BESX5 and start fresh or did it require me to have a full version pervious?

This is an awful lot of work just for 2 BB's, considering this is triggering a server upgrade (long overdue), and as a result, new desktops with win 7, which is triggering new software (our contact manager) and MS Office. While I am at it, our VPN Router/Gateways are very old and in need of upgrade. I'm figuring this upgrade will cost around 10K for hardware and software and then my time on top. Pretty hefty just because I want a new flashy phone

Thanks for all your help and suggestions. It's really helped me work my way through all of the pitfalls.

Roveer
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:54 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

install BES express and activate the device then, your choice

you will need BES 10 for the Q10 unless you want to use only EAS
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Old 08-14-2013, 06:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

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Originally Posted by knottyrope View Post
install BES express and activate the device then, your choice

you will need BES 10 for the Q10 unless you want to use only EAS
Dont' want to use just EAS, want all the security and outbound only that BES provides. Read more than one article about EAS inbound intrusion and ability to shutdown services and possibly deliver malicious payloads. Just don't need that hassle.

Still struggling to understand why I would need/want to migrate my BES users from my 4.1.4 environment? Is it necessary for just email/cal/notes sync? Wouldn't just starting a new activation of BESX5 do the same thing? Wouldn't the device backup just happen on activation? What am I missing?

Roveer
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Old 08-14-2013, 06:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

BES 4.x will not run on your SBS2011 box. If you have a mixed environment with BES5 + BES10 handhelds, then you have to keep running a BES5 server.

If you just inst all a new BESx Express V5, erase all devices, and, activate, everyhing will be fine, but, all device data will be lost (besides the Exchange stuff). If this does not hurt you, go on.

But If you only have one user (guess), which later will be on BES10, why do you want to install BES5 anyway ?
Install the new SBS2011 box, (virtualized or not), migrate your Exchange data from 2003 to 2011, and install BES10.
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody7290 View Post
BES 4.x will not run on your SBS2011 box. If you have a mixed environment with BES5 + BES10 handhelds, then you have to keep running a BES5 server.

If you just inst all a new BESx Express V5, erase all devices, and, activate, everyhing will be fine, but, all device data will be lost (besides the Exchange stuff). If this does not hurt you, go on.

But If you only have one user (guess), which later will be on BES10, why do you want to install BES5 anyway ?
Install the new SBS2011 box, (virtualized or not), migrate your Exchange data from 2003 to 2011, and install BES10.
I've got a total of 2 BB users. I've got 2 questions.

1. you mention "all device data will be lost" Exactly what is the device data that will be lost? if we are talking about all of the device settings and apps (that would be backed up), than I don't believe that's a problem. I can do BB device backup on desktop manager. if it's something else, than please explain.

2. Won't this data once again be backed up once I activate the BB's on the new Besx5 installation and then again when I finally get them to BES10?

I'm going through all of this because I would like to upgrade my server to SBS 2011, migrate my exchange to the new server, NOT have to go out in the middle of the server migration and get 2 new BB10 phones and deal with all the issues of new phones, new features etc. NOT have to commit to BES10 working right after a hefty server migration which will bring it's own challenges not only with the server, but with the desktops that come along with it. But to just keep going on our 9810 phones. Then, allow me to install BES 10 and migrate my phone to a BB10 phone and work out any bugs, then migrate the boss.

You see, in our environment, even with just 2 phones, the loss of email on the phone is about as bad as it gets. Just getting the window to allow for the upgrade 6+ hours will be difficult. These phones and their function really are the lifeblood of our business. I can't afford to have any missteps here and things have to go smoothly.

So, if BESx5 will run along side of BB10 on the SBS2011 server once I migrate from SBS2003, than I'll do that. This way, I don't have to face as many potential problems (although SBS2011 and BESx have a handful of their own). Then I can upgrade the phones once the new server is stable and I'm never committed to everything getting upgraded all at once. Try to spread out the pain as far as possible. it's really no fun doing this basically without support, on a weekend and not a lot of easy ways to go backwards if something doesn't work. I will say, I very much appreciate all the help I get from message boards and thank everyone who contributes. You'll find that I will contribute where I can on topics that I have worthy knowledge of.

Roveer
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:33 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

So, if BESx5 will run along side of BB10 on the SBS2011 server once I migrate from SBS2003, than I'll do that.

then do that
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

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So, if BESx5 will run along side of BB10 on the SBS2011 server once I migrate from SBS2003, than I'll do that.

then do that
Shy the short, terse response? You usally provide valuable helpful information. Did I say something wrong. If I did, I apologize. I just have to beat this to death so when I'm sitting in the middle of what I know will be a challenging upgrade I have as much information as possible. Again, as I've said before, I thank you for your input.

Roveer
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Old 08-16-2013, 10:12 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

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Originally Posted by roveer View Post
I've got a total of 2 BB users. I've got 2 questions.

1. you mention "all device data will be lost" Exactly what is the device data that will be lost? if we are talking about all of the device settings and apps (that would be backed up), than I don't believe that's a problem. I can do BB device backup on desktop manager. if it's something else, than please explain.

2. Won't this data once again be backed up once I activate the BB's on the new Besx5 installation and then again when I finally get them to BES10?

Roveer

1 a wipe is a wipe, all is gone once done unless you do a backup

2 nothing is transfered from BES 5 to BES 10, Link will do some things but not that much will be transfered.
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Old 08-16-2013, 10:23 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: BES5 to 10 in a small environment, frustrations...

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Originally Posted by roveer View Post
Shy the short, terse response? You usally provide valuable helpful information. Did I say something wrong. If I did, I apologize. I just have to beat this to death so when I'm sitting in the middle of what I know will be a challenging upgrade I have as much information as possible. Again, as I've said before, I thank you for your input.

Roveer
TBH, most of what you want to do could have been searched for on the forums and then to find out its for 2 devices kinda put me off. I know its important to you and your job, been there done that, but you did get your answers and then asked for confirmation and I gave it. I dont have all the time in the world to give nice detailed answers all the time. I do this for fun when I get down time at the office.

I do appreciate your thanks as not enough say thanks these days. Happy Friday
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