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Old 08-10-2018, 06:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

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A friend gave me his old Blackberry Classic Model#SQC100-4. I tried to use it for a few weeks and it was at at Software Release 10.3.3.1463, os version 10.3.3.2205, build 903214. before I did a hard reset(see below). I am only going to use this phone strictly as a wifi device or terminal, similar to my Samsung Galaxy 7 tablet. It has no SIM card and I will not use it as a phone. At home it works great and I can stream music and download files with no problem. However, it has problems when I take it to the gym to workout. The first time I used it, it connected okay and streamed music for about an hour. After that first time, it would connect okay but within a minute I would lose access to the internet. It shows that I am still connected to the network with a good signal and I have seen a message telling me that I am connected to the network but not to the internet. My Samsung tablet sitting beside the Blackberry works fine - no issues at all - the same for a friends iphone 5(with no sim card either) - so it does not seem to be a network issue. I have googled the web for an answer. Found things like looking at browser options but can't find anywhere that says switch to hotspot browser. I've looked at connection advanced details - can't find anything to change. Another site suggested that I look into Developper options but there is nothing there either. Many of these web pages dealt with other Blackberry phones - not my model. When I couldn't find any solution, I decided to try reseting(hard reset) the device because it did work for an hour the first time I used it so maybe something I installed or a software update caused the problem. I used the reload function in Blackberry Link and it wiped the phone and restored it to "factory" reset(which is how I received it from my friend). I went through the setup again and, without loading any apps at all, I tried using the phone again at the gym. I used the browser to find a half-hour youtube video and it played about 5 minutes before the internet died again. I was still connected to network, with ip-address and good signal strength. Bringing up the browser on a new page for google.com eventually timed out with the message Host name not found. I now feel that I can eliminate any of the apps I installed before the reset and that the problem is something in the blackberry 10OS. After the reset I have Blackberry OS10.3.3.2137. Has anyone seen this or have any ideas as to what is causing this? Is there some diagnostic app that I can download to trace things. I tried the logs in the wifi settings but nothing stood out saying error or anything like that. I posted this on another site and got no response so I'm not sure whether this problem is something simple that I should know or whether its really complicated and no-one has any ideas. At this point I would welcome any suggestion or comment - even if its just to say that there is no way to tell what is going wrong.
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Old 08-10-2018, 07:42 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

The only thought i have is there is a conflict in the network settings. You might try turning off the wireless cell network and just have the WIFI on.
Also make sure the files are not being stored and the memory is causing issues.
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

The description (works as expected at home, but not at gym) suggests to me the problem is not the device.

Before doing anything more extreme, I would have tried first just turning wifi off and then turning it back on.

By the way, in BlackBerry terminology, a hard reset on devices with a removable battery is removing the battery while the device is turned on, and then putting the battery back after 30 seconds. I would have tried that second.

If the first two steps didn't solve the issue, I would have then deleted the wifi profile, performed a hard reset (as described in the paragraph above) and then added the wifi network again.

As far as the actual problem, who knows. I doubt it was the device, per se, and likely a reset to factory settings or os reload was unnecessary. My guess is either corrupt profile or an issue with the gym wifi network. Maybe the gym wifi network capacity is insufficient---that is what being connected but no throughput suggests to me.
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Old 08-11-2018, 01:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

Good point, I missed the fact that it works at home well. Now I'm wondering if the Gym is restricting him for some reason or is overloaded. Also try a different browser if one is on the phone. Reading some other sites the issue seems to be browser incompatibility with the router equipment or software used by some public sites. downloading a different browser may work.
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

First, I want to thank both of you for replying to my post. Up til now, I haven't had anyone else to discuss this with so your input and suggestions are really appreciated.

In the first post, Tsac asked about memory. The device shows that 8.8gb of the 16gb are free/unused. Nothing I am listening to or downloading should be larger than 200-300mb.

Aiharkness, the first thing I tried was turning wifi off and then back on. The result is that the device works again for another few minutes and then it loses internet again. Each time I check the wifi data - always shows connected, good signal strength. I don't always get the same IP address either.

I read that removing the battery was one form of resetting a cell phone but I don't know if this can be done with the Blackberry classic. I found a number of websites that said the Classic was "designed with a non-removable" battery. There was a video on another blackberry forum showing a lot of dismantling of the case had to be done. I would rather not damage the case since I plan to give the phone back to my friend if I can't get it to work.

I have deleted and re-added the WIFI profile two or three times. An instructor at the gym helped me use their staff wifi but I had the same issues as the regular wifi.

Bandwidth or capacity at the gym has never been a problem. My Samsung tablet connects and runs fine for past 2-3 years. One of my tests was to try using both the Samsung and the Blackberry and then the Samsung, Blackberry and iPhone5 at the same time. In all tests, the Samsung and iPhone ran fine - no speed degradation or loss of signal or buffering. Today the place was nearly empty after my workout so I tried an even simpler test. I just googled speedtest and ran the one that opens on the search webpage. Samsung would run the test over and over and get good throughput (download 19mbs). Blackberry would run test once but the second time it would freeze/stop/lock up. Needle would just stop or freeze midway up and pressing start or stop below the dial wouldn't do a thing. I turned wifi off and then back on and test would complete. Next test might work but the following one would lock up again.

The first time I used the Blackberry it ran for close to an hour. I'm wondering if some software update has done something and if it would do any good to go back to an older version of the Blackberry OS - if this is 10.3 then maybe 10.2? Is there any way to do this with the Classic? I've seen instructions for other models.

I'm also wondering about the mobile network settings. I've tried mobile network on and off but doesn't seem to make any difference. Is there any mobile setting that could cause the phone to just stop connecting to the network. Might there be some kind of limit - only so many minutes or GB of download? I've gone through all of the settings but I haven't seen anything. On the other hand, I don't have a regular cellphone or mobile plan so I don't really know what to look for.

Again, thanks to both of you for your suggestions. If you can help further it would be fantastic but, if not, I really appreciate your time and interest in my problem.
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

Sorry. I'm not sure why I was thinking you were asking about a legacy BBOS device. But for the BlackBerry models with non-removable battery, the battery-removal hard reset is in fact not possible. However, there are other methods with the models. One is to hold down the power button until the device restarts and the BlackBerry logo appears. Another is to hold the up and down volume buttons until the device shuts down and starts rebooting. Personally, I don't like doing either unless there is nothing else that can be done. I have found simply restarting the device fixes everything, or almost everything.

I don't have an explanation for the problem at the gym. Maybe it is the device somehow, but if a clean* OS reload is not the solution there isn't anything else you can do.

*Clean OS reload is relapsing the OS but without restoring backup or adding apps. The idea is testing before doing these things in order to rule out corrupt data or settings, or problem app.
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:39 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

So the phone works well and does not stop at home. As for the download limit. direct WIFI has none. Yes a normal data plan might limit but you don't have one so there is no carrier controlling your data.

I'm still looking at the GYM WIFI and the possibility it's a browser issue.
You might try downloading a different browser like opera mini or another.

Noticed Crackberry had no ideas also.

Try a browser.
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Old 08-12-2018, 05:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

Thanks to both of you for your time and interest in trying to help solve this issue. I appreciate your ideas. I will try another browser but I'm not sure what that will do with my issues in streaming music. I have FitRadio(blackberry store app) and I don't think a browser plays any part in that.
This is a very specific and very complicated issue. It might be possible to find out what's happening if I had access to the gym's wireless logs but that isn't going to happen. So the end result will likely be that the Blackberry simply won't work at the gym and I couldn't find out why.
Yes I did post at crackberry - I went to the blackberry web site for support - found that this device was bought from a 3rd party and I would have to pay $35US to initiate a service request. Their site had a tab for user forums but when I clicked on that it said it was closed and referred me to crackberry. Theirt site had no ideas but I'm glad that I found this site and appreciate having had the chance to discuss this with the both of you. Again THANKS and all the best!
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:26 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

Ok FitRadio based on their privacy agreement does use the browser on the phone. I saw suggestions that cookies can be blocked on the phone browser to maintain privacy.
Also, although details are limited, the site does suggest songs or workout music is not stored on the users phone. The App may simply be using the phones browser to communicate. Anyway If I find out ore I will post it.

Unfortunately if it is the browser ,the default browser on the phone cannot be changed and getting a different one downloaded wont help because the default browser cannot be changed on the phone.

Back to the search.
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Old 08-13-2018, 09:08 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

Another question occurs to me. As I understand it, the device is connecting to the network. The problem is lack of data throughput. Or maybe there is data throughput, but at too low a rate? Or is it maybe the problem is the app somehow?

To test, and possibly narrow the issue, what else did you try? Can you send and receive BBM messages? Send yourself a PIN message and receive it? Send and receive email? Can you browse any sites?

Trying a different browser may be a good idea, but if the app uses the browser, it likely uses the default device browser and no way to change that.


It does sound like congestion is not the problem, and like the device or the app is having some problem with the network (or the network is having some problem with the device or the app).
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

Thank you for your suggestions and questions.

Tsac, I have tried Fit Radio, Deezer and also later on Spotify with same results. As you say, if it is a browser problem it is not possible to change the default browser. I read in several places about changing to a "hotspot" browser but I could never find the setting to do that - guess it's because the browser can't be changed.

AiHarkness, the phone connects to the network and I receive an IP address. Even when the "internet" fails, I check the settings and see that I am still connected, have an IP address and the signal strength is good. This is using the advanced features of wifi connection setting. I also look at the BB logs and nothing suspicious there either - its hard to do much with the logs because I'm not aware of any way to copy and paste them into a text file.
Now, back when I first had the problem, I went into the wifi diagnostics and ran a simple ping command - just ping google (can't send this post with the www in front of and the com at the end but it was the proper url)- it was not successful and came back as host unreachable(all packets lost). I didn't put much into that(wasn't sure that using a name instead of IP address would work) but when I tried it tonight on my home network, the same ping to google was fine -good response, all packets good. In my basic networking knowledge, being able to ping the site is the true test of your connection.

When the problem occurs, I cannot browse any sites - everything times out and comes back as host not found or something similar. As I said in an earlier email, sitting on the google speed test site and running the test over and over would fail - the "needle" on the dial would simply freeze at some point (10mbs or 12mbs), the start/stop buttons were locked and the needle would not move until I reset the WiFi connection.

I don't have email on the phone - if it ever becomes a useful device, I will probably set up something. As far as BBM Messages or PIM messages, I'm not sure that these functions are available to me on an un-provisioned - no simCard, no provider contract - phone.

Again thank you both for the time and effort you are putting into this problem.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

Quote:
Originally Posted by horhota View Post
Thank you for your suggestions and questions.

Tsac, I have tried Fit Radio, Deezer and also later on Spotify with same results. As you say, if it is a browser problem it is not possible to change the default browser. I read in several places about changing to a "hotspot" browser but I could never find the setting to do that - guess it's because the browser can't be changed.

AiHarkness, the phone connects to the network and I receive an IP address. Even when the "internet" fails, I check the settings and see that I am still connected, have an IP address and the signal strength is good. This is using the advanced features of wifi connection setting. I also look at the BB logs and nothing suspicious there either - its hard to do much with the logs because I'm not aware of any way to copy and paste them into a text file.
Now, back when I first had the problem, I went into the wifi diagnostics and ran a simple ping command - just ping google (can't send this post with the www in front of and the com at the end but it was the proper url)- it was not successful and came back as host unreachable(all packets lost). I didn't put much into that(wasn't sure that using a name instead of IP address would work) but when I tried it tonight on my home network, the same ping to google was fine -good response, all packets good. In my basic networking knowledge, being able to ping the site is the true test of your connection.

When the problem occurs, I cannot browse any sites - everything times out and comes back as host not found or something similar. As I said in an earlier email, sitting on the google speed test site and running the test over and over would fail - the "needle" on the dial would simply freeze at some point (10mbs or 12mbs), the start/stop buttons were locked and the needle would not move until I reset the WiFi connection.

I don't have email on the phone - if it ever becomes a useful device, I will probably set up something. As far as BBM Messages or PIM messages, I'm not sure that these functions are available to me on an un-provisioned - no simCard, no provider contract - phone.

Again thank you both for the time and effort you are putting into this problem.
I believe you can send a PIN message so long as the device is connecting to BlackBerry. Look for the little BlackBerry icon in the network connection area.

I will send you my PIN in a PM.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

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Old 08-14-2018, 07:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

I tried a couple of older BB's I have and so far no issues but I don't have os version 10.3.3.2205, build 903214 on them. Doing a search shows there are some issues with connectivity. The only idea people have had is to do a clean reload of the OS. The OS10.3.3.2137 does have issues and some have performed a autoloader reload of the OS. It worked for some and other no.

Some people being suspicious think Blackberry company has caused the issue to force people to new phones. Highly unlikely but who knows.

It might be worth doing a complete reload or even try to go to the latest OS after aiharkness's suggestion is tried.
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Old 08-15-2018, 06:38 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

Thanks again to you both.
Taking the first step, I was able to send a PIN message tonight from home and aiHarkness received it. Next step will be to try same tomorrow from gym while the problem occurs.
To tsac, I have looked at downloading some older operating systems but it seems that once I am a 10.3.2 I can't go back very far, according to some instructions and comments on the other site. The idea is to fix the device, not cause further problems.
My friend also loaned me another used blackberry yesterday - I think his employer is getting rid of some old phones - so I will see how it works. I've done the setup and it is identical to the first phone. It would be good to narrow the problem to a specific phone or the Classic/OS10.3 in general.
As I said, next step is to try the PIN message from the gym tomorrow when I experience the internet failed problem. Will also try the ping command again.
THANKS again to both of you.
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Old 08-16-2018, 04:31 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

FYSA re the phone your friend gave you, it is possible for it to have a IT policy on it. No big deal, it can be removed.

How to check for an IT Policy on a BlackBerry smartphone

How to remove an IT policy from a BlackBerry smartphone

It wouldn't hurt to check the device you have. If it has an IT Policy, remove it and then test again at the gym.
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Old 08-16-2018, 10:13 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

possible the gym WiFi just wont work with BlackBerry

I had to turn off 20/40 network setting here to make it work

most places it would work but a few would not
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Old 08-16-2018, 05:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

Thanks again for the replies and comments. Thanks also to knottyrope for joining the conversation.

Very quickly to all of you, what is the 20/40 network setting that knottyrope is talking about. Again, I have a Blackberry Classic running BB OS 10.3.3... which is not provisioned(no sim card). I googled 20/40 network settings and found nothing. I did find some articles about 2G/4G but that seems to apply to using mobile networks with a phone that is provisioned.

Back to the ongoing discussion. aiHarkness, there is no IT policy on either phone. I followed the instructions on the links you provided(much appreciated) and found no policies.

At the gym this afternoon, I opened the google speed test website on the original phone and it died before completing even one test. I verified that I was still connected to the network and then tried a PIN message to aiHarkness. At first the message had a series of vertical bars beside it(similar to the wireless symbol). Later I saw the bars had changed to a red circle with a horizontal white bar inside it. I also saw a message below the PIN message saying that it appeared that the network I was connected to had limited internet and advised me to connect to another network. (When I got home, that message was gone, without me deleting it or removing it.) I then I opened the advanced wireless settings and verified my connection. I also ran ping commands to the network gateway(local router)(successful, no lost packets) and then to the google website(unreachable, unsuccessful and all lost). I then tried to ping the DNS server and that was also unsuccessful - all packets lost. Unlike my home network, where my router/gateway acts as my DNS server, the DNS server at the gym is the internet provider DNS. I would have expected to see the same DNS server at home because I have the same internet provider as the gym. In fact, I'm sure I've seen that same DNS IP address somewhere at home, possibly in a traceroute.
Because I was confused by the limited internet message, I got the Samsung tablet out of my locker and tried it - all was good, no issues at all, able to browse and stream music from various sites.
The other Blackberry phone(the loaner) was also disappointing. The first connection ran for nearly 10 minutes before I encountered the internet lost problem. Turning wireless off and then back on got the phone to work for another 5-10 minutes. After that it was just like the original phone - internet would be lost within moments of connecting to the network. This performance was similar to the original phone which worked for nearly an hour the first time I used it but then got increasing worse.
I don't understand why the phones work in the beginning but then decline in subsequent uses/connections. If there was a communications issue, I would expect to see it as clearly at the start as I would in subsequent uses. It's almost like something within the phone is gradually reducing and limiting the internet connection.
I also spoke to the gym manager who told me that "all kinds of phones" are being used. She gets questions about how to connect but never hears of any issues otherwise. She thinks some of the people were using Blackberry phones but has no specific info on that.
One question comes to mind ...is there a setting somewhere in the Blackberry that tells it to go to some Blackberry server, instead of the local DNS server, and that "Blackberry DNS Server" is limiting the internet?
All I can think of now is to try an older version of the Blackberry OS. I've seen posts on various sites that say once you are at 10.3.2 or higher, you cannot go back to an older version. Is there any point in trying this and, if there is, how far back can I go. I'm not sure of how Blackberry designates major revisions - I'd like to back to a version prior to the current major revision
.
Tsac, if there is some desire on the part of Blackberry to force users to get new phones, why not just stop rolling out updates to the OS for the old phones? If people stopped getting updates and new features, it would motivate them to get another phone.

Again, I appreciate the time and effort all of you are putting into this issue.
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Old 08-16-2018, 07:40 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

The DNS address is usually supplied by the internet provider if on a non private network like one in a company. they usually supply al addresses and forward based on their policy in the company.
If your home company supplying internet access to your router is the same company supplying the gym it may be the same number. Example my provider uses 74.50.74.50.
and the same number is what is seen at a local restaurant.

As for the OS changes on upgrade, just look at Google and their changes to Android phones. unless you have newer version like kitkat you cannot log into the google app store. .
I have been trying to find a way to download GM Mobile car app they supply via google but no luck unless you have a new blackberry phone it wont allow login.
The other possibility is Blackberry dumped older phone support


It might be good to see if anyone else in the Gym uses Blackberry and see how they are working.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:06 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic stays connected to network but loses internet access

I was wondering if the data throughput at the gym was just too slow and hence throwing an error, and expected a PIN to work even under those circumstances. The failure of a PIN message indicates to me there is no data throughput at all even though you appear to be connected.

I'm no help on the 20/40 question. My guess is it is something that would be on the router, perhaps frequency/channel, and not anything on the device. Perhaps knotty will respond again.

I think the best conclusion is the gym network has a conflict with the BlackBerry in some way. There is nothing I can think of to try other than what you have already tried. Sadly, the BB10 devices are out of date by a good bit nowadays. I'm seeing things with the browser now that used to work, but the web has moved on and BB10 is stuck in time.
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