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Old 08-02-2010, 12:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Hi,

I need to know how BB push mail works.
I had an argument with a friend on push mail service and I supported BB push mail.

I will put down my understanding and please correct me where ever required.

The BB device is connected to the NOC via carrier.
NOC is hosted by carrier.
NOC is connected to the BB internet server
BB internet server communicates with email servers

The question is, what happens when an email is available in the email server?

The below is my assumption. (Please correct)

NOC is constantly connected to the BB servers.
The BB servers notify the NOC when a new email arrives.
The NOC notifies the BB device about the new email.
The device then connects to the BB server to download email header(2 KB)
On demand the BB device reconnects to the server and download full email message.

I am not sure if the above is correct.

Please provide me the technical details on how BB push mail works and how is it different from IMAP-IDLE(used by many 3rd party email clients).

Please provide some links with this regard.

Thanks,
vinay
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Old 08-03-2010, 11:14 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Vinay, have you tried our SEARCH feature?
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Old 08-03-2010, 11:23 AM   #3 (permalink)
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There are graphics at blackberry.com that illustrate the system. Don't have a link handy, but should be easy to find.

I'm just curious what the disagreement is about that has you so down in the weeds about the the system and how it works.
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Old 08-04-2010, 05:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Yes, I have tried the search feature, but could not come across the exact technical details.
I did come across some graphics, but I am a sort of confused.
I just need some clarification:

The NOC sends the notification to the device,
What is this notificatoin?
Is it the 2 KB email header or just a notification to the BB device that tells the BB device to connect to BB servers to get the email header for display.

After I receive the email header and decide to download full email message,
Will the BB device connect to BB servers to download the full email or does it just connect to NOC to retrive/download the full email.

One more clarification,
Will the BB device ever connect to the BB servers directly?
Will the BB device only interact with the NOC for all email operations?

Thanks,
vinay
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Old 08-08-2010, 05:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I run BIS not BES and the only email that is push through BIS is Yahoo. yahoo is instantaneous. Basically Gmail and Hotmail through the BIS is like any other smartphone - the Blackberry checks mail about every 15 mintues. My other smartphones that have Gmail and Hotmail through the email client beat the Blackberry - but not Yahoo - as I said, that one is push through the BIS.

I read an article today that said NOTHING is encrypted through the BIS...
"Only a portion of BlackBerry communications are really strongly encrypted: those sent through BlackBerry's business-oriented BlackBerry Enterprise (Server), but not those sent through the ordinary BlackBerry Internet Service," wrote Seth Schoen, senior staff technologist for the Electronic Frontier Foundation on that organization’s website.

He added that "all BlackBerry users — and other smart phone users — can optionally use other encryption tools to protect themselves.

"The subtle distinction between BES and BIS is just one reminder that users need to be skeptical about exactly what kind of protection they're getting. It also raises concerns that Blackberry's recent statements that fail to differentiate between the products may be misleading a large number of their customers — we believe Blackberry should immediately clarify this."
The bummer is - the "user" cannot set up the settings themselves in the BIS ensuring encrypted ports are used (which would be the "other encryption tools" they were talking about in the article.) The BIS does this "automatically." On other smartphones "I" have been able to select the ports.

Because I don't have "push" for Gmail or Hotmail... and because I have NO IDEA what ports were selected for any of my mail account through BIS (Hotmail will work on port 110 if you are stupid enough to use that) - I am not feeling very good anymore about my email through the Blackberry BIS...

All of this "info" has recently come to light due to the problems RIM is having in the middle east. It has certainly let me know I am not as secure as I thought - at least not on my Blackberry...

Sandy
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I think you might be confused. All email accounts set up via BIS or BES are "push" in that RIM pushes the email to your device with no interaction from the user. However, they are not instantaneous as you describe. Yahoo supposedly has an arrangement with RIM for near real time push, other ISPs do not.

As for encryption,I think all data via RIM, either BIS or BES is encrypted.
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Most smartphones have the ability go into the email client/settings and set the phone to "retrieve" email when you specify - 5, 10, 15 minutes, etc. I have a smartphone that is set at 10 minutes and will retrieve Gmail and Hotmail much faster than the Blackberry. From testing, the Blackberry will retrieve email roughly every 15 minutes. The user has no way of changing that. So for RIM I guess push means it pushes out the mail for Gmail/Hotmail every 15 mintues.

As for encryption - I thought BIS was encrypted, but after reading different articles regarding RIM's trouble in the middle east - it appears it is not. There are people in tech saying it is not.

I was shocked by this... because really, if RIM is in charge of the push and I can't "up" the time like on other smarthphones - there is no encryption - I have no idea what ports are used through the BIS and am unable to change them - then someone needs to tell me why email through the BIS is better than other smartphones???

Sandy
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Maybe you should use our SEARCH feature. there have been several long threads concerning encryption.

As for RIM's push, here is how it works:

RIM polls the email servers for the accounts that you have set up every 15 minutes. If mail is found, that mail is pushed to the BB and RIM will repoll in 2-3 minutes. If mail is found that is pushed and the repoll will reoccur in 2 to 3 minutes until no mail is found. At that time it will revert to the 15 minute poll cycle.
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Old 08-08-2010, 09:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I posted here because it was about "both."

Why double post my comments or create a new thread.

As for push, I can set up the "pull" faster than RIM can "push" on all other devices (and no I don't lose battery life) except for Yahoo through the BIS (which to me is the only true "push.") Yahoo through the BIS is the best there is - of course that is if the BIS is encrypted.

Sandy
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsberryway View Post
The NOC sends the email notification to the device,
What is this notificatoin?
Is it the 2 KB email header or just a notification to the BB device that tells the BB device to connect to BB servers to get the email header for display.

After I receive the email header and decide to download full email message,
Will the BB device connect to BB servers to download the full email or does it just connect to NOC to retrive/download the full email.

One more clarification,
Will the BB device ever connect to the BB servers directly?
Will the BB device only interact with the NOC for all email operations?
I am still waiting for the clarification for the quoted queries.
Somebody please respond to this.

Thanks,
vinay
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Old 08-09-2010, 09:24 AM   #11 (permalink)
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When the BIS server has mail, it pushes 2K of it to the device. In a lot of cases, that's the entire email.
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Old 08-14-2010, 04:44 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sand View Post
As for push, I can set up the "pull" faster than RIM can "push" on all other devices except for Yahoo through the BIS (which to me is the only true "push.")
Sandy
An email send to one of my email addresses always arrives at my blackberry after about 3 seconds. All of my email addresses are forwarded to my bb email address. From there an email is immediately pushed to the bb.
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eisbaer View Post
An email send to one of my email addresses always arrives at my blackberry after about 3 seconds. All of my email addresses are forwarded to my bb email address. From there an email is immediately pushed to the bb.
This is a great idea!! I am going to test to see how this goes. Forward all accounts to Yahoo (lightening fast through BB) or to my BB address and see how that works. Because I know how fast Yahoo hits the BB but I don't know how fast Yahoo would pull the other accounts (like Gmail) to itself (it's own server.) Or how fast my BB address would pull the other accounts. Like, if something hits Gmail does it get forwarded to Yahoo "right then" or is Yahoo set to pull at specific intervals.

I will check it out...

Totally killer idea!!! So thanks for sharing...

Sandy
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
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But using the carrier supplied email address comes with it own set of issues and is not a recommended option.

1. If the address gets out and harvested, you will get so much SPAM you can't stand it. Totally unfiltered.

2. You cannot take it with you if and when you change carriers. Once you cancel BIS, it is gone for good.

3. The only way to read email to that account is on the BB. When there is a data outage, you have no email in or out of the device, There is no webmail option.
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:27 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Thanks for you input on forwarding other accounts through the carrier's address. If you didn't want to do the carrier's there is still "yahoo" to try though...

Is there any "protection" putting your email accounts through the BIS??? I only recently found out it's not encrypted like the BES.

I don't really get what the BIS even is now... does it go through RIM's servers or is it simply web based mail without the ability to read from the web... now that I found out it's not like the BES I wonder if it completely sucks.

I have never forwarded my mail so I have no idea about it yet. If it is faster in one way (onto the BB) but slower in another (Yahoo pulling it from gmail to themself.) There really may be no way to test that either... I have to check.

But it is a very good option if you are looking for that speed push you get only from Yahoo or the carrier's address...

Sandy
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:53 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I just sent an email from my PC yahoo to my BB gmail. got it within seconds as usual. Not sure if I ever get the delays Sandy speaks of. I can send to 2 different gmail accounts for 2 different BBs and they both come right away.
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Old 08-17-2010, 07:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Any IMAP email server that supports the "IMAP-IDLE" command will result in almost instant delivery of email via BIS. For example, I will get an email within 1 second of receiving it in my inbox.
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Old 08-17-2010, 08:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Then maybe it's the carrier... I am AT&T and Gmail gets pulled in every 15 minutes. Only Yahoo is fast...

But as we speak... I am holding with RIM - I called them and paid 50 bucks to find out more about email through the BIS.

So far... I am not pleased... Will post my findings...

Sandy

Correction: It's not the carrier... Gmail pulls faster now... they have the same "deal" they have with Yahoo with Gmail now. I hadn't tried Gmail "lately"...

Last edited by The Sand : 08-17-2010 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:57 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sand View Post
Then maybe it's the carrier... I am AT&T and Gmail gets pulled in every 15 minutes. Only Yahoo is fast...

But as we speak... I am holding with RIM - I called them and paid 50 bucks to find out more about email through the BIS.

So far... I am not pleased... Will post my findings...

Sandy

Correction: It's not the carrier... Gmail pulls faster now... they have the same "deal" they have with Yahoo with Gmail now. I hadn't tried Gmail "lately"...
GMail has been instant for years. I'm not sure what your "lately" means. As long as you didn't use gmail's instructions for manually setting up an imap account using the imap.gmail.com server name on your BB. If you do that then gmail has a 15 minute delay. if you set up normally and just following the prompts on the BIS setup page then it works properly.
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Old 08-17-2010, 11:23 PM   #20 (permalink)
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For me "lately" was about a month ago... it was not working fast like Yahoo, I don't know why - it was working like Hotmail, coming in about every 15 minutes - and the "delete" wasn't syncing.

If you use the BIS for ATT, accessing from the internet - you can't set up your own ports making sure SSL is enabled. You put in the info (email address and password) and it's done "automatically." Only recently after reading articles about the trouble in the Middle East did I find out the BIS doesn't offer the same protection as the BES. Thus I paid 50 bucks today to find out what's going on "behind" the BIS wall... what specifically are the ports and are they SSL enabled???

They are going to get back to me on one thing... When I have it all - I will post. It deserves it's own thread...

I was stunned by what I found out so far - and mad -I feel dupped... Like I trusted them and the betrayed me.

Also, that they "charged" me to find this out is appalling. Apple, HTC's and Nokia - all have the ability to find out this information right there on the internet...

But at least I found out... and I have already deleted one account from the BIS.

Sandy
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