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Old 09-14-2004, 12:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Help! I'm being screwed by T-Mobile!

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Hi,

I'm a new BB user, so please be patient with me.

I recently upgraded two of the 5 cell phones on my T-Mobile family plan to Blackberry 6710's. My wife and I were tired of carrying both a cell phone and our motorola 2-way email pager, so we switched to a blackberry without a mobile data service. I'm happy with the integration of the two.

But I would like to also use the WAP browser, and get access to T-zones just for news weather etc. T-mobile customer service tells me repeatedly that the blackberry is "not a WAP enabled device" unless I get the full data plan. From what I've read on various sites including this one, that isn't true. Is it?

But there is no browser on my blackberry, and the desktop software prevents me from downloading any 3rd party applications. Doesn't seem fair to me that T-Mobile takes away a standard blackberry feature just to market the full MDS. If I activate MDS for 2 blackberries ($58 per month) and add this onto the family cellular play ($79 per month), that adds up to
over $1600 per year. That's a car payment, people!

And its for a lot of features that I don't want or need (email anywhere, web browsing anywhere, etc -- nice features but not what I need nor can afford).

So T-mobile has closed the door on the WAP feature of the blackberry because, based on what I've read on some other sites, that there is a vulnerability of MDS features through the WAP interface. It seems that they have removed the application and prevented any others from being installed.

I can enjoy the nice screen and keypoard of the blackberry for SMS, but I'd also like to use the WAP features. Can anybody help?
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Old 09-14-2004, 12:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You need the data package to access anything on the web using the WAP browser.
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Old 09-14-2004, 12:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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When you order the blackberry data plan, you get tzones which is your wap browser. I didn't think you could even get email if you don't sign up for a BB data plan - why get a BB without this?

You could try logging in to your account online, and just adding tzones which is about $4/month I think. Wait a day and see if it works. If not, then you will need a BB data plan as far as I know.
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Old 09-14-2004, 12:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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You don't HAVE to go with a blackberry plan actually. Keep your voice plan, if you have the T-zones, all you need is:

1) T-zones settings, the APN, IP settings and other server settings
2) WebViewer

It is true you will NOT have email access unless you use another piece of software such as EmailViewer, but it will NOT be push email, you wil have to open EV and select to retrieve messages. Which turns it into a smartphone of sorts, defeating the blackberry purpose.

You won't have the WAP browser as you don't have service books, sinse you aren't registered on the blackberry network via TMo.

Both programs I talked of are available for a cost from ReqWireless, there is a trial period, allowing you 10 pages or 10 checking of emails in a 24 hour period.

Hope that answered some questions.
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Old 09-14-2004, 12:57 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Hi again, and thanks for your replies.

Just to clarify, I'm using SMS without a data service, and that's not really email but functions well. The problem with SMS is that most cell phone keypads and screens are a pain to use. SMS on the blackberry is very nice, and replaces my old 2-way pagers. Anyone can email you to your SMS address witha short message. They have an unlimited SMS service for $9.95 a month.

I recently went to the T-Mobile website and added T-zones for $4.95 a month. A reasonable fee for news, weather, and so on. This adds up to half of the MDS fee, would be available on any other cell phone on T-Mobile, and is available on a blackberry from anybody else except T-mobile because they remove the standard blackberry WAP browser unless you subscribe to the service.

I'm not trying to get anyting for free, I just want access to the features that I'm already paying for. And I don't like the marketing concept that you can't get what you want unless you buy a "package" that includes stuff you don't want for a price higher.

You know, you cant get the "gage package" on your new car unless you get the "package" that includes 2-tone paint, '"upgraded" wheels, etc. Some people call this marketing.

Maybe I'm wrong, so please tell me, but I thought you could use WAP on the blackberry independantly of the full MDS. If I'm paying for T-zones, I'd like to get a WAP browser to get access to it, but there is no browser on my blackberry at all, and I can't install a 3'rd party browser.

Is this how is was with you all? No browser on the device until you sign op for MDS?
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Old 09-14-2004, 01:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm kind of confused. T-zones is the TMO browser. TMO doesn't even offer MDS last I heard (could be wrong). You "should" be able to access tzones.

Maybe the sites you're trying to go to rest outside of tzones?
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Old 09-14-2004, 01:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceb

Maybe I'm wrong, so please tell me, but I thought you could use WAP on the blackberry independantly of the full MDS. If I'm paying for T-zones, I'd like to get a WAP browser to get access to it, but there is no browser on my blackberry at all, and I can't install a 3'rd party browser.

Is this how is was with you all? No browser on the device until you sign op for MDS?
MDS has nothing to do with Tmobile or tzones. MDS is part of BES which is what you would use if you were using the BB in a corporate environment (or offered by a third party). MDS is useful for things like IM.

So you're saying you're paying for Tzones, but no browser on the BB? (it should look like a littel red "t")

Try installing a third party web browswer and see if you can view wap sites.
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Old 09-14-2004, 02:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks Goth,

You know that's how all this got started with me. I wanted to try the ReqWireless webviewer, so I downloaded the trial version, followed the instructions for "performing a clean uninstall" of the BB desktop software, installing the version which allows 3rd party software, and still couldn't get the ReqWireless application to be recognized for download by the BB desktop.

I've seen threads for other cool things to do with the blackberry without MDS but I have no browser at all, of any kind. I'm stuck.

I've called the T-Mobile service group 3 times, and they will not help me unless I subscribe to the "unlimited blackberry service."


BFrye, Thank you! I SHOULD be able to access T-zones but I can't. I need an application (WAP browser I think) to get my T-zones, but T-Mobile refuses to provide them to me unless I sign up for a data service, even though I am paying the $4.95 per month, and my old cell phone has the capability.

It is confusing, not because we don't understand what a blackberry is (OK Im open to being confused about that too since I'm a newbie) but it is confusing because marketing people change the basic blackberry features in their best effort to "market" you into a more expensive plan.

Eventually you just give up and say "give me the works" because its "too hard to figure out how to do what I really want to do."

My probelm is that T-Mobile REMOVED the WAP browser from my blackberry 6710 and are trying to tell me that my blackberry "is not a WAP-enabled device." Of course it is.

Should I return it and go get a blackberry from somebody else? It would have been cheaper anyway because T-Mobile charged me 50% more per unit because I'm not a new customer! Really, their website says $99 per blackberry, but to upgrade from my old phone and move the SIM over, it was $139 per blackberry for me.

Then I see an add on Ebay from TMobile Business division, who will give you a free BB6710 if you sign up for MDS for 1 year.

OK I'll stop whining (pretty soon).
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Old 09-14-2004, 02:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks Mo-bile,

No I have no "little red T."

I signed up for T-zones on the website, and the next day it was enabled (at least on my bill). I went to the TMO website again and set it up, but I cannot actually access them from my BB.

I thought T-Mobile might send me the "service book" for either a WAP browser or "the red T" but its like the new commercial: "No!"

Has anyone else with a new BB from T-Mobile have the problem where 3rd party applications are prevented (even if you follow the instructions from ReqWireless)?
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Old 09-14-2004, 02:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Perhaps I can clarify for you... I work for T-Mobile, and am quite adept at their services. In order for the Blackberry to be marketable, T-Mobile had to get the Blackberry Web Client, so non-corporate customers could get e-mail on their BB. We offer a Blackberry Data plan that is SPECIFIC to the Blackberry, at a diffent cost, and with a different IP (wap.voicestream.com is our WAP IP/APN Gateway). The wap browser only shows up on your Blackberry once your Blackberry recieves the T-Zones(BrowserConfig) service book (Under Options/Service Book). Without that you'll need to download purchase and install the WAP version of Reqwireless (www.reqwireless.com) WebViewer, and fill the in the APN and t-Zones settings (this is what Gothic suggested). WebViewer runs 30 bucks. The other option is to purchase Blackberry service from T-Mobile, beacause that specific IP it connects to once the service is enabled it sends the aforementioned service book to the Blackberry. I'm sorry you feel your getting "screwed" by us, but we are pretty upfront about Blackberrys fucntioning better with Blackberry Service purchased. I suppose you talked to an apathetic rep.

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Old 09-14-2004, 03:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yay for T-mobile! Too bad your a direct dealer and I'm an indirect ;) But we get the job done regardless! lol.

to be honest, with the sidekick being phased out, a LOT of people are turning to the Blackberry, activating it on a voice plan, getting the 4.99 T-Zones and the 9.99 Text messaging (which is unlimited until the 30th of January as an FYI for you people with no txt plan). It works quite well with Webviewer for wap pages, and MailViewer for email functions, which acts just as a pop3 client more or less. However, with that cost, plus the voice plan, you're better off getting the blackberry plan, however to each their own

Have you tried to download the sp2 for the blackberry desktop? It fixes that issue of third party programs. I had to do the same before I swapped to the BB plan.
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Old 09-14-2004, 03:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Blackberries indeed work much, much, much better with a data plan -- but I can understand that even a Blackberry without a Blackberry plan (i.e. SMS only) works better than carrying two separate devices: A cellphone and a 2-way pager. There are advantages to a Blackberry without a Blackberry plan over the older cellphones;

The Blackberry WAP browser may not be able to be used without a Blackberry plan unfortunately (To the best of my knowledge). It is possible there was an error that allowed you access to the browser. It's too well-integrated into the Blackberry infrastructure and very few people get a Blackberry without a Blackberry plan.

You need to install a generic 3rd party browser: reqwireless. You will need to install reqwireless and configure the reqwireless-recommended WAP settings, and you should be able to do some basic browsing. The cost will be $30 to purchase reqwireless, but you can download the free trial and try it out;

Blackberry has some extra infrastructure on the cellphone network, compared to regular cellphones, and costs more to run, so having a Blackberry is more expensive.

Also, unless you specifically saw the three letters MDS, T-Mobile was not marketing MDS, but a Blackberry plan. The Blackberry plan *and* MDS are two completely different things. MDS is not necessary for email or WAP browsing per se. Also, MDS is available for only $10 per month from http://www.myblackberry.us .... but you must already have at least a basic "Blackberry plan" to use it;

To the best of my knowledge, you can get unlimited email and web browsing with some Blackberry carriers for something like about $40-$50 per month, so it should not cost you $1300 per year for unlimited email and unlimited WAP browsing. (I am assuming you are in USA). If you want MDS extensions to the Blackberry plan, to do additional things like instant messaging, you can get MDS from a third party for much cheaper. (remember, a Blackberry plan is different from MDS.)

However, the treatment you got was probably a little bit strange, especially if you have 5 cellphones (Or 7 if including the two-way pagers) --- they should be treating you better and giving you the discount!

Let me emphasize there are three main levels of Blackberry usability:

Basic phone plan -- cellphone, SMS, and standard WAP only (reqwireless)
Blackberry plan -- Adds email and Blackberry-enabled WAP (HTML too with some carriers)
Blackberry plan+MDS plan -- Adds everything else, third party Internet apps including chat software; etc

Usually, it's most economical to get MDS separately from your carrier, as MDS service can be purchased from a third party (just like you can purchase email service from a party different from your ISP).
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Old 09-14-2004, 03:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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CONGRATULATIONS MARK! 300 posts everyone! Way to go - and thanks for all the help!!! Cheers!
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Old 09-15-2004, 01:46 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Adam,

Thanks for your response. I thought the umlimited blackberry plan, by allowing unlimited email including corperate email, and unlimited web browsing, was a lot more than WAP, and looked like MDS to me.

So if I understand correctly, the TMo blackberry plan allows unlimited WAP, and that is its intention. So it is not possible to allow me WAP access to My T-Zones without enabling WAP for everything including unlimited email, corporate email, web browsing, etc.

Is this true? I cannot get a "service book" for T-zones without getting full access to all WAP possibilities? There arent separate service books for the other features like full browsing and corporate email? To be specific, I was accusing TMO of packaging them together such that a customer could not buy specific products without being forced into a more expensive package that includes more features than desired. I think you are saying that based on the technology (not marketing), they cannot be separated (if we sell you T-zones, we are giving you the rest for free because we have no way of tracking actual use?). You know, you buy a car and the dealer tells you that if you want an a $200 tachometer, then you must also get $600 tinted glass and $900 two-tone paint, that you can get in a "package" for only $500 total. Lucky me.

To a layman customer like me, all I wanted from TMO was the features advertised in the checkboxes on the blackberry comparison charts, and if you look on your website at plans available to a blackberry customer from my point of view, several pages explicitly state at I can use T-zones on my blackberry, and nothing says only if I subscribe to the unlimited plan. The unlimited plan looks like a great service for a customer who wants its all and is insensitive to the price, like a corporate client.

By the way, the TMO service reps were very polite and helpful (not apathetic), but they just didnt understand the differences either. They would put me on hold, call someone else, then answer my question. I couldn't talk directly to the people who do know. Do I have access to blackberry specalists at TMO? I tried the email to the service group, but got no response.

Thanks again for your response, my applogies if my title was unjustly offensive to TMO. But maybe it's not unjust if its technically possible to get a service book for T-zones only (without the other services) and TMO is unwilling to do this for me. I have the impression (without the necessary experience) that there are multiple service books.


Goth and Mark, thanks again for your response. I will try again with the 3rd party software and see if I can figure out why my desktop software prohibits 3rd party software (I believe I have already followed the instructions for a "clean uninstall" and then reinstall the correct version of the desktop software to allow installation for 3rd party software, but I'll double check everything and see. At least I'd like to play with the service and see what its like. Maybe I'll get the data service anyway and see what its like.

Mark, Thanks for explaining the 3 levels. T-mobile renames everything, and it is difficult for me to match the T-mobile names with the blackberry names. In fact it still is. By the way, my monthly cell bill not including overages is:

Family plan 2 phones, $49
Family play, 3 extra phones added, $30
2 blackberries with unlimited SMS $10 each or $20
T-zones, one phone only, $4.99

Total: $105 per month or $1260 per year.

If I change this to replace the SMS and t-zone services with blackberry unlimited on two devices, thats -$25 + $60 per month, for a total of $140 per month or $1680 per year. It's enough money that it's worth shopping for services I really need instead of just making a quick and dirty buy.

I have a child with diabetes, so we need to be connected, and a teenage daughter who must have her own phone if I wish to use one myself on the weekends (!) and a 3rd child just because the other two have a phone, and my wife has the other blackberry. I like the privacy of SMS to say "this meeting is a waste of time, the idiot is unprepared again, whats for dinner?" and other man-about-the-world coordination like "am I meeting you at the band concert after the parent teacher conferences, or after football practice?" LOL

Lastly, to otto, I do understand supply and demand. TM wants be to pay for as mush services as I am willing to pay, regardless of what I need (marketing!) or for bandwidth that I actually use. But for phone upgrades, even if its the old model with the new coming out and they are about to get stuck with the old ones on the shelf? BTW I laugh at the same commercial? LOL
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Old 09-17-2004, 05:06 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The Blackberry service is designed to recoup the costs of purchasing and maintaining the web clients and the multiple servers that they run off. That's why it runs more than our standard T-Mobile Unlimited Internet. To get the T-Zones Service Book, I believe it gets it from the BB Web Client, and the only way to connect is through the Blackberry service. I hope this gets worked out for you. You might want to consider another device like a Treo, or the new iPaq, if you want to be able to browse via T-Zones without buy the full internet package.
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Old 09-24-2004, 04:31 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I did it without the BB add-on service. The process should not be attempted without some technical profficeincy. Take a look:

BROWSERBOSS Thread
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