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Old 11-11-2005, 09:58 AM   #41 (permalink)
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well i can tell you i see alot of people on the trains and in the entertainment industry,music,movies,etc and alot are on servers and alot arnt...good would be best served to offer both otherwise they are losing a chunk of small biz and people who just want to be connected
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Old 11-11-2005, 10:04 AM   #42 (permalink)
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good_guy - I had some long talks with Good about converting from BES when RIM started up their extortion racket better known as 'T-Support' but with users spread throughout 60-70 countries we just couldn't justify the capital outlay.

As an aside, I'm doing everything in my power to ban all Palm devices from our company and I know I have 100% of our IT support folks behind me.
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Old 11-11-2005, 11:09 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkF
good_guy - I had some long talks with Good about converting from BES when RIM started up their extortion racket better known as 'T-Support' but with users spread throughout 60-70 countries we just couldn't justify the capital outlay.

As an aside, I'm doing everything in my power to ban all Palm devices from our company and I know I have 100% of our IT support folks behind me.
From a capital outlay perspective, what do you mean? The cost of the software or the cost of the devices?

What is your reasoning for wanting to ban all Palm devices?
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Old 11-11-2005, 11:22 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Interesting note regarding the NTP case:

"2005-11-11 07:18 ET - In the News

The Financial Post reports in its Friday edition that the U.S. government waded into the high-stakes legal battle between Research in Motion and patent collector NTP Inc. Thursday, saying a possible U.S. ban of the popular BlackBerry wireless e-mail device could put essential government services in jeopardy. The Post's Kevin Restivo quotes the U.S. Department of Justice stated in a court filing, "The injunction would literally prevent RIM from providing the services that would be essential for the federal government, as well as state and local governments, to continue their use of the BlackBerry devices." The government department wants 90 days notice before a U.S. trial court enforces the potentially crippling injunction on BlackBerry devices in the United States to ensure public workers can keep using the devices. Lance Johnson, a Washington intellectual property lawyer, said the filing is good news for RIM. "This really throws a wrench into things [for NTP]," Mr. Johnson said. "It brings to this [legal] forum a national-security and government-functioning imperative that was not there before." NTP has said the injunction will not affect U.S. government and emergency workers"
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Old 11-11-2005, 11:53 AM   #45 (permalink)
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the good old government might save us all
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Old 11-11-2005, 12:14 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_Guy
Interesting note regarding the NTP case:

"2005-11-11 07:18 ET - In the News

The Financial Post reports in its Friday edition that the U.S. government waded into the high-stakes legal battle between Research in Motion and patent collector NTP Inc. Thursday, saying a possible U.S. ban of the popular BlackBerry wireless e-mail device could put essential government services in jeopardy. The Post's Kevin Restivo quotes the U.S. Department of Justice stated in a court filing, "The injunction would literally prevent RIM from providing the services that would be essential for the federal government, as well as state and local governments, to continue their use of the BlackBerry devices." The government department wants 90 days notice before a U.S. trial court enforces the potentially crippling injunction on BlackBerry devices in the United States to ensure public workers can keep using the devices. Lance Johnson, a Washington intellectual property lawyer, said the filing is good news for RIM. "This really throws a wrench into things [for NTP]," Mr. Johnson said. "It brings to this [legal] forum a national-security and government-functioning imperative that was not there before." NTP has said the injunction will not affect U.S. government and emergency workers"

11/11 12:19P (DJ) =DJ U.S. Government Seeks To Ensure BlackBerry Continuity
Story 4381 (RIM.T, RIMM, CA7609751028, I/CMT, I/TEL, I/XDJGI, I/XISL...)
By Mark Heinzl
OF THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
TORONTO (Dow Jones)--The U.S. government is seeking to ensure that
BlackBerry emails continue to run among its staff if a Virginia court issues
an injunction on BlackBerry sales and service in the U.S.
The U.S. government filed a "statement of interest" in U.S. District Court
in Virginia, which is overseeing a patent-infringement battle between
BlackBerry maker Research In Motion Ltd. (RIMM), or RIM, and Virginia patent
firm NTP Inc. The court plans to examine whether it should enforce a failed
$450 million settlement between RIM and NTP. If the failed settlement isn't
enforced, NTP plans to ask the court to reissue a previously stayed injunction
on U.S. BlackBerry sales and service.
NTP has said any injunction wouldn't apply to U.S. federal, state and local
governments. But the U.S. government said in its filing that is easier said
than done.
"The U.S. government is a major user of BlackBerry devices and technology to
allow its employees to access email, and to send messages, when they are away
from their offices," the filing said. If there is an injunction "it is
imperative that some mechanism be incorporated that permits continuity of the
federal government's use of BlackBerry devices," it said.
"There appear to be significant issues with the manner in which any
injunction is phrased and implemented," the filing said. "There does not
appear to be a simple manner in which RIM can identify which users of
BlackBerries are part of the federal government, so that email directed to
them can be relayed through the BlackBerry system," it said.
One possibility, the government said, would be to create a database with a
"whitelist" of devices used by the federal government and others exempted from
an injunction, though this would raise "some substantial challenges that
cannot be instantly surmounted."
The government also said that, given the complexity and expense involved in
creating a whitelist, the court should stay any injunction for at least 90
days. During that time, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office may issue a final
decision in its reexamination of NTP's patents, the government noted.
The PTO has issued preliminary rejections of NTP's patents at issue, and
RIM, based in Waterloo, Ont., has been hoping the PTO will conclude the
reexamination in its favor in time to affect the District Court case. Judge
James Spencer, however, said this week it is "highly unlikely" he will stay
the proceedings to allow the PTO to finish its reexamination. NTP has said it
would appeal any adverse rulings by the PTO.
"There may also be a substantial public interest that would be impaired by
enjoining commercial use of BlackBerry devices," the government filing said.
"The government needs additional time, however, to assess such further public
interest."
Company Web Site: http://www.rim.net

-Mark Heinzl, The Wall Street Journal; 416-306-2014, [email address]

(END) Dow Jones Newswires
11-11-05 1219ET
Copyright (c) 2005 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.

M/TEC, P/EWR, R/CN, R/NME, R/ONT)
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Old 11-11-2005, 12:26 PM   #47 (permalink)
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You know, the whole whitelist thing makes sense, but the fact of the matter is this injunction was ordered almost 2 years ago and has been on a stay ever since. Another example of the government living with their heads in the sand.

I personally don't think there will be an injunction as RIMM can't afford it in the short or long term. They will settle with RIMM stroking a check for about $1B and paying royalties until their "work around" is in place.
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Old 11-11-2005, 12:44 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_Guy

I personally don't think there will be an injunction as RIMM can't afford it in the short or long term. They will settle with RIMM stroking a check for about $1B and paying royalties until their "work around" is in place.
I agree with you but they'll be no need for a "work around" if both parties settle.
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Old 11-11-2005, 02:02 PM   #49 (permalink)
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What I meant by the workaround is that there will probably be ongoing royalties on top of a lump settlement. Once RIMM gets the workaround in place, the royalties would stop.
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Old 11-11-2005, 02:07 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Will Good still be paying royalties to RIM?
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Old 11-11-2005, 02:15 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBlackBerry
Will Good still be paying royalties to RIM?
It is my understanding the the royalties we paid/pay are only on the non-2.5G devices (G100 and 900/957). That portion of our user base has diminished very rapidly over the last year.
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Old 11-11-2005, 03:59 PM   #52 (permalink)
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good_guy - Capital outlay for having a duplicate email forwarding system (Good) in place while migrating users from the BES. That's extra $ for handhelds, servers, and software licenses. Also, trying to track down and coordinate the actual device swap with 3000 mobile users would be a nightmare anyway you slice it.

As far as Palm goes, let's see... if you have a Treo 600 you're using PocketMirror but if you're using a Treo 650 it's Palm Outlook conduits. What the heck is that? The fewer devices an IT dept has to support, the better support they can offer.

thanks
Mark
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Old 11-11-2005, 05:12 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Makes sense, though we have had several folks do forklift upgrades. With an installation that large, I completely understand the hesitation.


In regards to the Treos, GoodLink rectifies that problem. Single interface for both devices. Plus, no desktop install, true OTA provisioning, upgrades, and 3rd party application push.

Stepping down from my shill box.
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Old 11-12-2005, 02:29 AM   #54 (permalink)
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I got a couple of comments

1) Ace seems to personify the employees of Good that I have dealt with. Very unfriendly, shady, incompetent. No offense to good_guy as he seems completely different from the several Good employees I have met or dealt with.

2)Treo's are garbage. Either way you look at it, it is a hit or miss situation. The issues are not consistent or uniform so I cannot recreate and find a solution. Palm has no solutions, hard reset then if that doesnt work, replace it. I would say 80% of my clients that have 650's are on their 3rd and 4th device. It is to the point now that I discourage any clients from purchasing treos and if they do purchase it I outline the level of support they can accept. For onsite treo support they will wait at least 2 weeks and I will stay for a max of 3 hrs (unless I am invoicing them) and there is no guarantee that i will fix the issue. So when you speak about Goodlink or BB Connect, the bottom line is you can put a new paint job on a 40 year old piece of shit Ford but no matter how you look at it, its still a piece of shit Ford underneath.

3) I heard the 8700 is actually using a different technology than the patent they infringed on?

4) If they do stop sales of bb's in the states people can buy them in Canada and just roam in the states.. it would be significantly more expensive but would work.
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Old 11-13-2005, 10:10 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschrage
w

Corey - where can I read about "how this stuff really works?"

Thanks
The documents presented to the court by RIMM:

http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bb...715&mid=362772

http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bb...715&mid=362773

http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bb...715&mid=362774

http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bb...715&mid=362775

http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bb...715&mid=362776

http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bb...715&mid=362777
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Old 11-14-2005, 06:08 AM   #56 (permalink)
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I think the solution is realy quite simple.

If RIM is forced to shut down service in the US, they simply need to shut down ALL SERVICE.

It would only take about 10 minutes for the federal government to realize what has happened, and that judge would be removed from the bench.

Let's face it, the ONLY reason the judge is willing to shut RIM down is because he thinks he has protected the government from kaos.

It is amazing that our political leaders believe they can be exempt from laws (or at least the effects of them.)
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Old 11-14-2005, 06:09 AM   #57 (permalink)
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I'd be REAL cautious accepting posts on a message board as a valid, verified facts. Now if this guy presented links from source (the courts, if they exist)
that would be entirely different.

I apply that caveat to ALL message boards, including this one.
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Old 11-14-2005, 03:57 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Out of curosity - If RIM is required to shut down service, would they just shut down BES and BWC access at their data center, or would it be required to be shut off at the carrier level?

I also heard a rumor that the 8700 devices bypassed the patent issues, and noticed the rumor was alluded to here. Is there any truth to it?

BigJohn
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Old 11-16-2005, 01:16 AM   #59 (permalink)
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I work in the IT branch of one of the big 2 cell phone companies. I have used and deployed Blackberry 900 series, 7280, 7290 with both Goodlink and BES. I am also currently using and deploying Good on Windows Mobile OS devices. While Good is adequate on the Palm OS it is nothing short of a disaster on the Windows device. And I will admit that windows mobile OS is every bit as buggy as its desktop counterparts, but months of testing with Good proves it to be nothing more than a not-ready-for-prime-time beta software. I bring this up only to say that I have totally lost confidence in Good's ability to produce efficient and effective software and to service the needs of their clients. This fact is documented all over the internet, mostly in the forums like this where power users are doing the critique (i.e. http://www.pdaphonehome.com/forums/s...hreadid=54027). Good absolutely refuses to address serious issues with their software that renders other applications on the deployed device useless or seriously impotent. Its bloated installs and buggy code causes lockups on every device on the market running windows OS. None of the other 40+ 3rd party apps that I have loaded on my device cause one-tenth of the issues of the Good install. We have all but abandoned it in our 10,000+ person IT department. In all my years of software deployment I have never seen a software deployed with such an obvious lack of real-world testing. Though I am not thrilled with BES lack of features, I wouldn't put my money on Good if my life depended on it.
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Old 11-16-2005, 04:41 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Thanks for the red flag cdubya
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