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Old 07-05-2011, 10:55 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

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A BlackBerry developer speaks out "Why I develop for BlackBerry: BlackBerry Dev Speaks Out in “Letter from Outer Space” - BerryReview
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Old 07-05-2011, 02:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Exclamation Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

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A BlackBerry developer speaks out "Why I develop for BlackBerry: BlackBerry Dev Speaks Out in “Letter from Outer Space” - BerryReview
Thanks for that link, very interesting article. But I do wish he'd had someone proofread and edit the grammar in his article before posting it, the grammar's off in many places. In the business world, poor grammar really damages your credibility.

But then again, we live in a day and age when the Nook Book edition of a book can ship to customers with DOZENS of typos that even Spell Checker would have caught, so obviously the old standards are being thrown out the window left & right.
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Old 07-05-2011, 02:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

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Thanks for that link, very interesting article. But I do wish he'd had someone proofread and edit the grammar in his article before posting it, the grammar's off in many places. In the business world, poor grammar really damages your credibility.

But then again, we live in a day and age when the Nook Book edition of a book can ship to customers with DOZENS of typos that even Spell Checker would have caught, so obviously the old standards are being thrown out the window left & right.
Jack, did you ever think that English is not this guy's native language and that he probably spent quite a while just typing the thing out? Maybe he doesn't have an English spelling and grammar checker, maybe if he even did have them he wouldn't necessarily know which corrections to actually make, nor did he have someone more proficient to help him proof it.

He's an independent developer who just wanted to get a story and an opinion out. He's not a writer, his first language is not English.

He isn't technically a business man so I'm not too sure where you're going with your comments to his poor grammar and spelling. I read it, I got what he was saying and I applaud him for writing such an in-depth article when nobody asked him to.

Hell.. my spell checker in FireFox tells me to capitalize English, I didn't think languages needed capitalization but the spell checker thinks I'm talking about the actual people.

I just don't get what your criticism is about, "it's a great article but any possible credibility it had is now out the window because of grammar and spelling"?
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Old 07-05-2011, 02:57 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Jack, did you ever think that English is not this guy's native language and that he probably spent quite a while just typing the thing out? Maybe he doesn't have an English spelling and grammar checker, maybe if he even did have them he wouldn't necessarily know which corrections to actually make, nor did he have someone more proficient to help him proof it.

He's an independent developer who just wanted to get a story and an opinion out. He's not a writer, his first language is not English.

He isn't technically a business man so I'm not too sure where you're going with your comments to his poor grammar and spelling. I read it, I got what he was saying and I applaud him for writing such an in-depth article when nobody asked him to.

Hell.. my spell checker in FireFox tells me to capitalize English, I didn't think languages needed capitalization but the spell checker thinks I'm talking about the actual people.

I just don't get what your criticism is about, "it's a great article but any possible credibility it had is now out the window because of grammar and spelling"?
It's just one of my biggest pet peeves that the English-speaking world's standards in regards to spelling and grammar are being rapidly eroded by the internet age.

Oh and he's a Software Developer whose job is developing software to meet a client's needs. Clients hire him to develop the software they need. That's the very definition of a business man. He's in BUSINESS to serve his clients' needs. So I disagree with your assessment that he "isn't technically a business man." He also stated that he's been in the business for 30 years. He's a "lifer", been doing this awhile.
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:27 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

It may be a pet peeve, but I don't think the International businessperson who may not know all the nuances of a language like English is the one ruining (butchering?) the language.

Reading through his blog I think he did a pretty good job of communicating using English. I understood it. And he does include this disclaimer:
"Hint: English isn't my native language, so excuse me if anything is wrong written or misspelled. Feel free to ask if you don't understand anything"

Now the 15 year-olds using text-speak as English.....Them I am worried about. Also the recent college graduates who don't understand there is a difference between "their" and "there"....Them I am very worried about.
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:58 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Exclamation Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

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It may be a pet peeve, but I don't think the International businessperson who may not know all the nuances of a language like English is the one ruining (butchering?) the language.

Reading through his blog I think he did a pretty good job of communicating using English. I understood it. And he does include this disclaimer:
"Hint: English isn't my native language, so excuse me if anything is wrong written or misspelled. Feel free to ask if you don't understand anything"
You know what? I missed seeing that disclaimer. I was skimming through the article and somehow missed it. So that's my bad.
Quote:
Now the 15 year-olds using text-speak as English.....Them I am worried about. Also the recent college graduates who don't understand there is a difference between "their" and "there"....Them I am very worried about.
Ohhhh yeah. They make me weep for the future of the human race.
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:57 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

Yeah, I understood his native language is German.

But I can already anticipate the responses to the article: First, nothing the guy says matters because the marketplace is rejecting BlackBerry OS in favor of Android, first, and iOS, second, and soon windows mobile OS. And even if you don't believe that, well, BlackBerry is no longer unique as Android and iOS are nearly there on the things that used to set BlackBerry apart. And if you don't believe that, well, those things that are supposedly important aren't, not really, because users don't care. And if you argue that, well ... well, I'll come up with something. And, oh yeah, there's 10s and 10s and 10s of thousands more apps for Android, and almost that many for iOS, and nothing for BlackBerry, and those are junk. ...

I don't know, old men designing solutions for old men is working for me. Long live old men.
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:06 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

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Long live old men.
The problem is that this is not naturally possible. Old men die. Or get dementia. Might want to come up with a better slogan.
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Old 07-05-2011, 05:33 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

True, but they get replaced. However, more to the point, my meaning is that different people have different priorities, and it is like RIM is designing for me. Last thing I want is for RIM to start designing for someone else. So, long live a company of old men designing for old men.*

*Someone, maybe it was that open letter at BGR, stated something along the lines of RIM being a bunch of old men sitting around specifying devices according to their ideas and not to what the marketplace wants. I believe the example was choosing what colors to make devices.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:54 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

Actually, I understood what you meant, I was just giving you grief.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:20 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

OK, after all of this, shouldn't RIM board just sack the CEOs for being so lazy? Seriously, even that 2 yo kid from the Apple fanboy video would have seem this market change without innovations. Also, its being over a year that RIM acquired QNX yet haven't developed it's platform to a smartphone!!! What a heck?! I blame bad (if not stupid) management, lack of comms and creativity!
Some heads should be rolling already and they are not the ones of the small workman who is sat on his desk doing what he is told by his blind managers!
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:58 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

They aren't lazy. And they aren't stupid. Maybe they lack the necessary imagination, but they no doubt work hard and they're intelligent.

I have mixed feelings. The one thing I'm almost sure of is that RIM's concept of the purpose of their device is entirely different than the way their competion views their own products. And I doubt RIM can produce a BlackBerry that appeals to the masses and still works for those who chose BlackBerry in the first place and have stayed with it because of what it does for them. I just don't know if it is even possible. Maybe it is. I don't know anything.

A long time ago, in the days just before and just after the 8100 was released, when the forum was being flooded with new members who were buying new BlackBerrys and some just any BlackBerry they could find, and so many of them were disappointed. Some of the complaints were just stupid, as in expecting laptop peformance and browsing experience, or full featured media players. My fond memory is the time zone issue... "You mean I have to change the time zone manually? Even my stoopid Nokia knows what time zone I'm in for cripes sake." But many of the complaints were along the lines of interacting freely, without limitations, with other devices, such as via bluetooth. The crack, "I could do that with my..." was made a dozen times a day, easily. The fact that the BlackBerry was locked down and for good reason was just beyond these new members. The overall point is, for these users, what they were looking for and what they assumed they were getting was not BlackBerry.

I remember thinking back then that RIM should have started a diffent brand for the masses and not tried to make everyone happy with the one. I don't know. I don't know if RIM is in the spot they are in because they just misread what customers wanted and didn't see and understand what Apple and Google did 5-10 years ago. Or is there really even a large market for the BlackBerry concept?
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:24 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

I don't understand. RIM is way older on the smartphone market than Apple or Google and should have a bigger experience, especially cause it had fought Palm and windows mobiles in the past. They had seen it yet they decided to ignore the possibilities of a turn around.
Apple and Google had designed products for the mass but are incorporating it for corporations, while they dont achieve the corps they have the mass that support them. RIM in the other hand have the corps but havent survived the mass and is slowly loosing the corps which supports them. I cant say they will loose it but they better work more to get a better fight.
Im no developer (shouldn't really comment) but can't understand why would be so difficult to implement a OS for both users and companies. Just a few tweaks on the OS made remotely by the admins allowing and not allowing a few things should be more than enough. Would it be so hard to get it to work? I heard that OS7 would be tweakable so corporate users can enjoy more their smartphones and I guess that would be just about the solution.
Still, this does not rectify for the long time that is being taken to develop QNX to their smartphones or the time it takes for them to put their devices on the market... If that isnt bad management what would it be? What are the reasons for the other companies to be advancing in such a pace while RIM is somehow stuck?
Its not a rant and like most Im a customer just looking for the best of the company and trying to understand what is happening. Will they wait for another company to take over their enterprise service to start acting? By there it will be to late...
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:40 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

I know you don't understand. In my opinion I think you are making assumptions that aren't necessarily factual and then drawing conclusions that don't even follow.

I started to ask how old you were and then posted by accident before I could finish. The reason I ask is to gauge how much you've observed in your life. It came up on another thread that Apple was almost dead at one point but arose from the death bed when it brought back Jobs. The company that pretty much created the desktop computer nearly died and then came back to reinvent another market or two or three.

What new market have you created? What market have you reinvented? None? Why not? Are you lazy? Not to bright? Or maybe you are intelligent and work hard, but you just don't see what those others see. You can't build it or develop it or design it if you don't first imagine it.

The other point I made above is concept. RIM had a great concept, and I think it still does. Maybe it is like pickup trucks, or jeeps. You ever have one? They are popular in the U.S. The F-150 was the highest selling vehicle at one point in the U.S. and Ford probably still sells a lot of them. But it is still a truck. Ford and the others put nice sounds systems in them, power everything, nice upholstery...but it is still a truck. Many people want a truck because they need a truck, though not a lot of people as a fraction of all vehicle owners. And of course there are many who buy a truck or jeep because many others are doing the same, and then they realize their truck or jeep is just a damn truck or a damn jeep, and what they want is a sedan, or a sports car, or a sedan that performs like a sports car ...

Experience and smarts are necessary, but imagination is the biggie.

And I also think RIM has been trying to dress up a truck and sell it to people who will buy a dressed up truck but don't really need or want one.

Maybe RIM will stay on course, maybe survive in a niche, or not. Maybe instead it will evolve the BlackBerry brand to be whatever the lowest common denominator consumer wants. I don't know. I wish they were capable of making trucks, and sedans, and sports cars, and SUV's, and I could still buy a damn truck. Time will tell.

And, oh yeah, I think the reports of iOS and Android making inroads in the business space are being overblown. The business space is not some homogenized entity, not even within a given organization. It shouldn't be surprising that some business or professional person who has been using a truck all along because that was the best there was would switch to a four door sedan with smooth, quite ride when given the opportunity. But make no mistake, there are and will continue to be people who want and need a truck.

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Old 07-06-2011, 08:56 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

If my statements are full of misspelling I apologise as english isnt my first language but still, where it doesnt make sense?
Im happy to discuss and try to understand other ppl ideas.
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:30 AM   #36 (permalink)
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If my statements are full of misspelling I apologise as english isnt my first language but still, where it doesnt make sense?
Im happy to discuss and try to understand other ppl ideas.
Sorry about that. I hit post by accident (was on PlayBook). See my edit above.
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:58 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

I understand what you mean Aiharkness but what I mean is, RIM have inside knowledge of their business and live in todays market, they must think of their consumers expectations for future also evaluate the competition. They should have foreseen today, they may as well have known and obviously understand it better than I do. The fact is that after all, they are still slow!
What frustrate me, as well as many others, is see that even being so capable of much better, they somehow got themselves stuck on time.
I, at no point, believe they will be gone. Just expressing my feelings about the company.
Ive always liked to hear other ppl, I believe a healthy discussion promotes a enlightened mind.
What would you suggest about RIMs problem? I still blame mismanagement.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:57 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

I am not convinced RIM has a problem. I don't feel like a fan of a losing team. I have no stake in the price of RIMM stock (except unless my retirement plan owns RIMM, which is possible). I couldn't care less about RIM's market share. I'm happy with the BlackBerry I have now, I have been happy with those I have had before, and I am waiting for the next top of the line full qwerty model to be released on T-Mobile, which I will buy when it goes on sale. I will have a problem if RIM either screws up the BlackBerry by trying to imitate the competition, or RIM really is botching it so bad as to eventually become an unsustainable business enterprise.
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:07 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

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Originally Posted by aiharkness View Post
Some of the complaints were just stupid, as in expecting laptop peformance and browsing experience, or full featured media players. My fond memory is the time zone issue... "You mean I have to change the time zone manually? Even my stoopid Nokia knows what time zone I'm in for cripes sake."
So that was a "stupid" complaint, huh? Interestingly, now my 9800 Torch with OS6 also knows automatically what time zone I'm in, just like that ancient and "stoopid" Nokia did!

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Originally Posted by aiharkness View Post
But many of the complaints were along the lines of interacting freely, without limitations, with other devices, such as via bluetooth. The crack, "I could do that with my..." was made a dozen times a day, easily. The fact that the BlackBerry was locked down and for good reason was just beyond these new members.
With all due respect, sounds like some things here are beyond YOU too. The BlackBerry can be locked down tightly, and that's certainly one of its key strengths, you're right that far.

But the BlackBerry doesn't have to be locked down tightly, never has. That's done (very elegantly) via policies pushed down to the device from a BES server. No BES server, no policy, no lockdown. And to claim that the security-lockdown available via BES policy is somehow an excuse for lack of interoperability/interactivity, such as via bluetooth - is absurd beyond comprehension.

It IS possible to have a tightly locked down device when needed, and still have an open device when locked down is not needed. RIM showed how to do that a long time ago.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:29 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!

Dallas, I do get it. Don't nitpic what I'm saying.

First, back in that earlier time frame, the time zone issue was silly to me in the passion it provoked. There were probably two or three posts a week on average, and sometimes more than one per day. Just as today, nobody searches, and the time zone complainers were hot about this shortcoming. It colored their whole outlook on the BlackBerry. I just thought it was a small deal, and yes, a stupid complaint. If you were one who was complaining about it back then, I have no problem saying again, it was a little, a very little deal.
Today, the automatic feature nice. It is an improvement, and RIM did it right. Not like for a colleague who almost missed an early morning flight because a bug with a local tower or something reported the wrong time and his dumb iphone changed the time without warning and his alarm was an hour off.

Second, I never mentioned BES, you did. And locked down probably has a different meaning for you than I meant it. Re-read my post in the full context of what I was saying about my thoughts that RIM should have created another brand. You are making assumptions about what I'm referring to and what exactly I mean when I'm talking generally about years reading the forum and people complaining about stuff compared to their experiences with a prior device.

Many times I read the back and forth in a thread like I'm referring to and I think to myself that I'm happy the BlackBerry is the way it is, and I wouldn't want it to be the way the complainer would want it to be. It is for those people that I sometimes think it would have been better for RIM to have created a different brand instead of trying to sell them BlackBerrys.

I've never said BlackBerry is superior. It is what it is. It has a different focus. It works for me. Use what works best for you. And look at the entirety of a post instead of needling this and that little point.
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