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-   -   Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It! (http://www.blackberryforums.com/blackberry-news/250785-open-letter-rim-one-their-execs-rims-response.html)

Jack T. Chance 06-30-2011 07:38 PM

Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
OMG... I can't BELIEVE nobody here at BlackBerry Forums is talking about this yet! :shock:

Here's what's happened today:
  1. The Boy Genius Report posted an Open Letter to RIM from an Anonymous (but verified) RIM Senior Exec!
  2. RIM responded.
Wow. Just... wow. The sad thing is, everything that this RIM employee wrote is just DEAD ON. Many of us that use the phones, and many tech bloggers, have been saying much the same thing for months now. RIM has stalled... once, they pioneered the smart phone market and led the way for everyone else to follow. Now they're trailing behind, and it saddens me. While the general public may prefer their id10tPhones and their Android phones, I've yet to find a phone that is truly a worthy replacement for the BlackBerry for EMAIL, which is something I still rely on mine for.

Only time will tell if RIM can turn things around like they need to. Discuss amongst yourselves.

BB1877 06-30-2011 08:44 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Wow! I expected a lively discussion by now.

I've been supporting BlackBerry since 2004...I built the first server (shared with our Sametime server...yikes!) and ran the pilot..."just 30 or 40, company-wide" the CIO said.

We now have 700 some units on two BES. I have built and administered several servers over the years, seen generation after generation of handsets come and go. Different versions of BBDM, etc.

What am I carrying? An old Tour. It's roamed from Ireland to Manila to Turks & Caicos. Worked fine. Could I upgrade? Yes. Why do I still have a 5.0 Tour? Because I don't care anymore.

When we started getting 6.0 devices, I fiddled with it. "Browser still sucks" I thought and didn't bother to upgrade. I'm secretly hoping they let us get iPhone or Android devices so I'm saving my upgrade in my back pocket.

I have a collection of past devices in my office. From the stoic 7750 to the durable but clunky 7130, to Storms and Pearls. I have them all. Sitting there silently. A monument to Canadian technology.

But you know what? I can pick up a 8830 and it's very similar to a new Bold. No radical changes in four years. Four years. That's how long iPhone has been out.

My love affair with all things RIM ended with the original Storm. That thing was in Beta and they were charging for it. It was like Vista. What a horrible horrible device. I went to a dog and pony rollout breakfast and it was hard for the sales guys to hide their disappointment. Subsequent OS upgrades didn't do much for...it absolutely paled in comparison to an iPhone.

On the server and software side too, I've been disappointed. BBDM has gotten increasingly weird. There are simple functions you can't do in BlackBerry (server) Manager (like export all your phone numbers with SIM numbers for example). I was blindsided by a recent SRP infrastructure change...despite our TSupport contract we weren't notified until a week before the mandatory DNS entry change...

So yeah, I've held a Bold Touch. It exists. Had 7.0 on it. But again, it was like "Gee, that's so...evolutionary not revolutionary" I'm holding out folks...I'm an old BES admin and I'm holding out for a policy change to get an iPhone or Android.

penguin3107 06-30-2011 08:46 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack T. Chance (Post 1730440)
While the general public may prefer their id10tPhones and their Android phones

I'm an idiot because I choose to use an iPhone over a BlackBerry?

Jack T. Chance 07-01-2011 09:46 AM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by penguin3107 (Post 1730444)
I'm an idiot because I choose to use an iPhone over a BlackBerry?

That's just my pet name for the "JesusPhone", has been ever since it came out. Where it comes from is the actions of the rabid Apple Zombies that were all over internet forums during the first year or 2 after the product's introduction. Most of them were the type of people that, upon calling Tech Support, would be found to have a PEBCAK* error of the ID-10-T variety! :razz:

It also stems from my distaste for Apple's desire to have draconian control over what you can and can't do with your device and the data on it. Which is also why I don't like Verizon Wireless, either. (n)

I refuse to own an iPod for the same reasons. I HATE DRM with a passion. I use a Sandisk Sansa MP3 player so that I have full control of my digital music files and what I do with them, not the manufacturer of my device. But then again, I also still buy my music the old-fashioned way... on CDs, and then rip it myself at the bit-rate I prefer, rather than just buying the albums on iTunes pre-ripped at 128 kbps, which sounds like CRAP to me. :razz:




*Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard. :razz:

ifonline 07-01-2011 09:55 AM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack T. Chance (Post 1730511)
I refuse to own an iPod for the same reasons. I HATE DRM with a passion. I use a Sandisk Sansa MP3 player so that I have full control of my digital music files and what I do with them, not the manufacturer of my device.

Odd. I have an iPod and can do whatever I want with my music... and there is no DRM. Apple doesn't control my iPod, my music, or my life. But, I guess it's easier to keep the misinformation flowing to justify your use of the terms "JesusPhone" and "id10tPhones" and to make it easier to go with the masses and hurl insults at people that enjoy Apple products.

It's so chic to bash Apple, Apple products, and consumers that use Apple products it's nauseating, especially when those that do the bashing have no actual clue what they are talking about.

Jack T. Chance 07-01-2011 10:22 AM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
And... moving back ON topic...

here's the latest news today...

More letters to RIM; employees rally alongside anonymous exec

jsconyers 07-01-2011 10:51 AM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
The first letter was well written and offered solutions to the issues they're having. The second letter just sounds like a disgruntled employee whining. Offers nothing in the way the first letter did. Many companies have employees that feel that way. Nothing specific to RIM. The third letter was alight, not as good as the first. I just hope this doesn't become a trend. Otherwise, it will be more and more like the second letter repeated. I am not really interested in hearing about people whine.

ArgonNJ 07-01-2011 11:39 AM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack T. Chance (Post 1730511)
That's just my pet name for the "JesusPhone", has been ever since it came out. Where it comes from is the actions of the rabid Apple Zombies that were all over internet forums during the first year or 2 after the product's introduction. Most of them were the type of people that, upon calling Tech Support, would be found to have a PEBCAK* error of the ID-10-T variety! :razz:

It also stems from my distaste for Apple's desire to have draconian control over what you can and can't do with your device and the data on it. Which is also why I don't like Verizon Wireless, either. (n)

I refuse to own an iPod for the same reasons. I HATE DRM with a passion. I use a Sandisk Sansa MP3 player so that I have full control of my digital music files and what I do with them, not the manufacturer of my device. But then again, I also still buy my music the old-fashioned way... on CDs, and then rip it myself at the bit-rate I prefer, rather than just buying the albums on iTunes pre-ripped at 128 kbps, which sounds like CRAP to me. :razz:




*Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard. :razz:

I have news for you, the iphone may have been a curiosity when it first came out, but now it has over taken and surpassed the BB in almost every way. Keep clinging to the past, but the iphone is what a smartphone should be.

NJBlackBerry 07-01-2011 11:53 AM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
You still using your iPhone? Did you switch to the latest consumer trend or are you back in the fold like a good sheep?

aiharkness 07-01-2011 12:36 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
I'm afraid our good friend Argon only knows one song, and it isn't even original.

Jack T. Chance 07-01-2011 02:09 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ArgonNJ (Post 1730530)
I have news for you, the iphone may have been a curiosity when it first came out, but now it has over taken and surpassed the BB in almost every way. Keep clinging to the past, but the iphone is what a smartphone should be.

Unless you're a touch-typist and prefer a PHYSICAL KEYBOARD! :razz:

Luckily, there are iPhone cases that include a flip or slide out Bluetooth QWERTY keyboard to solve that problem. But IF I switch away from a :bb: on my next phone upgrade, it will most likely be to go to an Android phone w/ a QWERTY keyboard BUILT-IN. Why should I have to buy a real, tactile keyboard separately? That makes no sense to me. (n)

ifonline 07-01-2011 02:12 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
So wait... are we back off-topic again? I think I'm starting to see how this works for you.

juwaack68 07-01-2011 03:06 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Still got that popcorn handy?

ifonline 07-01-2011 03:10 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
I do. I went with cheddar this time. That's what you like, isn't it? Or was it caramel. Dang... now I'm starting to think I got the wrong kind.

juwaack68 07-01-2011 03:12 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Cheddar will do, but caramel would be better.

I'm sure there will be a next time.... :razz:

ifonline 07-01-2011 03:16 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Hold on... I'll be back in a few minutes. Running down to the warehouse store to grab a pallet of caramel popcorn.

juwaack68 07-01-2011 03:24 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
*waiting*

ifonline 07-01-2011 03:29 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Give me a bit longer. I didn't realize how many boxes of popcorn came on a pallet. I'm trying to get them to fit in the trunk, but I feel like I'm trying to stuff a clown car.

juwaack68 07-01-2011 03:35 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
I'm gonna need a visual of that.

applauz 07-03-2011 09:45 AM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
There is a new letter that has come out from another employee. Both are DEAD ON!

knottyrope 07-05-2011 09:55 AM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
A BlackBerry developer speaks out "Why I develop for BlackBerry: BlackBerry Dev Speaks Out in “Letter from Outer Space” - BerryReview

Jack T. Chance 07-05-2011 01:06 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by knottyrope (Post 1731203)
A BlackBerry developer speaks out "Why I develop for BlackBerry: BlackBerry Dev Speaks Out in “Letter from Outer Space” - BerryReview

Thanks for that link, very interesting article. But I do wish he'd had someone proofread and edit the grammar in his article before posting it, the grammar's off in many places. In the business world, poor grammar really damages your credibility. (n)

But then again, we live in a day and age when the Nook Book edition of a book can ship to customers with DOZENS of typos that even Spell Checker would have caught, so obviously the old standards are being thrown out the window left & right. (n)

Cooper 07-05-2011 01:26 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack T. Chance (Post 1731233)
Thanks for that link, very interesting article. But I do wish he'd had someone proofread and edit the grammar in his article before posting it, the grammar's off in many places. In the business world, poor grammar really damages your credibility. (n)

But then again, we live in a day and age when the Nook Book edition of a book can ship to customers with DOZENS of typos that even Spell Checker would have caught, so obviously the old standards are being thrown out the window left & right. (n)

Jack, did you ever think that English is not this guy's native language and that he probably spent quite a while just typing the thing out? Maybe he doesn't have an English spelling and grammar checker, maybe if he even did have them he wouldn't necessarily know which corrections to actually make, nor did he have someone more proficient to help him proof it.

He's an independent developer who just wanted to get a story and an opinion out. He's not a writer, his first language is not English.

He isn't technically a business man so I'm not too sure where you're going with your comments to his poor grammar and spelling. I read it, I got what he was saying and I applaud him for writing such an in-depth article when nobody asked him to.

Hell.. my spell checker in FireFox tells me to capitalize English, I didn't think languages needed capitalization but the spell checker thinks I'm talking about the actual people.

I just don't get what your criticism is about, "it's a great article but any possible credibility it had is now out the window because of grammar and spelling"?

Jack T. Chance 07-05-2011 01:57 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooper (Post 1731235)
Jack, did you ever think that English is not this guy's native language and that he probably spent quite a while just typing the thing out? Maybe he doesn't have an English spelling and grammar checker, maybe if he even did have them he wouldn't necessarily know which corrections to actually make, nor did he have someone more proficient to help him proof it.

He's an independent developer who just wanted to get a story and an opinion out. He's not a writer, his first language is not English.

He isn't technically a business man so I'm not too sure where you're going with your comments to his poor grammar and spelling. I read it, I got what he was saying and I applaud him for writing such an in-depth article when nobody asked him to.

Hell.. my spell checker in FireFox tells me to capitalize English, I didn't think languages needed capitalization but the spell checker thinks I'm talking about the actual people.

I just don't get what your criticism is about, "it's a great article but any possible credibility it had is now out the window because of grammar and spelling"?

It's just one of my biggest pet peeves that the English-speaking world's standards in regards to spelling and grammar are being rapidly eroded by the internet age. (n)

Oh and he's a Software Developer whose job is developing software to meet a client's needs. Clients hire him to develop the software they need. That's the very definition of a business man. He's in BUSINESS to serve his clients' needs. So I disagree with your assessment that he "isn't technically a business man." He also stated that he's been in the business for 30 years. He's a "lifer", been doing this awhile. :razz:

stevetaz 07-05-2011 02:27 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
It may be a pet peeve, but I don't think the International businessperson who may not know all the nuances of a language like English is the one ruining (butchering?) the language.

Reading through his blog I think he did a pretty good job of communicating using English. I understood it. And he does include this disclaimer:
"Hint: English isn't my native language, so excuse me if anything is wrong written or misspelled. Feel free to ask if you don't understand anything"

Now the 15 year-olds using text-speak as English.....Them I am worried about. Also the recent college graduates who don't understand there is a difference between "their" and "there"....Them I am very worried about.

Jack T. Chance 07-05-2011 02:58 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stevetaz (Post 1731241)
It may be a pet peeve, but I don't think the International businessperson who may not know all the nuances of a language like English is the one ruining (butchering?) the language.

Reading through his blog I think he did a pretty good job of communicating using English. I understood it. And he does include this disclaimer:
"Hint: English isn't my native language, so excuse me if anything is wrong written or misspelled. Feel free to ask if you don't understand anything"

You know what? I missed seeing that disclaimer. I was skimming through the article and somehow missed it. So that's my bad. :oops:
Quote:

Now the 15 year-olds using text-speak as English.....Them I am worried about. Also the recent college graduates who don't understand there is a difference between "their" and "there"....Them I am very worried about.
Ohhhh yeah. They make me weep for the future of the human race. :cry:(n)

aiharkness 07-05-2011 03:57 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Yeah, I understood his native language is German.

But I can already anticipate the responses to the article: First, nothing the guy says matters because the marketplace is rejecting BlackBerry OS in favor of Android, first, and iOS, second, and soon windows mobile OS. And even if you don't believe that, well, BlackBerry is no longer unique as Android and iOS are nearly there on the things that used to set BlackBerry apart. And if you don't believe that, well, those things that are supposedly important aren't, not really, because users don't care. And if you argue that, well ... well, I'll come up with something. And, oh yeah, there's 10s and 10s and 10s of thousands more apps for Android, and almost that many for iOS, and nothing for BlackBerry, and those are junk. ...

I don't know, old men designing solutions for old men is working for me. Long live old men.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

ifonline 07-05-2011 04:06 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aiharkness (Post 1731248)
Long live old men.

The problem is that this is not naturally possible. Old men die. Or get dementia. Might want to come up with a better slogan. :razz:

aiharkness 07-05-2011 04:33 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
True, but they get replaced. However, more to the point, my meaning is that different people have different priorities, and it is like RIM is designing for me. Last thing I want is for RIM to start designing for someone else. So, long live a company of old men designing for old men.*

*Someone, maybe it was that open letter at BGR, stated something along the lines of RIM being a bunch of old men sitting around specifying devices according to their ideas and not to what the marketplace wants. I believe the example was choosing what colors to make devices.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

ifonline 07-05-2011 07:54 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Actually, I understood what you meant, I was just giving you grief.

Thiego-uk 07-06-2011 05:20 AM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
OK, after all of this, shouldn't RIM board just sack the CEOs for being so lazy? Seriously, even that 2 yo kid from the Apple fanboy video would have seem this market change without innovations. Also, its being over a year that RIM acquired QNX yet haven't developed it's platform to a smartphone!!! What a heck?! I blame bad (if not stupid) management, lack of comms and creativity!
Some heads should be rolling already and they are not the ones of the small workman who is sat on his desk doing what he is told by his blind managers!

aiharkness 07-06-2011 05:58 AM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
They aren't lazy. And they aren't stupid. Maybe they lack the necessary imagination, but they no doubt work hard and they're intelligent.

I have mixed feelings. The one thing I'm almost sure of is that RIM's concept of the purpose of their device is entirely different than the way their competion views their own products. And I doubt RIM can produce a BlackBerry that appeals to the masses and still works for those who chose BlackBerry in the first place and have stayed with it because of what it does for them. I just don't know if it is even possible. Maybe it is. I don't know anything.

A long time ago, in the days just before and just after the 8100 was released, when the forum was being flooded with new members who were buying new BlackBerrys and some just any BlackBerry they could find, and so many of them were disappointed. Some of the complaints were just stupid, as in expecting laptop peformance and browsing experience, or full featured media players. My fond memory is the time zone issue... "You mean I have to change the time zone manually? Even my stoopid Nokia knows what time zone I'm in for cripes sake." But many of the complaints were along the lines of interacting freely, without limitations, with other devices, such as via bluetooth. The crack, "I could do that with my..." was made a dozen times a day, easily. The fact that the BlackBerry was locked down and for good reason was just beyond these new members. The overall point is, for these users, what they were looking for and what they assumed they were getting was not BlackBerry.

I remember thinking back then that RIM should have started a diffent brand for the masses and not tried to make everyone happy with the one. I don't know. I don't know if RIM is in the spot they are in because they just misread what customers wanted and didn't see and understand what Apple and Google did 5-10 years ago. Or is there really even a large market for the BlackBerry concept?

Thiego-uk 07-06-2011 07:24 AM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
I don't understand. RIM is way older on the smartphone market than Apple or Google and should have a bigger experience, especially cause it had fought Palm and windows mobiles in the past. They had seen it yet they decided to ignore the possibilities of a turn around.
Apple and Google had designed products for the mass but are incorporating it for corporations, while they dont achieve the corps they have the mass that support them. RIM in the other hand have the corps but havent survived the mass and is slowly loosing the corps which supports them. I cant say they will loose it but they better work more to get a better fight.
Im no developer (shouldn't really comment) but can't understand why would be so difficult to implement a OS for both users and companies. Just a few tweaks on the OS made remotely by the admins allowing and not allowing a few things should be more than enough. Would it be so hard to get it to work? I heard that OS7 would be tweakable so corporate users can enjoy more their smartphones and I guess that would be just about the solution.
Still, this does not rectify for the long time that is being taken to develop QNX to their smartphones or the time it takes for them to put their devices on the market... If that isnt bad management what would it be? What are the reasons for the other companies to be advancing in such a pace while RIM is somehow stuck?
Its not a rant and like most Im a customer just looking for the best of the company and trying to understand what is happening. Will they wait for another company to take over their enterprise service to start acting? By there it will be to late...

aiharkness 07-06-2011 07:40 AM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
I know you don't understand. In my opinion I think you are making assumptions that aren't necessarily factual and then drawing conclusions that don't even follow.

I started to ask how old you were and then posted by accident before I could finish. The reason I ask is to gauge how much you've observed in your life. It came up on another thread that Apple was almost dead at one point but arose from the death bed when it brought back Jobs. The company that pretty much created the desktop computer nearly died and then came back to reinvent another market or two or three.

What new market have you created? What market have you reinvented? None? Why not? Are you lazy? Not to bright? Or maybe you are intelligent and work hard, but you just don't see what those others see. You can't build it or develop it or design it if you don't first imagine it.

The other point I made above is concept. RIM had a great concept, and I think it still does. Maybe it is like pickup trucks, or jeeps. You ever have one? They are popular in the U.S. The F-150 was the highest selling vehicle at one point in the U.S. and Ford probably still sells a lot of them. But it is still a truck. Ford and the others put nice sounds systems in them, power everything, nice upholstery...but it is still a truck. Many people want a truck because they need a truck, though not a lot of people as a fraction of all vehicle owners. And of course there are many who buy a truck or jeep because many others are doing the same, and then they realize their truck or jeep is just a damn truck or a damn jeep, and what they want is a sedan, or a sports car, or a sedan that performs like a sports car ...

Experience and smarts are necessary, but imagination is the biggie.

And I also think RIM has been trying to dress up a truck and sell it to people who will buy a dressed up truck but don't really need or want one.

Maybe RIM will stay on course, maybe survive in a niche, or not. Maybe instead it will evolve the BlackBerry brand to be whatever the lowest common denominator consumer wants. I don't know. I wish they were capable of making trucks, and sedans, and sports cars, and SUV's, and I could still buy a damn truck. Time will tell.

And, oh yeah, I think the reports of iOS and Android making inroads in the business space are being overblown. The business space is not some homogenized entity, not even within a given organization. It shouldn't be surprising that some business or professional person who has been using a truck all along because that was the best there was would switch to a four door sedan with smooth, quite ride when given the opportunity. But make no mistake, there are and will continue to be people who want and need a truck.

Thiego-uk 07-06-2011 07:56 AM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
If my statements are full of misspelling I apologise as english isnt my first language but still, where it doesnt make sense?
Im happy to discuss and try to understand other ppl ideas.

aiharkness 07-06-2011 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thiego-uk (Post 1731340)
If my statements are full of misspelling I apologise as english isnt my first language but still, where it doesnt make sense?
Im happy to discuss and try to understand other ppl ideas.

Sorry about that. I hit post by accident (was on PlayBook). See my edit above.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

Thiego-uk 07-06-2011 08:58 AM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
I understand what you mean Aiharkness but what I mean is, RIM have inside knowledge of their business and live in todays market, they must think of their consumers expectations for future also evaluate the competition. They should have foreseen today, they may as well have known and obviously understand it better than I do. The fact is that after all, they are still slow!
What frustrate me, as well as many others, is see that even being so capable of much better, they somehow got themselves stuck on time.
I, at no point, believe they will be gone. Just expressing my feelings about the company.
Ive always liked to hear other ppl, I believe a healthy discussion promotes a enlightened mind.
What would you suggest about RIMs problem? I still blame mismanagement.

aiharkness 07-06-2011 02:57 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
I am not convinced RIM has a problem. I don't feel like a fan of a losing team. I have no stake in the price of RIMM stock (except unless my retirement plan owns RIMM, which is possible). I couldn't care less about RIM's market share. I'm happy with the BlackBerry I have now, I have been happy with those I have had before, and I am waiting for the next top of the line full qwerty model to be released on T-Mobile, which I will buy when it goes on sale. I will have a problem if RIM either screws up the BlackBerry by trying to imitate the competition, or RIM really is botching it so bad as to eventually become an unsustainable business enterprise.

DallasFlier 07-06-2011 03:07 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aiharkness (Post 1731321)
Some of the complaints were just stupid, as in expecting laptop peformance and browsing experience, or full featured media players. My fond memory is the time zone issue... "You mean I have to change the time zone manually? Even my stoopid Nokia knows what time zone I'm in for cripes sake."

So that was a "stupid" complaint, huh? Interestingly, now my 9800 Torch with OS6 also knows automatically what time zone I'm in, just like that ancient and "stoopid" Nokia did!

Quote:

Originally Posted by aiharkness (Post 1731321)
But many of the complaints were along the lines of interacting freely, without limitations, with other devices, such as via bluetooth. The crack, "I could do that with my..." was made a dozen times a day, easily. The fact that the BlackBerry was locked down and for good reason was just beyond these new members.

With all due respect, sounds like some things here are beyond YOU too. The BlackBerry can be locked down tightly, and that's certainly one of its key strengths, you're right that far.

But the BlackBerry doesn't have to be locked down tightly, never has. That's done (very elegantly) via policies pushed down to the device from a BES server. No BES server, no policy, no lockdown. And to claim that the security-lockdown available via BES policy is somehow an excuse for lack of interoperability/interactivity, such as via bluetooth - is absurd beyond comprehension.

It IS possible to have a tightly locked down device when needed, and still have an open device when locked down is not needed. RIM showed how to do that a long time ago.

aiharkness 07-06-2011 05:29 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Dallas, I do get it. Don't nitpic what I'm saying.

First, back in that earlier time frame, the time zone issue was silly to me in the passion it provoked. There were probably two or three posts a week on average, and sometimes more than one per day. Just as today, nobody searches, and the time zone complainers were hot about this shortcoming. It colored their whole outlook on the BlackBerry. I just thought it was a small deal, and yes, a stupid complaint. If you were one who was complaining about it back then, I have no problem saying again, it was a little, a very little deal.
Today, the automatic feature nice. It is an improvement, and RIM did it right. Not like for a colleague who almost missed an early morning flight because a bug with a local tower or something reported the wrong time and his dumb iphone changed the time without warning and his alarm was an hour off.

Second, I never mentioned BES, you did. And locked down probably has a different meaning for you than I meant it. Re-read my post in the full context of what I was saying about my thoughts that RIM should have created another brand. You are making assumptions about what I'm referring to and what exactly I mean when I'm talking generally about years reading the forum and people complaining about stuff compared to their experiences with a prior device.

Many times I read the back and forth in a thread like I'm referring to and I think to myself that I'm happy the BlackBerry is the way it is, and I wouldn't want it to be the way the complainer would want it to be. It is for those people that I sometimes think it would have been better for RIM to have created a different brand instead of trying to sell them BlackBerrys.

I've never said BlackBerry is superior. It is what it is. It has a different focus. It works for me. Use what works best for you. And look at the entirety of a post instead of needling this and that little point.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

DallasFlier 07-07-2011 12:03 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aiharkness (Post 1731441)
Dallas, I do get it. Don't nitpic what I'm saying.

First, back in that earlier time frame, the time zone issue was silly to me in the passion it provoked. There were probably two or three posts a week on average, and sometimes more than one per day. Just as today, nobody searches, and the time zone complainers were hot about this shortcoming. It colored their whole outlook on the BlackBerry. I just thought it was a small deal, and yes, a stupid complaint. If you were one who was complaining about it back then, I have no problem saying again, it was a little, a very little deal.
Today, the automatic feature nice. It is an improvement, and RIM did it right. Not like for a colleague who almost missed an early morning flight because a bug with a local tower or something reported the wrong time and his dumb iphone changed the time without warning and his alarm was an hour off.

Second, I never mentioned BES, you did. And locked down probably has a different meaning for you than I meant it. Re-read my post in the full context of what I was saying about my thoughts that RIM should have created another brand. You are making assumptions about what I'm referring to and what exactly I mean when I'm talking generally about years reading the forum and people complaining about stuff compared to their experiences with a prior device.

Many times I read the back and forth in a thread like I'm referring to and I think to myself that I'm happy the BlackBerry is the way it is, and I wouldn't want it to be the way the complainer would want it to be. It is for those people that I sometimes think it would have been better for RIM to have created a different brand instead of trying to sell them BlackBerrys.

I've never said BlackBerry is superior. It is what it is. It has a different focus. It works for me. Use what works best for you. And look at the entirety of a post instead of needling this and that little point.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

I wasn't nitpicking what you were saying at all. I know you didn't mention BES, but you mentioned that those who complained that Blackberry didn't interface with other devices "such as via BlueTooth", were uninformed/stupid because the reason for that was that BlackBerry was "locked down." Yes, I brought up BES at that point, because without BES, BlackBerry is NOT locked down. And you said (and repeated) that the complaints about no automatic time zone changes were also "stupid", so I was reminding you that no, they weren't, because eventually RIM finally managed to make BlackBerry do what other phones (and smartphones) had done for a long time. That's a whole different complaint then complaining that people don't search and post redundantly.

Yes, I thought that the fact that my (numerous) BlackBerry's would never automatically switch time zones (until my OS6 Torch) was stupid, but no, I didn't bother posting that here ever, because I saw the existing postings about it.

Now I will say that your thought that RIM should create a totally different brand/device for consumers is pretty dumb. I don't see ANY smartphone manufacturers doing that - different lines for business vs. consumer. As I said, RIM already has a superior mechanism for taking one single device and making it work well for consumer and business - and that's BES with its controls and capabilities. Does that mean that BlackBerry is a competitive consumer device today? No, they let themselves fall behind, no doubt. But they certainly can/could make a very competitive consumer device, and then use BES to lock it down into a best-of-class secure business device. Two distinct and separate product lines is a pretty lousy idea - the huge win is to provide the best, most flexible products satisfying both sets of requirements.

Obviously BlackBerry works for me too, I'm still using one - my 5th or 6th over the last 7 years or so. Like anything else, they're superior in some ways, and inferior in others. And they still have some "features" which are so dumb as to be mind-boggling. The most obvious which comes to mind is that the setting for turning off mobile data services ALSO turns off WiFi data services. That's just dumb, but its there. And I continue to use my 9800 despite dumb stuff like that, because like you, it works best for me.

aiharkness 07-07-2011 12:49 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
User error....deleted double post.

aiharkness 07-07-2011 01:19 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Sorry. No. I didn't intend that I think the later complaints were stupid or invalid. I'm responding to another post and I say I have mixed feelings, and why, and how my thinking has developed. I was trying to draw a distinction between what I view as overblown types of complaints and those complaints that are valid maybe for some types of users. And the additional point I'm am making is that from my perspective those later things that peoplle were complaining about, like the hassels of BT file transfers, BT transfers of contact lists, etc. were on purpose. My memory on the exact complaints is a jumble. Suffice it to say my impression after reading both sides of the debate is I was left with the impression that what the complainers had a problem with is the way it is for a reason, and it made sense to me. You can say it doesn't make sense, fine. I'm not arguing the point.

Also, not to beat a dead horse, on the time zone thing, it was the whole issue and how the complainers, in my opinion, were making a mountain out of a mole hill. The fact that RIM later added the automatic feature doesn't mean it was a mountain. Stupid probably wasn't the right word for me to use. I'll say the whole argument back then was rediculous, in my opinion.

My thought that RIM maybe should have created a different brand may be dumb. I admitted as much myself. Or, by idea of brand may be close to your idea of line, except I'm thinking different name for the other line. You and others say RIM can and should satisfy everyone with BlackBerry. I'm not convinced. All I know is what I read and the little of that which I can understand.

I thought my profile was obvious, but maybe not. I'm a user, a consumer, with average or above average experience with computers and BlackBerry. But consumers are not some group of exactly like minded people. I don't use BES, don't want it, but neither to I want an open device, if open is what I think it is. I value security way more than convenience. When I read about rooting android devices and jailbreaking iphones, I think no thanks. Not that an iphone appeals to me, but if Apple can't prevent jailbreaking, why should I consider buying an iphone? Maybe I don't understand, but I go with what I think I do understand, and my priorities.

You say, I guess, that we can both have what we want in a BlackBerry if RIM would just make it so. I'm not sure.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

DallasFlier 07-07-2011 01:29 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aiharkness (Post 1731617)
My thought that RIM maybe should have created a different brand may be dumb. I admitted as much myself. Or, by idea of brand may be close to your idea of line, except I'm thinking different name for the other line. You and others say RIM can and should satisfy everyone with BlackBerry. I'm not convinced. All I know is what I read and the little of that which I can understand.

You say, I guess, that we can both have what we want in a BlackBerry if RIM would just make it so. I'm not sure.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

So I guess Apple is doomed then, huh? Because obviously their strategy is that everyone can have what they want in a single phone. I think RIM has several pieces of technology enabling them to do a better job than Apple at the "one phone for everyone" strategy. Whether they leverage those pieces to the max and develop the right device remains to be seen, of course.

aiharkness 07-07-2011 02:00 PM

Re: Open Letter to RIM From One of Their Execs & RIM's Response to It!
 
I truly don't get your logic. It may be that Apple's strategy is one size fits all, but it doesn't mean it's possible. Apple's strategy does not make it fact that it can be done. And isn't Apple still aways away from proving it? On the other hand, it also doesn't mean Apple is doomed if it is wrong.

I do hope you are right, though, because it would mean less risk RIM is going to compromise on BlackBerry in going after "the consumer" who is in actuality the least common denominator.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile


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