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Old 10-08-2007, 06:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Can anyone here explain why I would want to use BBC connect over the Microsoft Push?

Now, let me clarify, I came from using Blackberrys for the past 5 years. I like them and I like the service but the BBC software seems to over-complicate things. Why not just use the microsoft solution if it delivers the same content in a similar manner.

I don't want an answer from the IT admin's point of view, i am more concerned with the user experience. Maybe I am missing something but I don't see the use of BBC.

Any thoughts?

BTW, I just switched from a Curve to a Tilt, hence the question. Thanks.
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Old 10-08-2007, 08:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I really like Direct Push. It allows the synchronization of email, calendar, contacts, and tasks over the air. All of it is pushed immediately when a change is made either on the device or in Outlook. However, it does require that the user have access to an Exchange server. This is just what a BlackBerry requires to synchronize in the same way. Both must be connected to an Exchange server. BlackBerry's requirement is more expensive though, as it requires BES on top of the Exchange account.

From the perspective of a user there is no real advantage or disadvantage to either Direct Push Or BlackBerry Connect on a BES.

BlackBerry Connect does allow you to have as many as ten push email accounts though. This is something that is not available for Windows Mobile without BB Connect. If you only need one push account then there is no advantage to BB Connect.
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Old 10-08-2007, 08:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinhead View Post
I really like Direct Push. It allows the synchronization of email, calendar, contacts, and tasks over the air. All of it is pushed immediately when a change is made either on the device or in Outlook. However, it does require that the user have access to an Exchange server. This is just what a BlackBerry requires to synchronize in the same way. Both must be connected to an Exchange server. BlackBerry's requirement is more expensive though, as it requires BES on top of the Exchange account.

From the perspective of a user there is no real advantage or disadvantage to either Direct Push Or BlackBerry Connect on a BES.

BlackBerry Connect does allow you to have as many as ten push email accounts though. This is something that is not available for Windows Mobile without BB Connect. If you only need one push account then there is no advantage to BB Connect.

So then is it possible to use Push for my work, then use BBconnect only for BIS?
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Old 10-09-2007, 12:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
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It is possible but not a very good solution on the Tilt. Since it is a Windows Mobile phone it is unable to run both Direct Push and BlackBerry Connect simultaneously the way that Nokia's E series and N series devices can. With the Tilt, you will have to disconnect the BB Connect sofware to use Direct Push, and when you want to go back to BB Connect you will need to disconnect DP.

Cumbersome.

The limitation is not the BB Connect service. Windows Mobile can't seem to handle more than one internet connection at a time. Thus, if the BB Connect software can't share its connection, the device cannot use the net for anything else without disabling that first.

Since you already have the Tilt I suggest sticking to MS Direct Push. Yeah, you will be limited to only one push email account, but it will not interfere with other uses of the device. If you were still about to buy a device, I would suggest looking carefully at the Nokia E61i, E90, and an actual Blackberry (8300 series or 8800 series).
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Old 10-09-2007, 03:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pinhead View Post
It is possible but not a very good solution on the Tilt. Since it is a Windows Mobile phone it is unable to run both Direct Push and BlackBerry Connect simultaneously the way that Nokia's E series and N series devices can. With the Tilt, you will have to disconnect the BB Connect sofware to use Direct Push, and when you want to go back to BB Connect you will need to disconnect DP.

Cumbersome.

The limitation is not the BB Connect service. Windows Mobile can't seem to handle more than one internet connection at a time. Thus, if the BB Connect software can't share its connection, the device cannot use the net for anything else without disabling that first.

Since you already have the Tilt I suggest sticking to MS Direct Push. Yeah, you will be limited to only one push email account, but it will not interfere with other uses of the device. If you were still about to buy a device, I would suggest looking carefully at the Nokia E61i, E90, and an actual Blackberry (8300 series or 8800 series).

I actually just dumped the 8300. I needed something that was more than just business. I am liking it so far. Thanks for all the info.
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:10 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinhead View Post
It is possible but not a very good solution on the Tilt. Since it is a Windows Mobile phone it is unable to run both Direct Push and BlackBerry Connect simultaneously the way that Nokia's E series and N series devices can. With the Tilt, you will have to disconnect the BB Connect sofware to use Direct Push, and when you want to go back to BB Connect you will need to disconnect DP.

Cumbersome.

The limitation is not the BB Connect service. Windows Mobile can't seem to handle more than one internet connection at a time. Thus, if the BB Connect software can't share its connection, the device cannot use the net for anything else without disabling that first.

Since you already have the Tilt I suggest sticking to MS Direct Push. Yeah, you will be limited to only one push email account, but it will not interfere with other uses of the device. If you were still about to buy a device, I would suggest looking carefully at the Nokia E61i, E90, and an actual Blackberry (8300 series or 8800 series).
For anyone that actually cares...I found out that you can, in fact, run Direct Push and Blackberry Connect at the same time. I use the BIS and the Direct Push. It is a great solution. Both work seamlessly. Just thought I would share, if anyone even reads this post
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Old 10-11-2007, 07:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Wait, so you actually have Direct Pushand BlackBerry Connect running on the Tilt simultaneously?? I have never managed to do that with a Windows Mobile device and everyone I have asked about this in regard to the Tilt has said that they couldn't do it. It is definitely good news if it can do this without one of these programs disabling the other...
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Old 10-12-2007, 02:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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You can do it for sure. The key is that I am not trying to sync the same info. I get my BIS accounts on my device through BB Connect and then all of my PIM stuff through Direct Push. No conflicts.

I don't think the order matters but I set up the Direct push first got everything working the way I wanted and then installed BB Connect, let it do it's thing, then sent over my service books. Try it out, it works really well. It is the best of both worlds, literally.
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Old 10-12-2007, 12:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I am facing the same question here. My previous employer has Exchange and it worked very well with my 8700g. Later, when I move to my current employer which only supports IMAP, having a BB makes very little sense.

Now I am using a 8525 with WM6. Although the default poutlook doesn't support IDEL which means no push for me, the interface is much better than Flexmail 2007 which does IDEL very nice. Here I am stuck with IMAP every 5 min. Meanwhile, I got a hosted exchange and use activesync to get my personal e-mail as well as contact and celender sync in real time. One bonus is I don't need to pay $10 for BES and another $10 for BB support from the Exchange host. That's a nice $20 saving each month
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinhead View Post
The limitation is not the BB Connect service. Windows Mobile can't seem to handle more than one internet connection at a time. Thus, if the BB Connect software can't share its connection, the device cannot use the net for anything else without disabling that first.
The limitation is mostly on the GSM firmware/hardware. I had used many WM devices in the past, some work with multiple connections, some didn't.

The HTC Excalibur worked fine for me with two connections seamless, like fmp mentioned. For my Tilt, weirdly, it is not working. I had to suspend the BBC to sync via Direct Push. But I had it setup as BBC first, then Push later (along with second APN).

Also pinhead, the limit on WM devices is 3 for BIS accounts, not 10.

Maybe I'll give it another shot. While I have your attention, does anyone know a good software that can alert differently for PIN messages on a WM device? I tried pocketmax.net's PhoneAlarm, but even with its custom settings, there is still problems. What I would love to do is to get the device to vibrate for emails coming to Blackberry folder, and vibrate and sound with repeat for PIN.
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Old 10-30-2007, 05:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
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So following along with this thread.....If i switched from bbc to direct push, would i then be able to use my im programs (im+, skype) without suspending direct push ? (is it another program or just a setting ?)
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Old 10-30-2007, 08:11 PM   #12 (permalink)
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So following along with this thread.....If i switched from bbc to direct push, would i then be able to use my im programs (im+, skype) without suspending direct push ? (is it another program or just a setting ?)
Direct Push is a part of the ActiveSync, and no you can use all your programs without suspending direct push, as they will all happily share the same Internet connection.
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:49 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The issue is, and I believe it is carrier related is WM5/6 can have an option to support Multiple APNs.

If your carrier supports it, then WM can do both BBConnect and Exchange Push.

However that requirement is stored in the SIM card, so even if you change the required registry setting, on reboot it re-sets itself.

Enabling Multiple APN Support

I had to drop BBConnect for a 3rd party Exchange Push.

The only thing I have not been able to re-produce is the autoBCC that the BIS offers.

However, being able to type ahead my address book, able to do other things on the internet without losing my push email, and HTML email are reasons to move away from BBConnect at this time.
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:58 AM   #14 (permalink)
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For me it's not push per se (Direct or otherwise) that's the issue. Pull email with a reasonably short automatic poll time is ok (many carriers have 'unlimited' data plans anyway now). But for me the BB solution scores because:

- Still class leading battery life. After the battery goes flat, it's "mail when recharged" anyway

- It just works like it's supposed to. Few quirks, problems or dramas. Dependable. I'm not sure if the end-to-end MS solution is as robust yet.

Last edited by wibbly : 12-07-2007 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 12-07-2007, 10:01 AM   #15 (permalink)
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For me it's not push per se (Direct or otherwise) that's the issue. Pull email with a reasonably short automatic poll time is ok. But for me the BB solution scores because

- Still class leading battery life. After the battery goes flat, it's "mail when recharged" anyway

- It just works like it's supposed to. Few quirks, problems or dramas. Dependable. I'm not sure if the end-to-end MS solution is as robust yet.
I agree

and for a pure BB, there is no question.

However BBConnect and WM have some issues.

You are always fighting with BBConnect for a connection. If I am on Opera and let it idle for one minute, BBConnect tries to re-establish itself. I can't use Skype at all with BBConnect running and when I am slingbox'ing I get no emails.

If you could get either everything to go through BBConnects APN and/or Allow BBConnect to use any connection, that would go along way.
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Old 12-07-2007, 10:22 AM   #16 (permalink)
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However BBConnect and WM have some issues.
Yes, I had some experience of BBConnect in it's early days. Not Good at all then, and has put me off reconsidering indefinately. Just poor integration in all sorts of ways with the host handsets.

RIM's been suggesting they may have a "whole BB in software" (i.e. including the apps) at some point for Windows Mobile devices. That *might* be better, if it's implemented as a complete (un-integrated) virtual device in your Windows Mobile handset. People could then choose to run one 'device' or the other on the same hardware, and the BB part may work better than BBConnect does now, as they won't have to integrate Windows Mobile apps and OS with it in the same way.

My opinion is that trying to have two PIM OTA sync engines both trying to integrate with the same applications (albeit not the same email accounts, or not both trying to sync the same calendar etc) is just asking for trouble. Especially as MS and RIM don't quite see eye-to-eye at many levels!

Last edited by wibbly : 12-07-2007 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 12-07-2007, 10:25 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I couldn't agree with you more!
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:07 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcohen999 View Post
The issue is, and I believe it is carrier related is WM5/6 can have an option to support Multiple APNs.

If your carrier supports it, then WM can do both BBConnect and Exchange Push.

However that requirement is stored in the SIM card, so even if you change the required registry setting, on reboot it re-sets itself.

Enabling Multiple APN Support

I had to drop BBConnect for a 3rd party Exchange Push.

The only thing I have not been able to re-produce is the autoBCC that the BIS offers.

However, being able to type ahead my address book, able to do other things on the internet without losing my push email, and HTML email are reasons to move away from BBConnect at this time.
Actually it is a combination of device ROM and your carrier. Under the registry settings, normally one key exists, Contexts, and on most devices I saw it being set to 3. Then there is NetworkContexts key and like you said it comes from the SIM. I experienced it with 3 devices - Ubiquio 503g, Tytn II and Eten X800. All had Contexts and set to 3 without a SIM. Once I inserted my Rogers SIM, 503g and X800 still had only Contexts, whereas Tytn II has NetworkContexts as well. And device uses the lower number of the two keys. With NetworkContexts showing as 1, I wasn't able to connect simulataneously. However, if I can get the BBC4 working on either 503g or X800, it will be sweet, as the device ROM is not accessing the SIM to get the NetworkContexts, it will use the Contexts, which is 3. And with the same SIM on HTC Excalibur/S621 I was able to connect simultaneously, so I know carrier actually supports it.

The "whole bb software" wibbly is referring called "Blackberry Application Suite". It was supposed to be released fall 2007, but delayed to Q1 2008, still in beta testing, afaik.

Blackberry Connect will NOT allow ActiveSync to sync PIM information that it is syncing. So if you are syncing Calendar with BB, first you'll have to disable it in AS. Only thing you can concurrently sync is the mail account, as they create separate accounts in Pocket Outlook. For me I sync with BB, then leave also AS email, as I can search emails, receive HTML emails (we are using Exchange 2007) and save attachments. I set AS to sync manually, so I am missing sth in BB, I can do it via AS.

As for the battery life, I admit Windows Mobile Devices are far behind, but their functionality, available applications, etc is way ahead of Blackberry (for example you can't save attachments, or work easily on Office docs on BB - I know 4.1.5 BES will along with 4.3 OS will solve it, but still, Windows Mobile was able to do this from the beginning). All in all, my WM device lasts me through the day, and that's enough for me. Only thing I miss is sending PIN (as BBC4 don't allow sending PIN, only receiving).

If you guys need any BBC4 cab files, I have a collection at:

sems.org | Blackberry Connect 4.0 Downloads

I try to keep it up to date. Keep in mind, latest may not be the best, some devices work with older versions better.
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:12 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Hey Sems

I have used your site a few times, a thank you for your time and effort.

If BB could really put in a good effort on BBConnect 5 or their Application Suite I might switch back.

However, as you well know with Rogers, I am paying $100 for 200mb, but dropping BBConnect I can now switch to $65 for 1gig.

Even though I only use 100mb / month, I'm sure alot of that is BBCompressed...
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:18 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcohen999 View Post
Hey Sems

I have used your site a few times, a thank you for your time and effort.

If BB could really put in a good effort on BBConnect 5 or their Application Suite I might switch back.

However, as you well know with Rogers, I am paying $100 for 200mb, but dropping BBConnect I can now switch to $65 for 1gig.

Even though I only use 100mb / month, I'm sure alot of that is BBCompressed...
It is a crying shame that Rogers is charging like seven times more for Blackberry connectivity. For me, if I wasn't receiving PIN alerts from our operations team, I wouldn't be bothering with carrying a Blackberry unit. I am hopeful on the Blackberry App Suite as well, time will tell
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