BlackBerry Forums Support Community               

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-03-2008, 10:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
stranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: GTA
Model: 9000
OS: 4.6.0.190
Carrier: rogers(thiefs)
Posts: 160
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Blackberry vs the competition

Please Login to Remove!

I was wondering what do you guys honestly think of the future of blackberry. With the iPhone and its exchange, push email, 3G, enterprise capabilities and the release of the SDk for 3rd party apps. Sony ecrisson and its highly anticipated Xperia x1 and HTC diamond/rapheal releases coming soon. do you all think blackberry has the power to keep up with these guys. With the mobile browser the way it is, media player and generic product line will blackberry be able to stay competitive?
__________________
Finally Bold.
Follow me: http://twitter.com/davidpaulw
Offline  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
BBF Moderator
 
John Clark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Model: Z30
OS: 10.2.1.x
PIN: s & needles
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 34,687
Post Thanks: 4
Thanked 100 Times in 72 Posts
Default

That quote from NJBlackberry was regarding BB Connect. That was software for putting BB email on other devices. It doesn't really apply in this case.

As for BB competing....have you not seen any of the leaks the last few weeks? RIM is setting to launch some new devices by the end of the year and beginning of next year that will likely knock the socks off of the iPhone and others. It's a good time to be a BB user.
Offline  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
Crimson Tide Moderator
 
JSanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North of the moss line
Model: 9xx0
OS: 7.0sumtin
PIN: t low
Carrier: Verizon
Posts: 41,907
Post Thanks: 60
Thanked 244 Times in 182 Posts
Default

I think for all those reasons you have stated, the future of the tried and tested RIM BlackBerry and its network is more appealing than ever.

In other words--all the other choices and n00bies in the market, and BB is still working well why others on including Apple are still trying to figure it out.

Last edited by JSanders : 05-03-2008 at 10:25 PM.
Offline  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
EPIC MOD
 
ezrunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Virginia Beach
Model: ZED10
OS: DOS 3.1
PIN: INK STICK
Carrier: Tmobile
Posts: 12,214
Post Thanks: 9
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default

see my avatar
__________________
ZED 10
Offline  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
BBF Moderator
 
John Clark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Model: Z30
OS: 10.2.1.x
PIN: s & needles
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 34,687
Post Thanks: 4
Thanked 100 Times in 72 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezrunner View Post
see my avatar
pffffftttttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See mine!
Offline  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
BBFAQ Sysop
 
ricpac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philippines
Model: 9700
OS: X 10.6
PIN: Alt+Shift+H
Carrier: GLOBE
Posts: 3,760
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezrunner View Post
see my avatar
I can't read the note but it sure looks like an iPhone or one of those LG Voyagers (I'm not sure).
__________________
All your base are belong to us.
Offline  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
BBF Moderator
 
John Clark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Model: Z30
OS: 10.2.1.x
PIN: s & needles
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 34,687
Post Thanks: 4
Thanked 100 Times in 72 Posts
Default

He gave it it's very own thread:

http://www.blackberryforums.com/off-...e-up-hype.html
Offline  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
stranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: GTA
Model: 9000
OS: 4.6.0.190
Carrier: rogers(thiefs)
Posts: 160
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post
That quote from NJBlackberry was regarding BB Connect. That was software for putting BB email on other devices. It doesn't really apply in this case.

As for BB competing....have you not seen any of the leaks the last few weeks? RIM is setting to launch some new devices by the end of the year and beginning of next year that will likely knock the socks off of the iPhone and others. It's a good time to be a BB user.
The qoute is apart of my sig. not this particular topic. i just thought it was funny since i hate vista.

i have seen the kickstart which i think is a great device. as for the 9000 its just a updated curve nothing new or innovative. if there is something i have missed please let me know the patents they filed a while back is nothing we havent seen from HTC for years.

I'm just look aat what the iPhone has done for multimedia on a phone, albeit not a perfect, but steps forward. what SE does with the camera capabilities of there phones. HTC diamond and the iPhone with accelerometers that opens a new world what a phone is. I want to know what else is Blackberry doing beside email be cause it will take more than that to stay on top, atleast ithink it will.
__________________
Finally Bold.
Follow me: http://twitter.com/davidpaulw
Offline  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
BBF Moderator
 
John Clark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Model: Z30
OS: 10.2.1.x
PIN: s & needles
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 34,687
Post Thanks: 4
Thanked 100 Times in 72 Posts
Default

Ah, so it is...it's my birthday and I turned "old" today.
Offline  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
BBFAQ Sysop
 
ricpac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philippines
Model: 9700
OS: X 10.6
PIN: Alt+Shift+H
Carrier: GLOBE
Posts: 3,760
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post
Cool! Thank you!! I got it.
__________________
All your base are belong to us.
Offline  
Old 05-04-2008, 06:19 AM   #11 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
btushar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: India
Model: 9900
PIN: 27E9A046
Carrier: Vodafone
Posts: 61
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

As far as others are concerned BB is offering innovating services since 1999 and others are still just planning to lauch their services.

For corporates looks comes 2nd and security and features comes 1st. Also blackberry is a style statement which cannot be matched by any other company in near future.
__________________
Tushar
http://www.anjane.com - Blackberry PIN Exchange Service
Offline  
Old 05-05-2008, 09:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
CanuckBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: YYZ
Model: 9900
Carrier: Rogers
Posts: 1,183
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stranger View Post
I'm just look aat what the iPhone has done for multimedia on a phone, albeit not a perfect, but steps forward. what SE does with the camera capabilities of there phones. HTC diamond and the iPhone with accelerometers that opens a new world what a phone is. I want to know what else is Blackberry doing beside email be cause it will take more than that to stay on top, atleast ithink it will.
Personnaly, I couldn't care less if my phone plays music as well as my home entertainment system, or surfs the net better and faster than my notebook.

I want my e-mails quickly, reliably and secure. I want the phone to work. And the 'Berry does that extremely well.

What does it do besides e-mail? It's rock solid. It's secure. It allows extending a corporation's security standards to the handheld. For all those things, it's miles ahead of the competition.
Offline  
Old 05-05-2008, 10:41 AM   #13 (permalink)
BlackBerry Mensa
 
takeshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston
Model: 8310
Carrier: at&t
Posts: 7,741
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stranger View Post
do you all think blackberry has the power to keep up with these guys. With the mobile browser the way it is, media player and generic product line will blackberry be able to stay competitive?
I'm a wait and see person. So many "Blackberry killers" have come and gone over the years.

I think the flaw in your question is assuming that RIM isn't doing anything to develop updates and new products. The current generation of devices is definitely an improvement over the 87xx generation. I don't see why RIM would be resting on its laurels though.

Something that manufacturers and device geeks keep overlooking is that reliability is a necessity to "remain competitive" for those of us that truly rely on our devices. It's a bit different if your device is just a toy.

...and it's why I've stuck with BB over the years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stranger View Post
i have seen the kickstart which i think is a great device. as for the 9000 its just a updated curve nothing new or innovative. if there is something i have missed please let me know the patents they filed a while back is nothing we havent seen from HTC for years.
You know, people keep saying that "X is just a Y with Z" but that statement could be made regarding anything. I think anyone wondering about BB remaining competitive with devices like the iPhone out on the market misunderstands the niches in the market. It's faulty to even assume that a device needs to match the features of another device to remain competitive unless you're solely comparing spec sheets. With cars we refer to this as spec sheet racing and the problem is that you're only getting part of the story by comparing specs. Real world performance and usability matters most to a lot of people.

It's also a mistake, IMO, to attempt to fully assess an unreleased device based on photos. Can you really tell us that the Kickstart offers no improvements other than its form factor?

In any case, this sort of discussion pops up all the time. You'll find plenty of identical older threads. The only logical conclusion I can make is that RIM is intending to stay competitive. They're adding new features -- perhaps not at the pace that bleeding edge gadget geeks would prefer. I'm hoping, however, that this means that they understand that reliability is critical for a device like the BB.

Last edited by takeshi : 05-05-2008 at 10:57 AM.
Offline  
Old 05-05-2008, 11:09 AM   #14 (permalink)
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
Frank Castle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MA
Model: 9930
PIN: PM Me!
Carrier: VZW
Posts: 1,073
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Shouldn't this topic be reversed? The competition vs. Blackberry?

Apple fanboys fail to see the reason Blackberry has such adoption rate is due to the BES that controls everything. Mobility is an extension of the enterprise and BES allows me (having to control 2,000+ devices) the means to ensure security and policy is extend and across the mobile space. ** nothing ** comes close to what the BES can provide and ease to control.

I have an Iphone, I'm in the 2.0 beta and it's basically Windows Mobile 5 functionality with a slicker interface. All the things it does well, don't matter to the enterprise. Do I care if users have a better internet / media experience? The issue here is the convergence of lifestyle and business on mobile devices. Just like when the internet took off you have a lot of policy and understanding to get to a place where that line can be crossed AND seen as productive. From a media standpoint the newer Blackberry devices can do EVERYTHING the iphone can and more. I can always turn off functionality that complaince / HR don't want users to have.

Now if you want to go device to device it's a draw for me .. iphone is nice at what it does but I need a real keypad as my response rate using solely the iphone dropped by 45%. (Yes I gave adequate time to adjust to the virtual key entry) The Internet on Blackberry with Opera is pretty much on par with Iphone. Battery life on the Blackberry is still a big plus. Multiple carriers is a big plus. Apple has a ways to go but for a 1st gen device have made fantastic advances in getting people "excited" about mobility. They know how to market and having built in millions upon millions of ipod users didn't hurt.

I'd like to see the itunes requirement dropped, I am not about to deploy itunes to X number of desktops and have to manage yet another piece for iphone to work. In the year 2008 mobility is all about over the air.
Offline  
Old 05-05-2008, 12:02 PM   #15 (permalink)
No longer Registered.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Model: 8310
PIN: 2434CB8D
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 171
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I completely understand the notion of "not another BlackBerry killer." That same kind of thing happens with the iPod from Apple. So many iPod killers have come and gone that I often feel like just replying to anything with, "Get in line."

That being said, the Palm was once king, and Windows CE based devices overtook them. Made Palm look old and outdated.

I still content that the iPhone will do the same to the BlackBerry. I understand the argument of great email and security, but I think too much is made of the security part. The company I work for uses simple POP3/SMTP for mail. And a great many companies I have worked for, large and small, allow POP3 access. And that alone shows you that they will not at all be alarmed with iPhone, which can do POP3 and Exchange with ActiveSync which is much more secure than POP3. It might not be as secure as BlackBerry, but I would estimate that for the bulk of companies it's going to be good enough.

I also say email is better on the iPhone than the BlackBerry. Not faster, but closer to a desktop application. The attachments in my opinion are superior. PDFs and Excel files are much better. And that includes the use of 3rd party software such as RepliGo. I much prefer the email these days on the iPhone to what I had on the BlackBerry. True Push was all the BlackBerry has over the iPhone.

I also think the software coming in June is going to far out-class the software on the BlackBerry. And BlackBerry gets about 38% of its revenue from consumers who are using BIS anyway. I doubt email is as huge a sticking point to those users. And I bet the web, music, movies, audible books, camera, photos, etc are all going to become more appealing to them on the iPhone than on the BlackBerry.

I still own an 8800 and an 8310. And my employer was just asking me about the BlackBerry vs. the iPhone. I say, wait till June, and see what you think when the 2.0 software for the iPhone comes out before you decide. I was using the BB again this weekend to see if I truly missed it, or missed the software. Not at all. It "was" nice, but I think the iPhone is clearly the next generation. I don't think RIM is going to catch up at all. That 9000 is pretty weak in my opinion. Nothing more than a pretty face-lift on the same old technology. And I watched those on the Boy Genius Report going bananas for it. But as someone who is using the iPhone, and looking at that 9000 and comparing it to prior BlackBerry devices and the iPhone, I see nothing in that device that makes me want to return to the BlackBerry. Which doesn't look good for RIM. If their aim was to attract those attracted to the iPhone, which would be me, they have failed. And if this is the best the can do to fend off the iPhone, then I am more convinced they are going to lose marketshare to Apple's iPhone.

That being said, I think RIM will continue to rise. At least for another 3 to 6 months. I think it takes a while for anyone as large as RIM to lose anything. There is simply too many people who willing to say great things about the product for a long time to come. And that word of mouth will carry RIM for a good while. But in terms of technology, I think RIM is going to lose marketshare to Apple. Not any time soon, but perhaps 6 months from now. Which means you won't see it reported until about the 9th month. So perhaps around the start of 2009, I think you'll see this. I have been thinking a lot of a very long-term short of RIM's stock. Something that extends into 2010, because I think RIM is peaking now and will continue to rise, but I think things will be very different by 2010.

Right now, I see RIM giving away phones. And that will work for a while. And people will hold out for the 9000, and even another phone after that. But after they become convinced that RIM cannot compete with Apple's next generation, they will start to leave. All of that takes a long time. But I absolutely believe that the momentum will get started in June for Apple.

-Alex Alexzander
Offline  
Old 05-05-2008, 01:10 PM   #16 (permalink)
No longer Registered.
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NJ
Model: WP7
OS: The Best
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 1,930
Post Thanks: 6
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jletendre View Post
Shouldn't this topic be reversed? The competition vs. Blackberry?

Apple fanboys fail to see the reason Blackberry has such adoption rate is due to the BES that controls everything. Mobility is an extension of the enterprise and BES allows me (having to control 2,000+ devices) the means to ensure security and policy is extend and across the mobile space. ** nothing ** comes close to what the BES can provide and ease to control.
I hear a lot of how great BES is. My question is how many BB user actually use BES and how many simply use BIS.

You also have to remember that wide spread smart phone use is just starting to come into its own with many models to chose from. When BB came out there weren't as many choices, so it won be default. As more and more advanced smartphones come out, BB is beginning to look a little long in the tooth. Their early advantages are not what they once were. Some will say BB users are increasing in leaps and bounds. I say again that this is due to an over all increase in smartphone usage and not necessary due to BB technology. So fan boys aside, the iphone has seen impressive numbers considering how long it has been on the market.
Offline  
Old 05-05-2008, 01:16 PM   #17 (permalink)
No longer Registered.
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NJ
Model: WP7
OS: The Best
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 1,930
Post Thanks: 6
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Alexzander View Post
I completely understand the notion of "not another BlackBerry killer." That same kind of thing happens with the iPod from Apple. So many iPod killers have come and gone that I often feel like just replying to anything with, "Get in line."

That being said, the Palm was once king, and Windows CE based devices overtook them. Made Palm look old and outdated.

I still content that the iPhone will do the same to the BlackBerry. I understand the argument of great email and security, but I think too much is made of the security part. The company I work for uses simple POP3/SMTP for mail. And a great many companies I have worked for, large and small, allow POP3 access. And that alone shows you that they will not at all be alarmed with iPhone, which can do POP3 and Exchange with ActiveSync which is much more secure than POP3. It might not be as secure as BlackBerry, but I would estimate that for the bulk of companies it's going to be good enough.

I also say email is better on the iPhone than the BlackBerry. Not faster, but closer to a desktop application. The attachments in my opinion are superior. PDFs and Excel files are much better. And that includes the use of 3rd party software such as RepliGo. I much prefer the email these days on the iPhone to what I had on the BlackBerry. True Push was all the BlackBerry has over the iPhone.

I also think the software coming in June is going to far out-class the software on the BlackBerry. And BlackBerry gets about 38% of its revenue from consumers who are using BIS anyway. I doubt email is as huge a sticking point to those users. And I bet the web, music, movies, audible books, camera, photos, etc are all going to become more appealing to them on the iPhone than on the BlackBerry.

I still own an 8800 and an 8310. And my employer was just asking me about the BlackBerry vs. the iPhone. I say, wait till June, and see what you think when the 2.0 software for the iPhone comes out before you decide. I was using the BB again this weekend to see if I truly missed it, or missed the software. Not at all. It "was" nice, but I think the iPhone is clearly the next generation. I don't think RIM is going to catch up at all. That 9000 is pretty weak in my opinion. Nothing more than a pretty face-lift on the same old technology. And I watched those on the Boy Genius Report going bananas for it. But as someone who is using the iPhone, and looking at that 9000 and comparing it to prior BlackBerry devices and the iPhone, I see nothing in that device that makes me want to return to the BlackBerry. Which doesn't look good for RIM. If their aim was to attract those attracted to the iPhone, which would be me, they have failed. And if this is the best the can do to fend off the iPhone, then I am more convinced they are going to lose marketshare to Apple's iPhone.

That being said, I think RIM will continue to rise. At least for another 3 to 6 months. I think it takes a while for anyone as large as RIM to lose anything. There is simply too many people who willing to say great things about the product for a long time to come. And that word of mouth will carry RIM for a good while. But in terms of technology, I think RIM is going to lose marketshare to Apple. Not any time soon, but perhaps 6 months from now. Which means you won't see it reported until about the 9th month. So perhaps around the start of 2009, I think you'll see this. I have been thinking a lot of a very long-term short of RIM's stock. Something that extends into 2010, because I think RIM is peaking now and will continue to rise, but I think things will be very different by 2010.

Right now, I see RIM giving away phones. And that will work for a while. And people will hold out for the 9000, and even another phone after that. But after they become convinced that RIM cannot compete with Apple's next generation, they will start to leave. All of that takes a long time. But I absolutely believe that the momentum will get started in June for Apple.

-Alex Alexzander
Well said Alex. I agree with you. One has only to look to Palm to see what happens when you stay the course too long and fail to see where the market is heading.
Offline  
Old 05-05-2008, 02:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
Frank Castle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MA
Model: 9930
PIN: PM Me!
Carrier: VZW
Posts: 1,073
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Default

I wouldn't call Blackberry similar to Palm as they are constantly churning out new models, features etc. Palm did themselves in sticking with OS 3.5 for too long and not seeing the demand for a true wireless mobile device.

I think the core issue with this "debate" is you are talking about two totally different markets .. corporate world and general populace. No doubt mobility is going to see huge gains over the next 2 years and the mobile world changes at such a rapid pace I don't think you will ever see a dominate piece of hardware. Once the new networks light up (2010 timeframe LTE, HSPCA etc) who knows what type of devices will be out.

I think if you look at all the Fortune 500 companies that have mobile solutions and have a BES, they recognize it's value. I know a lot of people across different verticals and the verdict on Iphone is the same - "Wait and see, we have some to check out but it's not quite a Blackberry yet" We understand the coolness factor, we see the potential in new functional it brings etc .. I can't budget and plan on potential. If everyone is thinking OS 2.0 is going to be this huge shift and make the iphone that much better .. prepare to be letdown, blackberry enterprise intergation is heads above OS 2.0 I'm not even sure in it's current build if it will be ready for June.

I'm also wagering you will see a Blackberry Connect client for the Iphone by the end of the year. Apple Fanboys want so badly to say "we won, we're #1" that they are riding the iphone like crazy and will not accept less then that. The mobile world is dynamic and many factors come into play:

Device cost
Networks (realiablity, speed, coverage)
Ease of deployment, upgrading
Lifespan

The current Iphone will likely be dead by 2010 if not sooner, I'd wager they'd sell out the channel to favor the 3G version and then introduce another less cost model later this year with maybe 4gb storage (plenty for the average cell user)

At the end of all this your talking about two fairly large companies with a good asset base and both likely have a 2, 5, 10 year business model.
Offline  
Old 05-05-2008, 02:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
Talking BlackBerry Encyclopedia
 
doe4040's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: London, UK
Model: 8707v
OS: 4.2.2.186
PIN: 2503A700
Carrier: Vodafone UK
Posts: 262
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I was under the impression that RIM were the first to pioneer this idea of email on a mobile device?
So surely the argument would be that why should you replace something thats been the leader in the industry since the start. For example, why does everyone still buy a Ford?
__________________
"All of the things I enjoy are immoral, illegal, or fattening" - Oscar Wilde
"All of the things I enjoy have a Wife Approval Factor (WAF) of 0" - Me
Offline  
Old 05-05-2008, 02:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
No longer Registered.
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NJ
Model: WP7
OS: The Best
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 1,930
Post Thanks: 6
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

The current Iphone will likely be dead by 2010 if not sooner, I'd wager they'd sell out the channel to favor the 3G version

2010?? How about the moment the 3G unit is released.
Offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





Copyright 2004-2014 BlackBerryForums.com.
The names RIM and BlackBerry are registered Trademarks of BlackBerry Inc.