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Old 05-21-2008, 08:13 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stranger View Post
Previous two posts depict the difference in markets of the two phones precisely. People will get what they need, and i don't think i need all of that a blackberry offers. Plus the iPhone 2G will be much cheaper!
You're absolutely right. This always comes down to need. If you heavily rely on time sensitive email, there really isn't anything any smartphone can do that a BB can do much better. If you just want some smartphone features with a more consumer oriented bent, the iPhone is virtually perfect.

I fit more into the prosumer category myself - I need more productivity features, with some emphasis on multimedia/web browsing. Thus the Bold looks perfect.
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Old 05-21-2008, 10:23 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by plakius View Post
iPhone is exactly that .... A PHONE .... anyone who utilizes a blackberry will never downgrade from a powerhouse to a pretty toy ...... I shoot over 3,000 texts a month and who knows how many emails .... touch screen will never do ... and BB messenger ...need i say more ..... Blackberry proves through and through ..... yes iPhone will always dominate the market but at the same time how many dumb people do you meet in a day VS smart ones?..... i meet more jackasses than people who have a clue ..... therefore dumb people dominate the world ....
You talk about people having a clue. The fact that called the iphone a toy shows you don't have one. And by the way, stuffy PC types said the same thing about the Macintosh years ago and now they are selling better then PCs in some markets. But hey, its all about "Yea Team" no matter the facts.
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Old 05-22-2008, 12:16 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
You are 100% wrong.
Gotta love the super-arrogant ones who make such in-your-face blatant proclamations with absolutely nothing following to back it up whatsoever. (NOT)
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Old 05-22-2008, 01:39 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DallasFlier View Post
Gotta love the super-arrogant ones who make such in-your-face blatant proclamations with absolutely nothing following to back it up whatsoever. (NOT)
Just like you gotta love the super-arrogant BlackBerry fans that automatically talk about it like it is the best device ever, and then they go off and poke fun at iPhone users for doing the same thing... Hypocrisy much?

I challenge anyone to take 45 minutes out of their life and watch the iPhone SDK keynote presentation from back in March, and then come back with a straight face and say the iPhone won't present itself as another option to business users come June. Unlike the vast majority of you, I have always given the iPhone credit where it was due, but I USED to also be a member of the "iPhone will never make it in business camp." I then took the time to watch that presentation, and boy has my stance changed.

I still refuse to think that it will ever completely supplant BB, but I strongly believe it will become a super strong alternative for any company/business that doesn't need extreme security. I also think it will help to further drive WinMo's market share down, as well as contribute to the complete obliteration of Palm.

It's one thing to have legitimate complaints, like the keyboard for example. It is another thing entirely to rant and rave about things you have no idea about. The biggest of which is when people bash the iPhone for not having 3rd party apps. Guess what, they are coming in less than a couple of weeks, and from what I have seen so far, they will be some of the best mobile apps ever created.

There is plenty of room in the consumer world, as well as the business world, for both devices. Why the stupidly diehard fans on both side of the fence can't understand that is beyond me.

I will not doubt that the iPhone is severely lacking in certain departments right now, but that is going to change very soon. That said, instead of concentrating on what it can't do today, why not actually think about what it will do in a few weeks. Like Argon said earlier, RIM's first device was a two way pager, and it took them a LONG time to actually develop things that people weren't embarrassed to hold to their ear. The iPhone is Apple's FIRST entry into the world of cellular devices, and the fact that it is missing a few things is pretty understandable. Especially considering how strong it is despite what it is missing, and how quickly Apple is acting to make it better. Apple has improved it immensely in under a year, and it will get even better with firmware 2.0. With all do respect, it took RIM, what, 7-8 years to understand and actually start to develop devices that weren't centered around ONE type of user?

I love technology and try my best to keep an open mind about it. It wouldn't hurt some of you to do the same, rather than pledging undying allegiance to one device type, and one device type only. The same goes to iPhone fanboys and fanatics as well.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:27 AM   #45 (permalink)
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ALL these phones are marketed & targeted at different groups, yet ONLY the BlackBerry has the infrastructure & network support to go worldwide for consumers and corporate users here & abroad.

First a clarification on a post made by BryanHarig
Quote:
the best mobile web browsing anywhere
* Sorry you're wrong on this. I'm an cellphone crazy guru. Java support is lacking on the iPHone, and although they started the webkit browser movement & community, they are LACKING in its development and usage. Nokia's implementation of webkit will soon, if not already, have Flash Lite3 - to my knowledge the iPhone doesn't have FlashLite2 even. Many sites will render as this'll be part of the OS & also implemented into the webkit by Nokia on their S60 platform. (sorry to bring a non-topic platform into the discussion but its relevant for this post).

UNLESS! I'll express this vehemently too here. UNLESS Windows Mobile System Center Mobile Device Manager (where on EARTH was their marketing team on its naming) debuts & supports the iPhone for all the features it offers (MSCMDM) then the iphone will not take too many (significant numbers) BlackBerry users (Consumers most likely, some corporate users that are retiring, or no longer with the company nor going to another that uses BES/BB's) away from RIM.

This new Bold also offers a much coveted Divx Codec - which QuickTime on the desktop is supposed to support, as well as an OS X plugin, yet iPhone 2.0 doesn't even mention it (reports on the web).

RIM also has a better camera this time around, STILL with LED. I have yet to see iPhone users showing off pictures taken from the iphone (a HUGE miss on Apple's part). Also has anyone here ever tried to load a picture taken on their cellphone to FaceBook?!! Without having RIM's Facebook app on the blackberry its NOT EASY nor intuitive, EVEN on FaceBooks mobile site I cannot do it on my K850i and it takes GREAT photos versus the Curve/Pearl 2/iPhone. However, I'm more curious to see how this new camera on the Bold takes videos, looks like it'll be smoother and larger than what my K850i can take. THIS alone will move me from the SE multimedia phone.

My ONLY wish, my ONLY wish for this BOLD to have, or not is that VERISIGN implementation. I cannot STAND it! I want to be able to REMOVE IT! I had a BAD enough experience on the Pearl 8100 with a wired headset in the wind while trying to listen to music - something I LOVE to do with phones lately - that since I no longer needed the Pearl (training/learning) I dumped it in a hot minute! I didn't WANT to but that one issue alone was enough. NOTHING comes between me and my music, NOTHING not even my wife.

I think the BlackBerry marketshare will significantly increase. When users begin to try to input large amounts of data on the iPhone 3G, they'll realize that its much slower. Most will not even care because they're not phone geeks. Applications will still be much lower, but more consumer focused - this is where developers for RIM should focus on improving offerings, not just for corporate enhancements.

Xperia is beautiful! However, if SE cannot speed up the GUI interactions - faster than what the new HTC Diamond can do (its slow too) before launch this fall/winter; then users will consider HTC alternatives at a much cheaper price. Apps will be able to transfer over as BOTH are WMPro type units, the majority of WM sales.

SE has a GREAT nack for having THE BEST Java VM implementation - on the consumer space; I'm just hoping RIM uses MIDP 3.0 THEN we'll ALL be screaming for more RAM yet again ;) and for good reason as well. They've already approved its proposed implementations thus far.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:09 AM   #46 (permalink)
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For a phone crazy guru you are not very convincing.

So what you are saying is that at some point in the future s60 will have one feature the iPhone browser doesnt. So? My statement was, and is, completely correct. The iPhone has the best browser currently available.

You can bet that when Nokia does implement this new feature it will not be backwards compatable with older models the way improvements to mobile Safari will be. I believe you are refering the s60 feature pack 2, which nokia will not be supporting on older phones and isnt even supporting on some of their soon to be released phones like the E71.


You are also completely wrong with regards to your camera comments. The iPhone is the most popular camera phone on flickr right now: Flickr: Camera Finder . Beating the N95, beating all SE models. If you havnt seen iphone users showing off pictures then you havnt been looking.


What you and many other knowledgable people like you need to realize is that most people dont care about a 5mp camera or midip 4.9 whatever. They want good useful features that are easy to use and look nice.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:30 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I run a medium size buisness, I have a Curve and love it. Now spending up to $1000 for a phone is rediculous IMO, seriously what could that benifit from other than saying you spent a grand on a phone. I agree with the fasion statement but I guess im out dated. My curve does BASICLY everything that the iphone does or that i would use the iphone for. On the other hand I will be getting the BOLD when it comes out lol.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:34 AM   #48 (permalink)
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I think one issue for customers can be the service plan....

3G plan for iphone can be rather expensive (since AT&T here will try to set it as a higher standard compare to the 2.5G service plan). For all the features, music over WiFi make more 'economic' sense unless 3G is going to be an unlimited package, or the music over 3G is better priced. Otherwise, why am I not going to download the music faster at home or even at starbucks using WiFi (so there is no bandwidth charge)??

In terms of emails, 3G email does not seem to be 'better' in terms of experience.

Web browsing/Map/applications definitely need 3G. I have had WIN-Mobile phone (sony P1i), blackberry, iphone (all current generation) and the most usable browser seems to be the iphone one, BB/Win browser is OK, but just can't beat the iphone experience yet. BB TUNDER with touch screen can be a killer to iphone if it works right. However, Sony's camera is really really good... the P1i have a 3MPixel camera, and it is good enough to ditch my 7MPixel Nikon for everyday use. If the Sony X1 5MP phone is as good, it can be a big hit outside of US (where people just buy the phone outright unlocked, assuming it is not a $1000+ phone....).

Obviously, there are people who will get the phone they like regardless of the service plan. But looking over all the facts.... I have to guess BOLD/THUNDER from Blackberry on T-Mobile (in US market) will have higher volume of sales as original BB users update to it and normal 'phone' consumers will ease into it. The iphone follower will have to pay for the experience, but it is also setting a 'STATUS/ESTEEM/FASHION' of such ownership.

Just my $0.02

Last edited by andykwg : 05-22-2008 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:37 AM   #49 (permalink)
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I am stuck on which device I will get next, but since i'm developing software on the blackberry and iphone, I'll probably have both. I've played with the current iPhone and it is indeed a sleek device.

I believe both devices will do very well, with the iPhone doing better. Blackberry will probably continue to dominate the corporate market, but there are more consumers than corporate types, so pure numbers lean towards iPhone. Also you potentially have more users who are ready to upgrade their iPods, and what's a better device to upgrade to than an iPod + phone (iphone).

I also love the blackberry, and probably prefer it over the iPhone(keyboard vs touch), but people love aesthetics and "cool", and the iPhone (and Apple in general for that matter) has the ultimate formula for that right now.

Blackberry is a strong name that everyone recognizes, but even with the Thunder that appears to be aiming at the iPhone, the current hype of Apple and the super-strong brand of the iPod, and the soon to come third party apps built on the iPhone SDK is going to be hard to shake off.

Unlike the portable music device market, i feel the phone market is dynamic enough to have many market leaders.

As for the SE device, this is the first time i've heard of it(as well as others on this board) so it's obviously underhyped. The price won't help it, and even if it was cheap, i don't think it or many other smartphones could build the strong brands that RIM has built with the blackberry, and apple is doing with the iPhone.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:45 AM   #50 (permalink)
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PC vs. Mac, Console vs. PC, SUV vs. Hybrid, get my point? I'm tired of almost every post thats turning into this vs. that. Why are so many *****ing and complaining? The fact is, there are more choices each and every year that gives us more options to choose from. The iphone may be better suited for some than others, the BB may be better suited for some than others, same goes for WinMo and Symbian and so on. Its all about preference. I personally like that there are so many choices and that we're not stuck with just one platform regardless of superior some might think it is. Without competition, the industry would grow stale, so we SHOULD be happy that there are iphones, WinMo phones, Symbian and BB phones out there.

As much as I love Nextel phones, all of their phones look like its from the late 90's era. Moto was and is still the only OEM for them, so there's no competition and no incentive to produce better and more innovative products. Do you want your favorite brand to become like that? I don't think so. My point is, be happy with competition.
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Old 05-22-2008, 12:16 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outrigger View Post
PC vs. Mac, Console vs. PC, SUV vs. Hybrid, get my point? I'm tired of almost every post thats turning into this vs. that. Why are so many *****ing and complaining? The fact is, there are more choices each and every year that gives us more options to choose from. The iphone may be better suited for some than others, the BB may be better suited for some than others, same goes for WinMo and Symbian and so on. Its all about preference. I personally like that there are so many choices and that we're not stuck with just one platform regardless of superior some might think it is. Without competition, the industry would grow stale, so we SHOULD be happy that there are iphones, WinMo phones, Symbian and BB phones out there.

As much as I love Nextel phones, all of their phones look like its from the late 90's era. Moto was and is still the only OEM for them, so there's no competition and no incentive to produce better and more innovative products. Do you want your favorite brand to become like that? I don't think so. My point is, be happy with competition.


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Old 05-22-2008, 12:55 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by andykwg View Post
I think one issue for customers can be the service plan....

3G plan for iphone can be rather expensive (since AT&T here will try to set it as a higher standard compare to the 2.5G service plan). For all the features, music over WiFi make more 'economic' sense unless 3G is going to be an unlimited package, or the music over 3G is better priced. Otherwise, why am I not going to download the music faster at home or even at starbucks using WiFi (so there is no bandwidth charge)??

In terms of emails, 3G email does not seem to be 'better' in terms of experience.
What exactly are you talking about there? No pricing details have been released for the 3G iPhone, so for all we know, the data plan could remain at $20 a month. Not to mention, the cheapest of At&t BlackBerry plans is $30 a month, so even if the iPhone plan did increase, I can't see it going much higher than that. On the same token, what is to stop At&t from charging even more for the BlackBerry plan if it is used on the Bold due to its 3G?

I highly doubt the data plan will become much more expensive, if at all. Most WinMo phones are 3G, and all their data plans are $30. Unlimited MEdia Net for 3G flip phones is still like $15-20.

Also, the bandwidth it costs to download songs over the air on 3G isn't going to cost you extra if you have an unlimited plan. Rumors are circulating that the cost of the songs themselves may be higher, but that has nothing to do with the cost of your plan.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:19 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DacyJ View Post
I run a medium size buisness, I have a Curve and love it. Now spending up to $1000 for a phone is rediculous IMO, seriously what could that benifit from other than saying you spent a grand on a phone. I agree with the fasion statement but I guess im out dated. My curve does BASICLY everything that the iphone does or that i would use the iphone for. On the other hand I will be getting the BOLD when it comes out lol.
I hope you are talking about the BOLB when you say a grand for a phone, because thats what people are saying it will be without a contract from 800-1000. iPhone is no where near that price.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:23 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stranger View Post
I hope you are talking about the BOLB when you say a grand for a phone, because thats what people are saying it will be without a contract from 800-1000. iPhone is no where near that price.
Much more realistic figures have come down the pike for the Bold as well, and pricing is now rumored to be $300 with a 2 year contract. "IF" that turns out to be true, it will probably be $550-600 without a contract, which is closely inline with the estimated cost of the 3G iPhone. That said, I would imagine he is referring to the cost of the Xperia, not the iPhone.
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:56 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stranger View Post
I hope you are talking about the BOLB when you say a grand for a phone, because thats what people are saying it will be without a contract from 800-1000. iPhone is no where near that price.
The Bold is not going to be anywhere near $800-$1000 without a contract. That's just internet rumored nonsense.
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Old 05-22-2008, 09:27 PM   #56 (permalink)
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The real fun begins when IT depts go about setting up their IT policies on the iPhone2 or iP2. I am not sure what the abilities are for the iP2 to have any IT policies and if not then that would be a big issue for the Fortune 500 crowd. Next the remote wipe, it has to work and work well, again we have to wait and see on iP2 it may work, it may be buggy. The fact that Apple went to Microsoft to get a sync app and push mail technology means that Apple didn't have the talent in house to build it (I said in house not that Apple doesn't have talent). I have used many different WinMobile smartphones and so far the BB has done on thing I could not do with my WinMobile phones and doubt I can with the iP2. I am able to log into my BIS account and setup my work address to push my work mail to my BB 8820. I can read, reply and delete just as if I was at my desk. I do not have a BES license and I only needed my work mail, this save my company money and I am able to do more work.

I also really wanted an iPhone but in the end I chose what I felt could do the most for me. Personally the RIM vs iP2 threads are crap anyways. Each phone is great in its own way and has its own merits.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:26 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PPCMD View Post
The real fun begins when IT depts go about setting up their IT policies on the iPhone2 or iP2. I am not sure what the abilities are for the iP2 to have any IT policies and if not then that would be a big issue for the Fortune 500 crowd. Next the remote wipe, it has to work and work well, again we have to wait and see on iP2 it may work, it may be buggy. The fact that Apple went to Microsoft to get a sync app and push mail technology means that Apple didn't have the talent in house to build it (I said in house not that Apple doesn't have talent). I have used many different WinMobile smartphones and so far the BB has done on thing I could not do with my WinMobile phones and doubt I can with the iP2. I am able to log into my BIS account and setup my work address to push my work mail to my BB 8820. I can read, reply and delete just as if I was at my desk. I do not have a BES license and I only needed my work mail, this save my company money and I am able to do more work.

I also really wanted an iPhone but in the end I chose what I felt could do the most for me. Personally the RIM vs iP2 threads are crap anyways. Each phone is great in its own way and has its own merits.
Remote wipe seems to work fine, Apple demo'd it during the presentation of the iPhone SDK. Watch the video. I dont remember if they demo'd IT policies or not.
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:06 AM   #58 (permalink)
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The fact that Apple went to Microsoft to get a sync app and push mail technology means that Apple didn't have the talent in house to build it
Isn't Activesync a MS product? Apple didn't have to build it, they licensed it.
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:34 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
Isn't Activesync a MS product? Apple didn't have to build it, they licensed it.
Yes, ActiveSync is a MS app, and it is the one used with Exchange servers around the world. Apple didn't license it due to the inability to create something like it, but because they wanted the iPhone to be easily adoptable into existing corporate systems rather than creating a situation where corporations would have to go through the hassle of replacing what they already have.
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Old 05-23-2008, 03:55 PM   #60 (permalink)
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But if Exchange server is a MS product and MS products and software sucks soooo bad why is Apple licensing it? Sure it has a HUGE install base but still Apple touts MS as inferior and crap systems. So MS sucks but not exchange server that runs on MS OS based systems. WTF!
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