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Old 05-23-2008, 04:20 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PPCMD View Post
But if Exchange server is a MS product and MS products and software sucks soooo bad why is Apple licensing it? Sure it has a HUGE install base but still Apple touts MS as inferior and crap systems. So MS sucks but not exchange server that runs on MS OS based systems. WTF!
If you are a company trying to get your device into established corporations, what do you think is the smarter route...

1. Save the corporation money by licensing the software from MicroSoft needed to integrate with their existing setup?

or

2. Creating a new platform altogether that would cost the corporation large amounts of money to adopt?

It has nothing to do with inferiority, MS sucking, Apple ruling, or anything else. It simply has to do with appealing to the existing market by providing an alternative that could potentially offer a lower cost, and the familiarity of existing systems instead of the learning curve attached to new systems and the much higher cost of replacing the existing with new.

Licensing the existing tech is one of Apple's smartest moves in this play because you need to crawl before you can walk. It would be much smarter for Apple to break the door down and get inside using licensed technology FIRST while creating a newer and better system on the side. After establishing themselves as a real presence in the corporate market for mobile devices, they could then reveal that better system, and they would be more widely accepted. Banging on the door screaming for expensive change to your infrastructure is not the best way to position yourself for the eventual kill.

Last edited by CrazEtooN : 05-23-2008 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 05-23-2008, 05:35 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPCMD View Post
But if Exchange server is a MS product and MS products and software sucks soooo bad why is Apple licensing it? Sure it has a HUGE install base but still Apple touts MS as inferior and crap systems. So MS sucks but not exchange server that runs on MS OS based systems. WTF!
Because Exchange is the most popular enterprise email system, crap or not, its a fact.
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Old 05-24-2008, 04:07 PM   #63 (permalink)
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My point has nothing to do with MS Exchange ruling as the primary push mail technology in corporations. It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that Apple chose to get a MS product in the IPHONE when Apple spends a ton of cash bashing MS on a daily basis. That was my point along with the irony of it all.
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Old 05-24-2008, 04:53 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPCMD View Post
My point has nothing to do with MS Exchange ruling as the primary push mail technology in corporations. It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that Apple chose to get a MS product in the IPHONE when Apple spends a ton of cash bashing MS on a daily basis. That was my point along with the irony of it all.
And each new iteration of MS Windows seems to try and ape more and more aspects of OS X. It's not really ironic, it's just business as usual. Competitors try to ape the best aspects of each other, or at least those aspects that sell the best.

This entire obsession with home town teams vs. visitors where tech is concerned is so childish.
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:53 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPCMD View Post
My point has nothing to do with MS Exchange ruling as the primary push mail technology in corporations. It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that Apple chose to get a MS product in the IPHONE when Apple spends a ton of cash bashing MS on a daily basis. That was my point along with the irony of it all.
Dont believe the marketing. Apple makes ads poking fun at MS because they work, people are pissed off at how MS took their enormous lead in the market and used it to stick them with a turd like Vista. It isnt personal, it is business. MS is vulnerable so Apple exploits the weakness.

Jobs is a sane and rational person, he knows that Apple will not have a majority of the market at any time in the forseeable future. Thus their products must be able to interact seemlessly in a windows environment.

I dont think he would even want a majority, it is much more wise to sit back and take the high profit top of the market and let someone else cater to the low margin masses. Not only is it profitable, it lets Apple duck some of the tough issues MS has had to face in making an OS that is everything to everyone.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:13 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BryanHarig View Post
Dont believe the marketing. Apple makes ads poking fun at MS because they work, people are pissed off at how MS took their enormous lead in the market and used it to stick them with a turd like Vista. It isnt personal, it is business. MS is vulnerable so Apple exploits the weakness.

Jobs is a sane and rational person, he knows that Apple will not have a majority of the market at any time in the forseeable future. Thus their products must be able to interact seemlessly in a windows environment.

I dont think he would even want a majority, it is much more wise to sit back and take the high profit top of the market and let someone else cater to the low margin masses. Not only is it profitable, it lets Apple duck some of the tough issues MS has had to face in making an OS that is everything to everyone.
This post is absolutely spot on. Bravo!

One of the biggest misconceptions people have with the entire Mac vs. PC thing is that Jobs and co probably want no part of being "bigger" than MS. All they need to do is increase their own market share, which they do, and all is well in the Apple Kingdom.
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:28 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanHarig View Post
For a phone crazy guru you are not very convincing.

So what you are saying is that at some point in the future s60 will have one feature the iPhone browser doesnt. So? My statement was, and is, completely correct. The iPhone has the best browser currently available.
Sorry I'm not conceding to your point. Its not completely correct either. The "best" browser currently available in a mobile form is not Safari - it doesn't support flash lite - and a lacking feature such as this doesn't make it the best. Sorry there are HUGE differences in Safari in Mac OS X and in the mobile browser, regardless of its touch capabilities or marketing by Apple that you've falling to succumb. Flash is being heavily used on websites, an thus far Apple has been slow to update the mobile Safari in the iPhone.

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You can bet that when Nokia does implement this new feature it will not be backwards compatable with older models the way improvements to mobile Safari will be. I believe you are refering the s60 feature pack 2, which nokia will not be supporting on older phones and isnt even supporting on some of their soon to be released phones like the E71.
Nokia's lack to implement features on phones older than 6mths is marketing, not incapability in the same platform. You really need to begin venturing to other findings in other forums for other platforms to see what is/is not backwards compatible on S60 3rd Edition FP1. FP2 on S60 is delayed also on the E71 and on the upcoming E66 - sure they were rumored to feature it but no soft key middle button - offering a different function than a center-select key on a D-Pad. is not on recent beta-prototype production shots.


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Originally Posted by BryanHarig View Post
You are also completely wrong with regards to your camera comments. The iPhone is the most popular camera phone on flickr right now: Flickr: Camera Finder . Beating the N95, beating all SE models. If you havnt seen iphone users showing off pictures then you havnt been looking.
Sorry again. Being the most "popular" phone taking photos on a blog (for 1 yr? No timeline represented in that link) doesn't make it the best, or show that it lacks. What those specs do NOT show is how users are taken photos - range, quality, locations. This would just be too time consuming. Just remember who started the 'quality' mobile phone picture craze ... SE K750i/S700i. Sure you may feel that iPhone users just need easy pictures of close range. Then again, not eveyone falls into that category. Some of us don't wish to pretend to be batman carrying multiple devices seperately to enjoy features.

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What you and many other knowledgable people like you need to realize is that most people dont care about a 5mp camera or midip 4.9 whatever. They want good useful features that are easy to use and look nice.
Really? I wonder what the total worldwide sales of the N95 vs all iPhone versions - and I'd be willing to limit the sales of the N95-2/3/4 from that (only the original N95).

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Originally Posted by PPCMD View Post
But if Exchange server is a MS product and MS products and software sucks soooo bad why is Apple licensing it? Sure it has a HUGE install base but still Apple touts MS as inferior and crap systems. So MS sucks but not exchange server that runs on MS OS based systems. WTF!
Apple has NEVER stated nor publisized that MS is inferior or crap systems. THey've done so ONLY on the OS, or how their office products lack cohesiveness - ie Lemons commercial in the 80's. Just remember, MS Office first debuted on the MacIntosh 2yrs before Windows. Until Office 2003 EVERY version on the Mac had more features for functions not available on Windows - save issues with connecting to MS Exchange compatibility in Entourage. But thats off topic.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:07 PM   #68 (permalink)
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I think we might add the Nokia E71 to the comparison. I for one am intrigued by the Nokia and am leaning towards that. As a T-Mobile user I'm also interested in the talk of an AWS-supporting model of the E71.

Boy Genius E71 Video Walkthrough

The Palm Treo 850 (Windows Mobile) is another contender, but there is no certainty that Palm will last until they can release it. It's been a while since Palm did anything right and I have little faith in them at this point, but it's worth remembering that they started the whole convergence thing between phone and PDA. They had a great concept and were first to put out a decent working model, but they failed to innovate and got surpassed long ago. If they don't do something tragically stupid, like fail to include adequate internal memory for the OS, this 850 could be their comeback device. And it would be a hell of a platform for Android.

Last edited by rambo47 : 05-29-2008 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:11 PM   #69 (permalink)
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I agree with the e71, it looks like a very good device and a serious contender. It would only make sense for Nokia to pull together a great smartphone, they certainly have the means to do it.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:16 PM   #70 (permalink)
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I'm look ing forward to seeing more on the Nokia E71 as well, I have decided that the Xperia and the iPhone 2 are both off my list as my next possible phone, mainly because I've had slide out keypads and just not looking forward to having another one, and even though the non-physical keypad of the iPhone is nice, it makes it hard to use without looking. I'm sure all 4 phones will be very sharp, but for me its the E71 or the Bold, and really leaning towards the E71 right now, at least for today.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:08 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagga View Post
Sorry I'm not conceding to your point. Its not completely correct either. The "best" browser currently available in a mobile form is not Safari - it doesn't support flash lite - and a lacking feature such as this doesn't make it the best. Sorry there are HUGE differences in Safari in Mac OS X and in the mobile browser, regardless of its touch capabilities or marketing by Apple that you've falling to succumb. Flash is being heavily used on websites, an thus far Apple has been slow to update the mobile Safari in the iPhone.


I am happy to agree that the S60 browser and the iPhone browser are the 2 best on the market. They share much of the same base and they are head and shoulders above the competition. I dont think that a single feature like Flash lite is enough to make up for Mobile Safari's faster rendering speeds and touch integration.



Nokia's lack to implement features on phones older than 6mths is marketing, not incapability in the same platform. You really need to begin venturing to other findings in other forums for other platforms to see what is/is not backwards compatible on S60 3rd Edition FP1. FP2 on S60 is delayed also on the E71 and on the upcoming E66 - sure they were rumored to feature it but no soft key middle button - offering a different function than a center-select key on a D-Pad. is not on recent beta-prototype production shots.


About the only thing worse then Nokia's US warranty service is their track record of releasing software updates and new products when they say they will. I will believe it when I see it.

Apple has already, in the short time their phone was available, proven willing to release frequent updates.



Sorry again. Being the most "popular" phone taking photos on a blog (for 1 yr? No timeline represented in that link) doesn't make it the best, or show that it lacks. What those specs do NOT show is how users are taken photos - range, quality, locations. This would just be too time consuming. Just remember who started the 'quality' mobile phone picture craze ... SE K750i/S700i. Sure you may feel that iPhone users just need easy pictures of close range. Then again, not eveyone falls into that category. Some of us don't wish to pretend to be batman carrying multiple devices seperately to enjoy features.


Flicker isn't 'some blog', AFAIK it is the largest photo sharing website in the world. For all their 'starting the mobile picture craze' sony sure has failed to turn that into a profitable mobile phone business. While I agree better picture quality is desirable apparently consumers dont want it enough to make Sony Ericsson's phone business profitable.


Really? I wonder what the total worldwide sales of the N95 vs all iPhone versions - and I'd be willing to limit the sales of the N95-2/3/4 from that (only the original N95).


While I would be interested to know that as well, I dont think it would be a fair comparison as the N95 had a world wide launch and was available 3-4 months before the iPhone.


...
I am also interested in the E71 (provided a 3g version for T-Mobile is available). However its lack of a 3.5mm headphone jack and its low resolution screen are making me lean more towards the Blackberry 9000 with T-Mobile 3g or the iPhone (assuming it is nice enough to make me forget 3g).
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Old 05-30-2008, 11:51 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagga View Post
Apple has NEVER stated nor publisized that MS is inferior or crap systems. THey've done so ONLY on the OS, or how their office products lack cohesiveness - ie Lemons commercial in the 80's. Just remember, MS Office first debuted on the MacIntosh 2yrs before Windows. Until Office 2003 EVERY version on the Mac had more features for functions not available on Windows - save issues with connecting to MS Exchange compatibility in Entourage. But thats off topic.
Apple has not openly said it but they certainly imply it and so it is there. Apple hardware is made by the same mfg's as the WinOS hardware. The difference is Apple builds one spec, holds that line until they want an upgrade, and roll it into the unit. MS has to support endless hardware choices with crappy drivers written by those companies. They cannot lock down and control it all as Apple does. Mind you I still have a $3500 MBP that at times does the kernel panic (IE crashes), I get the grey screen of death where it tells me to power cycle. I love my MAC's and that is not the point, what is the point is the tone, inflection and message in the Apple ads. How great they are, how secure they are. Well they are getting sloppy and their security weaknesses are starting to show.

So technically you may be right but so am I.
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Old 07-27-2008, 05:10 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Don't mind me for not reading every single post, I just wanted to give my input. Being honest the iPhone will of course be the best market wise, but I shall never get one, I hate Apple, and all of Apple's fan boys, but everyone follows a fad, and this one is a very fancy one that will probably last a long time.

The Bold, is well Bold... people do want it, I have heard iPhone haters talk about getting this phone, I think this phone will be the 2nd choice smart phone for people that aren't really into the iPhone type thing.

Xperia X1, this phone... well I personally have been following it since rumors were first floating about, and when the only shape we knew it by was something with touch screen and a keyboard, now that SE has put a picture, I want it even more. Yes, I know the price is a little steep... but I don't know what makes me still want it... even more than the Bold.

I guess I like to be a little different, I bought the 8100 thinking I would be alone, now I look everywhere and everyone has a 8100, although they don't know how to add applications and all that jazz, and my 8100 is superior, I still don't like seeing it everywhere. Now, I'll always be a BlackBerry supporter, but I think it's time for me to move onto something, experiment, and hopefully I won't see everyone having the same phone as I do... I want the X1... I'll probably pay as much as 800 for it too.
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Old 07-27-2008, 09:21 AM   #74 (permalink)
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I hate Apple, and all of Apple's fan boys
Tell us how you really feel.
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:37 AM   #75 (permalink)
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I'm missing this iphone as a fashion accessory angle. If anything I see way less iphones being slung in gun holsters to show off to the public (one) then other devices. People seem to like to show off their BB's more then their iphones.

The people I know with the iphones/itouch are all about the apps. They're all app crazy, lifestyle and business apps.

The folks I know with BB tend to have gotten them from their companies.
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:43 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Tell us how you really feel.
I'll never wrap my head around the haterz.
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