two different devices I'm afraid.

Power user = Bold

Media device with web/phone = Iphone

with all due respect this is a common misconception.

I can do a lot of things that qualify as power user with both phones.

IMO the keyboard is a push. Having used just about all if them I can type pretty dern fast on any. Where keys may be too close on an 88xx for some keyboard lag at times on the iPhone can be a PITA.

fiancé has 8830 but I have been away from BB 8800 for a bit.

question (serious, not trying to be facetious)

can BB have multiple browser windows open at the same time?

with 3G in the mix (not to mention all ya'll power-users), user-accessible battery is a plus for BB Bold.

4-5 hours of Internet usage drop kicks the iPhone where it hurts.

I wouldn't say that.

iPhone
Internet use:
Up to 5 hours on 3G
Up to 6 hours on Wi-Fi

I would.

Say what they want. I have been using an iPhone for a year and will believe better battery life out of a 3G device when I see it. As an employee of ATT Mobility I appreciate your confidence but will need to see it in action.

4 hours of Internet on EDGE gets me a battery warning and this is not out if the ordinary from all the people I know using iPhones.

Let's say you do get this battery life during an average day....

At 5-6 hours you are looking for a plug-in with your proprietary charger.

...a BB owner can just pop in a backup battery.

This is actually a concern for me as I plan to live-post to a fan website during gamedays this year and will not have easy access to a charger while roaming tailgate parties and in the stadium.

An important thing to remember is that those are gauged times for USE. You need to be physically browsing the web for 5 hours, physically making calls for 8 hours, etc.

If you mix the web, calls, mail, texts, media, etc; and spread it out through the day, the vast majority don't actually commit to 5 hours of real USE by the time they go to bed. I can't even see a power user truly pushing 5-6 hours of mixed use in an 8-5 workday.

I am not saying you are doing this Dawgfan, but many people mix up the claimed usage time with the phone just being on, and their opinions are greatly skewed by it.

You are right.

Assuming I leave the house with a full charge my iPhone could need some juice by my commute home.

I rarely use the iPod functionality.
I hate talking on a phone.
My usage is mainly email & Internet.

On days when I am busy and can't feed my Twitter/Google Reader addiction I could have 30-40% juice left by dark.

On days when I listen to a podcast at lunch, stay caught up on RSS feeds and Twitter I could be charging on the way home.

Heavy email IMO would mimic internet impact on battery life.

I think a real power-user (truly utilizing most of a devices features..& often) using voice, BT, Internet, email, etc could need a charge not long after lunch possibly.

I must note that it is possible that native apps (iPhone firmware 2.0) could possibly help with battery life if they reduce Internet usage and those apps are less drain on the battery.

Just thoughts.

FYI
today. was hung over so no talking really. iPhone fully charged when I woke up from afternoon nap at 6ish

Usage stats show 4.5 hours of usage. Almost all if this has been on internet as mostly wi-fi. Basically just reading stuff and posting here and there.

Just got 20% low battery warning.

If I were to do what I plan/want to do on gamedays I would be in trouble as we start early.

If you can't tell I am really torn as I love the BB & the iPhone.

If you have 4.5 hours of real, actual usage on pretty much any phone you are going to be pretty low though. BlackBerry included.

Instead of getting a replaceable battery (which you can't), you could look into an iPhone juice pack that pretty much does the same thing.

just checked out Juice Pack. I appreciate the tip but for me $100 is a bit steep for backup battery power.

Yeah, the Juice Pack is expensive. There are other, cheaper styles from other companies that do the same thing. They just aren't as streamlined to fit the back of the device in a "pretty" fashion like the Juice Pack.

Plus it uses a LiPo battery (Lithium Polymer) which in itself is literally an explosive device if not handled properly. I fly R/C helicopters and those batteries are notorius for causing fires. They are fantastic batteries but highly explosive and flammable if not properly cared for (they can't be shipped by anything but ground methods). I keep mine in a fireproof safe when charging.

YouTube - Lithium Polymer Battery Explosion's (liposack)

hehe explosive battery in your pocket. loads of fun

Where did you get this information? None of the reviews I read of it, nor their site itself, says it uses that type of battery.

I am not saying you are wrong, but it would be nice to see it listed somewhere as that sounds like a dangerous battery.

Ummm, did you go to their website?
mophie - iPhone Battery, iPod Cases, iPhone accessories and more! - Juice Pack - iPhone

Read this:
http://thunderpowerrc.com/PDF/THPSafetyWarnings.pdf
and this:
lipOLY wARNING

There are hundreds others like it.

Holy lord... I read right over it and didn't see it. My fault.

Let me also state that AT&T has changed a lot of the prices on their data plans for the iPhone, and I seriously suggest that any user that inks that 2 year contract have a complete understanding of the data plans. People on one the popular iPhone forums that are just now figuring out the pricing difference are up in arms about it.

Make sure you can afford those monthly payments before you sign the contract.

Ummmm ... NOW its exactly like the other PDA phones on AT&T. No higher. I fail to see why people tend to say Apple is ripping you off by giving you a more expensive plan, when now it is the same price as a standard PDA data plan. You people are making it seem more complicated than it really is. Look at what you are paying for your BlackBerry BIS account for christ sake.

You people? I think you need to calm down. If I am not mistaken, you were one of the few pushing how if you did not get the Bold by such and such date, that you were going to jump on the iPhone boat.

I was merely pointing out that people should get all the information before they sign that contract. A great many people are under the assumption that if they upgrade their current iPhone to the 3G model, that the pricing structure will remain unchanged, and that basically, they are getting the phone for 199. I think ATT should, in great detail, explain the price differences to these people as I would hate for anyone to sign a contract, and then get hit with surprises. It's happened before. The Blackberry plans are spelled out to the letter, but from what I have observed, people have all kinds of questions about the iPhone plans. Others are having to step up, and word the plans a little bit more clearly so that the majority understand, and as I pointed out in my previous post, when they finally get the changes, people are then weighing that in to the decision of if they plan to upgrade, or keep their current iPhone.

Now where your attitude, and your "people" comment came from; I suggest you stick to the facts, and stop trying to point fingers. IMO, and iPhone threat really has no place here anyway. If you want to purchase an iPhone, that is your decision, but you really should not try to justify your decision, by posting that the Bold is going to be delayed, and the iPhone can do all this, so your probably gonna be on that boat with the rest of the people. Keep your personal feelings out of the thread.

I would say the community is creating more confusion about the iPhone plans than AT&T. When you go to buy the iPhone and add the data plan it will be specifically stated what is and is not inlcuded. It is the people on the forums and interwebs who have been guessing that have created more of the confusion IMO.

..and numetheus is correct in that the iPhone plans are at more of a parity with other smartphone data plans from AT&T. Anyone paying $20 for 200 text and unlimited data knew they were getting a deal compared to WM or RIM phones. I was using a BB and when I went to the iPhone was shocked that my data plan (with equal text messages) was so much cheaper, especially when I considered how much more data usage I could drive on the iPhone.

...and an iPhone vs Bold comparison/discussion seems perfectly reasonable IMO. There are hardcore BB users who are considering both now and this discussion could be helpful to them. If "iPhone vs Bold" isn't something one is concerned with then I don't understand why they would be on page 6 of a discussion specifically related to it.

From The Unofficial Apple Weblog on why you shouldn't buy the new 3G iPhone:

Time is a funny thing. A few weeks ago, eBay and Google were flooded with pricy first-gen iPhones starting at about $400 and people were snapping them up like crazy. Now, the same auction sites are showing dozens of listings from just $200 for 8GB iPhones.
The iPhone, as you will remember, debuted last year at $499 for a 4GB model and $599 for 8GB. Then there was the price drop, the $100 store credit and the introduction of the iPod touch. Soon after, the refurb units appeared at a slight discount, and then a bigger discount and then by March they were retailing $250 for the refurb 8GB model. Late adopters got great bargains by any stretch of the imagination, particularly those who mixed unlocking with creative data plan purchases.

Now it's time for the iPhone 3G to appear and by every stretch of the imagination, it's horribly priced--as is every other subsidized smart-phone out there. Unless you live in the Netherlands, the rate plans range from bad to unspeakable. If you're in Scandinavia or New Zealand, our hearts go out to you.

From a price perspective, the cheapest way to use the phone is to buy it outright, unlock it and use it with inexpensive calling plans. Data plans, particularly, work best when you don't have to mortgage your children to afford to visit a few websites.

Using the iPhone outside the sanctioned plans involves giving up visual voice mail but otherwise it works pretty smoothly. It also involves running unfamiliar possibly scary software and taking risks with your unit that many iPhone users would prefer to avoid. Thus there exists the always growing market of third party unlocking and resales.

The iPhone dev team hints that they're ready to deliver unlocking and jailbreak tools as soon as Apple releases 2.0. Theoretically, you'll be able to use your current iPhone SIM and data plan (whether licit or less licit) with the new iPhone 3G. Obviously no one has been able to test or confirm this yet outside the dev team, which remains tightlipped.

In the US, AT&T is offering a "commitment-free" 3G iPhone for just $599. It's still locked to the network, and we're told you still need to activate it with AT&T before it can be used. Similar overpriced "commitment free" units will go on sale in Italy and a few other countries as well. You should be able to activate and then tell your carrier goodbye if I'm reading the terms correctly. I am not a lawyer.

So here's the question: do you want to pay the early adopter tax in order to play with shiny new iPhone? For US customers, the question reverts to bandwidth. If you can afford it, the new iPhone delivers 3G speeds. You won't have to call out for pizza as you wait for a website to load. But if you have the flexibility to wait, you can buy a better cheaper unit soon.

Other than 3G speeds and GPS, the new iPhone does not bring a lot to the table. It still has the same crappy 2 MegaPixel camera. It appears to have the same sized screen, the same speakers, the same microphone with a few cosmetic re-designs. If the speed issue isn't do-or-die for you, this is the upgrade to skip. You'll pay a lot of money for little more than a design bump.

Frankly, Apple would be foolish if they didn't have a better iPhone already in the works--one with a decent camera and other upgraded features. The 3G iPhone that goes on sale Friday, represents nothing more than last year's iPhone--that finally got delivered a year late.

Why you shouldn't buy the iPhone 3G on Friday - The Unofficial Apple Weblog (TUAW)

As a current iPhone user, I can't argue with a single thing in here.

well they have stated it has different speakers (louder / clearer) and microphone. so add that to the GPS and 3G.

I personally will sell my current iphone and use that to pay for the new one and the me.com account. But i will wait a few weeks before making the move.

to me the 2.0 software / App store is the best thing coming from Apple.

Bold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's just it as far as I'm concerned - it's all about the App Store. 3G doesn't mean anything to me, I have access to WiFi virtually everywhere, and where I don't EDGE is fairly fast in this area. The App Store, however, is the only thing that might be a deal breaker as far as my intention to switch to a Bold.

Wirelessly posted

Ya. RIM really needs to do something about the software economy. The software already announced for iPhone look lightyears ahead of anything on the BB right now. People are going to want to buy iPhone apps more than BB ones. To me, I find it hard to plunk money down on most BB apps because they all look like throwbacks from the 80s. Eoffice is the most pathetic looking excuse for an expenive app I have seen, but people buy it because its really the only choice. And yes, interface DOES matter to most people in these modern times. Cheezy 80s era throwback looking BB apps that cost money are a hard pill to swallow.

This is the best thing i have hear all day. I love my berry but the apps are soooooooooo early 80's lmao

Wirelessly posted

I've actually talked to someone who bashed PalmOS because it looked outdated and all the apps were the same. Then he gets a txt and pulls out his BB. I just laughed and was like WTF!? Lol. I love my BB but ya, BB and PalmOS are two platforms that have not changed much.

I still laugh at cheezy eOffice because it looks just like something from an Apple Newton. High tech stuff I tell ya.

The apps for iPhone is going to be my biggest reason to dump BB all together. I left the 80s along with my mullet.

As I said before I will probably try the iphone to see if I like it or not (presuming that ATT still will have the 30 day grace period with this phone). If not, I will wait on the Bold.

The biggest advantage for me is the app dev studio you can download (for free). I have downloaded this and started experimenting with it. Apple makes it very simple to write your own programs now. I know for most that will not be a big deal but for those of use who like to experiment it is quite a carrot to dangle. For me it is about simplifying paper work, I am a serviceman and do a ton of service reports. I wrote a small program that will look at the notes I made on the iphone, login to our nucleus reporting system at work, automatically enter the data in a service report then logout. Keeps me from the manual work I now do once I enter data in my pearl. The problem is I have to wait on the iphone to test it
Tg

Yeah my friend showed me the latest SDK on his macbook. That thing is absolutely amazing. With just a few clicks he was able to create his interface that INSTANTLY looked better than anything I have ever seen on a BlackBerry. That right there .... is why there will be twice the high quality software for iPhone than there will be for BlackBerry, even though BlackBerry has been around for so much longer.

RIM is screwing up big time. Instead of putting its development effort into improving their software development platform, they are making tons of useless devices. Improve the software economy and its like a huge PR boost. Keeping it in the dark ages like it is now is going to hurt them in the long run ... I don't care how good they make their devices.

Check this out: Just some of the initial offerings from the Apple conference: Video roundup: New apps coming to the iPhone | Tech news blog - CNET News.com

Software light years beyond what blackberry will ever have until they improve their development platform. And yes ... if it sounds like I have made up my mind, I have. I will probably not be getting the Bold ALSO like I initially planned. Jesusphone 3G here I come!

Yeah the lady of the house wont let me get an iphone and i hate ATT so i will be getting apps for my ipod touch.

That MLB.com APP looks very nice!! I hope they come out with an NFL one.

Yep. I gotta say that I'm with ya this Friday. I've been on the Blackberry/Iphone 3G fence for awhile and the new Apps have caused me to make my mind. Still love my 8820 and will more than likely miss the Blackberry platform, but I'm at least gonna try. We shall see.

I like the new software ideas for the iPhone. What bothers me is that there's no Java/ActiveX support for websites. I wonder how many sites will not be able to be used with it (I don't think the new one is any better). I like to MMS and I don't think they added that either. I always thought that the 3G device should have been out last year, that the price was outragous. And I was right. Now the 3G sells for 40% of the original. True, they bumped the data price 50% but hey, they gotta make a living too!

Are you kidding me? Javascript works on the iPhone. I can tell you right now that Java apps work on it. They have tons of web games you can play in mobile safari! As far as ActiveX ... who cares? Lots of web sites don't use it anymore. Browsers like Firefox or Opera don't do ActiveX for good reason. I have not touched Internet Explorer in a few years except for Windows Update so ActiveX is a non-issue. If you use Firefox like lots of people instead of IE, then you don't care about ActiveX either.

Lots of people complained there is no voice dialing, but Fonix has announced a 3rd party app that gives it voice dialing, so people can now shup up about that one. MMS can be added via software.

How long will it take someone to figure out a work around for copy/paste?
Tg