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Old 07-16-2008, 01:56 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Safari is a great browser, now question about it. There are third party apps in development that will use WebKit for the BlackBerry. Its going to be a bit before this is released, but it is in the works. As for media, you are absolutely correct. Apple and their iPods are king in that world, and the iPhone is just an extension of that. Medical Apps? Nearly every hospital in the Washington DC/Baltimore area uses BlackBerry's exclusively. They provide the custom apps to their Drs via the BES.

By the way, as of yesterday/today sometime the iPhone was jailbroken, the OS hacked. 4 days or so from release. Security is a concern for individuals much less than businesses. But why, as an IT professional, would I want to deply ANY iPhones in an environment where you need any shred of security? The 9000 will be a HUGE step forward for RIM. Faster processor than the iPhone. Better screen than the iPhone. More memory than the iPhone. Better battery life with push email. Most importantly, the most secure mobile device on the market. Apple will outsell RIM in the consumer market. There is no question in my mind. It will be closer than most people will predict I am sure. But business, Apple will make very little headway there. There just is not enough there for it to sway the IT professionals.
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:12 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sith_Apprentice View Post
Safari is a great browser, now question about it. There are third party apps in development that will use WebKit for the BlackBerry. Its going to be a bit before this is released, but it is in the works. As for media, you are absolutely correct. Apple and their iPods are king in that world, and the iPhone is just an extension of that. Medical Apps? Nearly every hospital in the Washington DC/Baltimore area uses BlackBerry's exclusively. They provide the custom apps to their Drs via the BES.

By the way, as of yesterday/today sometime the iPhone was jailbroken, the OS hacked. 4 days or so from release. Security is a concern for individuals much less than businesses. But why, as an IT professional, would I want to deply ANY iPhones in an environment where you need any shred of security? The 9000 will be a HUGE step forward for RIM. Faster processor than the iPhone. Better screen than the iPhone. More memory than the iPhone. Better battery life with push email. Most importantly, the most secure mobile device on the market. Apple will outsell RIM in the consumer market. There is no question in my mind. It will be closer than most people will predict I am sure. But business, Apple will make very little headway there. There just is not enough there for it to sway the IT professionals.
Take a look at netters anatomy and epocrates for iPhone and tell me the BB versions match up. Netters allows full zooming through the body with multitouch and get information cards for body parts and structures very quickly. Nothing comparable on the BB. Epocrates for iPhone kills the apps available in BB just because of its interface. As far as the other business apps go I have to disagree. I see a lot of headway being made in the business sector. 3rd party apps just started. SalesForce, a leading CRM software developer, made their best version for the iPhone leaving the BB version behind. That is just one very early example of good business software going to the Apple platform. Oracle is another example of big business writing iPhone apps. Business sector for iPhone will only get better ... it just started.

The faster process means absolutely nothing with an OS that is not optimized. SURE the hardware is fast, but reviews still say you get hourglass icons. Why? Because its the same aged software. On the iPhone even though the processor is slower we get absolutely no delays and everything is snappy. Why? The OS is more efficient. I seriously doubt anyone will make good 3D apps for the Bold because the OS just is not up to snuff. The OS is what is hampering the device. Faster hardware specs just help the handicap.
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:16 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith_Apprentice View Post
By the way, as of yesterday/today sometime the iPhone was jailbroken, the OS hacked. 4 days or so from release. Security is a concern for individuals much less than businesses. But why, as an IT professional, would I want to deply ANY iPhones in an environment where you need any shred of security? The 9000 will be a HUGE step forward for RIM. Faster processor than the iPhone. Better screen than the iPhone. More memory than the iPhone. Better battery life with push email. Most importantly, the most secure mobile device on the market. Apple will outsell RIM in the consumer market. There is no question in my mind. It will be closer than most people will predict I am sure. But business, Apple will make very little headway there. There just is not enough there for it to sway the IT professionals.
Consumers do not look at and think about how easy this device can be jailbroken. Keep in mind I use my iphone for personal use and BlackBerry for work related stuff. So when I argue for iPhone it is in the consumer realm where BlackBerry cannot compete with iPhone. I really don't care if my iPhone can be easily jailbroken. I really don't care if it can be hacked easily. All I care about is that my iPhone takes care of my personal needs a lot better than my BlackBerry. Nobody is going to touch my iPhone except me anyway. What matters is ... can the iPhone be hacked remotely very easily. And right now .... no, it can't.
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:23 PM   #104 (permalink)
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I just wish Rim would fix the memory Leak some how. I think apple will eventually evolve into the new business standard in years to come. This whole situation looks like Ford vs Honda to me.
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:29 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by teamcrn View Post
I just wish Rim would fix the memory Leak some how. I think apple will eventually evolve into the new business standard in years to come. This whole situation looks like Ford vs Honda to me.
What they need is a revamp of the entire OS. There is no doubt that the OS is aged. Instead of spending serious time developing the OS, they simply update an unoptimized and aged design with more features, only adding to the overhead. They need to get off their butts and put more effort into the OS instead of working on silly devices (Thunder). The OS is a beast and it does not have to be. It should run a lot more efficient than it does. 4.6 is the same OS we have had since the 90's ... now with black goop thrown on top!
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:34 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gmpblack View Post
• Are Insurance & Durability important to you?
• You are investing in a smartphone, don’t you want to invest in a product that will last?
• BlackBerry devices are renowned in the industry for their durability & longevity. This is due to the device construction, rigorous testing and high standards
• With AT&T Asurion insurance, you can have insurance on all BlackBerry devices available from AT&T. This insurance is not available on a certain BlackBerry competitors
• Would you like to be able to easily & quickly type on your Smartphone?
• BlackBerry has a superior ergonomic keyboard with large buttons that allows you to easily and quickly type out a text, email or instant message
• The BlackBerry trackball & keyboard are designed for quick and easy one-handed typing while on the go
• Do you email? If the question is email then the answer is BlackBerry
• BlackBerry has a patented PUSH Email system that allows you to keep track of up to 10 different work or personal email accounts. Each mailbox is wirelessly updated whenever you send, delete or read messages on your Smartphone
• BlackBerry will wirelessly synchronize for free with all email accounts including 4 major email accounts (Google, Hotmail/MSN, Yahoo & AOL)
• Do you like Instant Messaging (IM)?
• Did you know that a certain BlackBerry competitor does not have the ability to IM?
• On BlackBerry, Instant Messaging will be included in your unlimited monthly data plan, it will not cost you more. You can use all of the popular IM clients (AOL, Windows Live, Yahoo, Google, ICQ) which are easily downloaded from BlackBerry Software Store - powered by Handango or http://mobile.blackberry.com
• You can also use BlackBerry Messenger, which is free unlimited IM from your BlackBerry to any BlackBerry on any carrier in the world. (with a BlackBerry data plan)










• Do you want to buy a smartphone with proven and reliable battery life?
• You are purchasing a smartphone, wouldn’t you like it to last as long as you do? BlackBerry prides itself on long lasting, reliable battery life no matter what you are using it for (Phone calls, texting, watching a movie, listening to music, GPS, WIFI etc)
• Also BlackBerry has a patented email/instant messaging system that allows it to stay constantly connected to all data systems without draining the device’s battery life
• BlackBerry devices have one of the longest talk times in the industry.
• Smartphone power users, especially those who travel, prefer a user-replaceable battery, which is what the BlackBerry utilizes. A certain BlackBerry competitor has a non-removable battery which would require professional attention if replacement is needed
• As a bonus, BlackBerry Authentic Accessories also save you even more battery life. They have patented technology built in to automatically turn off the screen when holstered
• Do you want your Smartphone to be able to video record?
• You can currently video record on your BlackBerry Pearl 8110. When new free software updates are released for the 8300 and 8310, they will also have this exciting feature
• A certain BlackBerry competitor is not able to video record
• Smartphones can copy and paste
• It’s one of the most simple/basic functions of a Smartphone. BlackBerry has been able to do this for over a decade
• How advanced are you when you can’t copy and paste? A certain BlackBerry competitor is not able to copy and paste
• You can Edit File Attachments on a BlackBerry
• You cannot edit File attachments on a certain BlackBerry competitor
• Yes, on BlackBerry, you can edit word & excel documents using software downloaded from BlackBerry Software Store - powered by Handango or in the future, BlackBerry handheld software will have this preloaded
• BlackBerry devices can be used as a tethered modem
• A certain BlackBerry competitor cannot. Tethered Modem is a great feature for customers on the go that would benefit from a high-speed internet connection with their Laptop. Only $60/month from AT&T
• Smartphones have 1 touch speed dialing & voice dialing
• BlackBerry devices include Alpha numeric dialing (1800FLOWERS), 1 touch dialing, voice activated dialing & 6 way conference calling
• A certain BlackBerry competitor cannot 1 touch speed dial or voice dial.





• Use your BlackBerry External Memory as actual storage space for whatever you want
• You can save anything you want to your BlackBerry Micro SD memory card including Microsoft Office documents (Word, PowerPoint, Excel), PDFs & much more
• On a certain BlackBerry competitor, you cannot save your office documents to the device
• The BlackBerry Pearl 8110 can hold an 8 GB Micro SD card and the BlackBerry Curve 8310 can hold a 4 GB Micro SD card. BlackBerry devices have been designed so that when software is updated, they will be able to handle larger Micro SD cards, for free!
• A certain BlackBerry competitor cannot upgrade their memory size
• BlackBerry devices sync with Mac computers. Download PocketMac https://na.blackberry.com/eng/services/
• BlackBerry is a great media player & Syncs with your iTunes on Mac or PC
• BlackBerry Media Sync is free software that allows you to sync your BlackBerry directly with music on your iTunes playlists, using a PC. This software will be available for free from BlackBerry
• Did you know that numerous 3rd party developers have also developed software that allows you to sync your BlackBerry with your iTunes playlists on your Mac? Google “BlackBerry Sync iTunes Mac” to discover the possibilities
• Spin through all the music album art on your BlackBerry with MiuTunes - Transform your BlackBerry into a cool MP3 player or www.flipside.fm/flipside.jad. It wirelessly downloads album art for free to your BlackBerry. You can select the free trial period or purchase the music players for a small onetime cost
• Did you know that BlackBerry includes Roxio Media Manager for free in the box? This installs on your PC and allows you to easily & quickly sync all of your media with your BlackBerry. It also has a free video converter to optimize your movies for your BlackBerry
• BlackBerry fits in your pocket & offers you a choice in device type
• Both the BlackBerry Pearl and BlackBerry Curve are smaller and lighter than a certain BlackBerry competitor
• BlackBerry Smartphones provide the same reliable, easy to use, wireless experience in a variety of form factors and a great choice of colors suited for any work style or lifestyle
• BlackBerry - Millions love it. Millions own it. There are many reasons why we’re #1
• BlackBerry has over 16 million subscribers around the world and has shipped over 40 Million handsets
• Available in more than 350 carriers & channels in over 135 countries around the world!
• BlackBerry has the most subscribers of any smartphone at AT&T
• BlackBerry is a smartphone innovator first and foremost
Investments are assets that yield a profit. Buying a phone, a car, or objects that do not appreciate in value are not investments. They are liabilities.

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Old 07-16-2008, 02:36 PM   #107 (permalink)
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RIM was downgraded to under perform today:

AppleInsider | BlackBerry maker downgraded in light of blistering iPhone sales

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Old 07-16-2008, 02:36 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Thatxxx8217;s why I Gave the Ford vs. Honda comparison. Ford didnxxx8217;t make efficient and long lasting cars they made big trucks and muscle cars while Honda made small 4 cylinder cars that were efficient and didnxxx8217;t brake. In the end the consumer voted with there dollar and Honda has over taken market share. People laughed at you if you had a Honda. I know you guys remember Datsun!! Now look datsun aka Nissan. Itxxx8217;s a top car company around the world. I think some companies donxxx8217;t learn from history. If Rim doesnxxx8217;t start getting in gear they will miss the boat. Another funny story. I am sure most have heard of Pitney Bowes right(Mail meters)? Well the people who head Pitney Bowes thought Email was a fad and refused to invest in the Technology in the early stagexxx8217;s. Well we all know how much of a Fad it is..lol
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:43 PM   #109 (permalink)
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That’s why I Gave the Ford vs. Honda comparison. Ford didn’t make efficient and long lasting cars they made big trucks and muscle cars while Honda made small 4 cylinder cars that were efficient and didn’t brake. In the end the consumer voted with there dollar and Honda has over taken market share. People laughed at you if you had a Honda. I know you guys remember Datsun!! Now look datsun aka Nissan. It’s a top car company around the world. I think some companies don’t learn from history. If Rim doesn’t start getting in gear they will miss the boat. Another funny story. I am sure most have heard of Pitney Bowes right(Mail meters)? Well the people who head Pitney Bowes thought Email was a fad and refused to invest in the Technology in the early stage’s. Well we all know how much of a Fad it is..lol
The hardware they make is top notch. The BIS/BES infrastructure is top notch. The software on the units themselves is in the same outdated state PalmOS is in .... difference is PalmOS is a hell of a lot more efficient. At least Palm is TRYING to rewrite their OS from scratch to modernize ... which is more more than RIM is trying to do.
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:49 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Alex Alexzander View Post

"It's that software front, Wolf argues, that's destined to emerge as the "next battleground" in the smartphone market. RIM's "primitive" Java development tools have "no hope of catching" up with Apple's powerful and easy-to-use iPhone SDK, he says."

Thats what I have been saying since the beginning. I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY HOPE RIM gets a clue and updates the SDK so we get higher quality software.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:27 PM   #111 (permalink)
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RIM seems to be having some serious execution problems lately:

* New product time to market - Nobody in the Tech business announces products like RIM did with Bold at WES without either giving a GA date or having an imminent release. This would border on vaporware if it wasn't for the various reports from BGR et al.

* OS 4.5 is still not GA and the Beta builds are all over the internet. RIM's sustaining engineering group seems to be having issues getting this right.

Not an execution issue (sort of) but you make a good point about the BB SDK and the ability to create compelling applications for the platform. What has really come out lately that is really incredible? Not much. The Rexguys can't seem to get the next Todomatrix release into GA, and even Viigo hasn't yet released a new Beta build.

Platform penetration will be decided by many things but application software is a big part and I haven't seen much lately for this platform that rates "way cool" status.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:52 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Well 4.5 HAS BEEN RELEASED for nearly every GSM device (if not all) that will be getting it. How is it not generally available? RIM announced the Curve at WES last year, and This year was the Bold. The curve, and all of its many iterations have been released have they not? The various blog posts are just rumors/hearsay until an actual product is released. The 9000 has been in development for quite some time now. Many people have seen it. I had one in my hands in January of this year, a functional model. I say functional because although it did work, it was a very rough OS on it.
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Old 07-16-2008, 04:02 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Also it comes down to this:

Consumers buy what they want, and frequently change their mind. (iPhone)
Businesses buy what they need, and use it until they can justify an upgrade. (BlackBerry)
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Old 07-16-2008, 04:10 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Well 4.5 HAS BEEN RELEASED for nearly every GSM device (if not all) that will be getting it. How is it not generally available?
Has been released where and at what build level? Did I miss it for the 8820 on AT&T?

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RIM announced the Curve at WES last year, and This year was the Bold. The curve, and all of its many iterations have been released have they not? The various blog posts are just rumors/hearsay until an actual product is released. The 9000 has been in development for quite some time now. Many people have seen it. I had one in my hands in January of this year, a functional model. I say functional because although it did work, it was a very rough OS on it.
I'm not saying the device doesn't exist. I'm saying you don't announce it at your premier user conference without giving a GA date. As no GA date was given, RIM has left the door wide open to speculation and rumor.
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Old 07-16-2008, 05:48 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Safari is a great browser, now question about it. There are third party apps in development that will use WebKit for the BlackBerry. Its going to be a bit before this is released, but it is in the works. As for media, you are absolutely correct. Apple and their iPods are king in that world, and the iPhone is just an extension of that. Medical Apps? Nearly every hospital in the Washington DC/Baltimore area uses BlackBerry's exclusively. They provide the custom apps to their Drs via the BES.

By the way, as of yesterday/today sometime the iPhone was jailbroken, the OS hacked. 4 days or so from release. Security is a concern for individuals much less than businesses. But why, as an IT professional, would I want to deply ANY iPhones in an environment where you need any shred of security? The 9000 will be a HUGE step forward for RIM. Faster processor than the iPhone. Better screen than the iPhone. More memory than the iPhone. Better battery life with push email. Most importantly, the most secure mobile device on the market. Apple will outsell RIM in the consumer market. There is no question in my mind. It will be closer than most people will predict I am sure. But business, Apple will make very little headway there. There just is not enough there for it to sway the IT professionals.

a few things........

1. There are alot of really nice medical apps coming out for the iPhone that simply cannot be done on the BB

2. Dont know how people can say the Bold screen is better, because it is still tiny. I would hate do do any extend reading or browsing on this thing. Physical size is way to small for a modern device

3. As for making "little headway" into the business world, I think you should go back and look at the number of fortune 500 companies that have commited to an iPhone rollout (including mine).

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Old 07-16-2008, 09:37 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Apple can throw up all the stats they want .. 500 companies wanted to be part of the BETA (ours included) to validate it met our security needs and basically see how the device performed.

Reality is Exchange performance is the same as windows mobile, ActiveSync still eats up the battery like pacman running a maze of dots. Security is limited (E2k3 here) to device password / device wipe. I have been in at least 10 meetings the past two weeks with every division in the company wanting to explore iphone development and everyone is all excited and they they ask about the usual security concerns and it all hits them like cement ..

Oh .. there is no device management, encryption of data?
Oh unless we have a Cisco VPN it can't get to our internal sites / apps?

BES provides a central environment with security and VPN tunnel via MDS all in one box. Sure Iphone will at some point get different VPN access and someone will at some point make a management system for it, offer device encryption but ding ding, there goes your TCO through the roof compared to RIM's CAL, even with T-support it likely will be cheaper so when your talking thousands of devices it's still Blackberry and everything else is a distant "gadget".

There is a lot of good discussion and obviously we all love technology / mobility but what I want as a corporate admin / mobility professional is not the same as what a user wants / expects. I realize some companies do not have as stringent security concerns as we may have and apple could be a great solution for you. We are definately watching this unfold but you need to set a level of expectations to business areas when Iphone still is developing.

Salesforce.com and Oracle is a start but I'd like to see some of the mobile leaders develope for iphone - Pyxis, Chalk, the real Bloomberg anywhere app .. things my sales and agents use. And what really kills me is I need Apple to approve anything we want to put on the device? No thanks .. we don't want to support Itunes or need approval for applications we develop. Apple needs to really buy or develop a central server for corporate management of devices, until then it's just a consumer device we allow for basic functionality (email) and nothing else.
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Old 07-17-2008, 09:42 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith_Apprentice View Post
Also it comes down to this:

Consumers buy what they want, and frequently change their mind. (iPhone)
Businesses buy what they need, and use it until they can justify an upgrade. (BlackBerry)
All of my argument FOR the iPhone is the device AS A CONSUMER PHONE. Most people out there who are into smartphones are consumers. The company that is able to grab a majority of the consumer market will always have more units sold than the company who is able to grab a majority of the corporate market. I agree with you that BlackBerry is a much better business phone. I want an enjoyable phone for my every day life. My every day life does not include work. So for my every day phone iPhone is a much better device IMHO. BlackBerry is a superior device for the other less fun part of my life.
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