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Old 04-14-2009, 10:28 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I think that argument fails to account that the iPhone is trying to be more business like, which is why it has push email, Lotus Notes and Microsoft Exchange synchronization. The argument also fails to account that Blackberry is going after the consumer market, ergo with the Storm, the Pearl and the Pearl Flip. The Curve is already prosumer and aiming at lower points of the qwerty market. At the same time, the Storm is going after the multimedia market evidenced by the maturing video playing ability.

Which means as the fruit phones battle each other, they're also invading Nokia's turf, who isn't taking things likely and is fighting back. And everything I read about the E-Series Nokia is that its a worthy opponent to Blackberries and the iPhone, not to mentioning the XPressMusic and N-series are all sharpening up.

And there is still the Windows Mobile crowd that are rejuvenated with the HTC and Samsung devices, even as the old stalwarts of Motorola and Palm goes to the side of the road. WM is going after both consumer and business crowd.

Same with Android too.

No one is in the right mind to think each combatant is satisfied staying on their turf. Each is attacking everywhere and anywhere they can, both business, prosumer and consumer.

If Blackberry is solely for Business People, and still not easy enough for consumers, it is a valid criticism that Blackberry will take in heart because they want the consumer market as well. And Apple wants the Business market as well, even though they're even invading Nintendo's turf with all the games and Bluetooth multi-gamer networking.
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:45 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Which means as the fruit phones battle each other, they're also invading Nokia's turf, who isn't taking things likely and is fighting back.
With all due respect, Nokia has very little "turf" here in the U.S. Symbian may be Europe's choice, but it not very popular here.
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Old 04-15-2009, 09:06 AM   #43 (permalink)
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The US has a certain disconnect from the rest of the world because Nokia isn't just popular in Europe, but also in India, the Middle East, in South East Asia, in South America, in Russia, in Central Asia, in Australia, in Africa, in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and some presence even in Japan. Put it this way, Nokia is popular everywhere.

Even without a Nokia brand, a lot of phones in China, Japan (e.g. Docomo FOMA), and Korea run on Symbian. Symbian alone accounts for 72% of the Japanese smartphone market plus a share to Linux, and 60% of the Chinese smartphone market where another 20-30% went to Linux like the MotoMings.

Not only that, the US doesn't represent the majority of mobile phone users in the world. Not by far. China Mobile alone has more subscribers than the entire population of the United States. Heck, there are 600 million subscribers in China alone, and Nokia and Symbian has a strong presence there.

When iPhone went international, guess who took the brunt of it. Particularly vulnerable to Apple's onslaught are multimedia phones like the N-series, the XPressmusic, as well as various Sony Ericsson phones, since SE has a specialty in the area.

When RIM strengthened its overseas presence, the market it was displacing have been Nokia Communicators, and various WM and Palm phones.

RIM's growth in the US market, along with the iPhone, came at the expense of two major players, Palm and Motorola. I think Palm OS and Windows Mobile took it particularly hard, and Palm and WM qwerty handsets were most vulnerable to RIM's market expansion. But thanks to HTC. Samsung, and other Asian manufacturers, WM's share of the market is sustained globally because they are able to penetrate and distribute into areas where Apple and RIM has not invaded or made a strong impact. An example is WM having 90% of the Korean smartphone market.

You really can't count Nokia out. They have revised their strategy and the excellent E-series is clearly gunning at RIM. They are beginning to learn how to play the US carrier game as you can see with the AT&T E71x. They are relying less on the T9 keypad phones, has moved to qwerty, slider qwerty and touchscreen phones. There is an even E-series, the E55, that will boast the short Suretype qwerty format used on the BB Pearls. They have developed their email capabilities further and further, as you can see with the latest release and distribution of S60 (starting on the E71x, E75, 5730XM and E55). In terms of browsers, the S60 browser is as fast as Safari being based on the same webkit engine. It may not have multi touch or pinch, but the browser already has Flash which Apple doesn't. Unlike Win Mo, whose crankiness exposes vulnerabilities, Nokia have refined Symbian to the point its fast, responsive, reliable well featured and well supported by apps. So they can compete with Apple and RIM on equal footing on quality.

Last edited by Drillbit : 04-15-2009 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 04-15-2009, 09:38 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Are there any guys know when and why chinese are focusing on the RIM blackberry phone???

i will tell you the truth, since the movie "PrisonBreak", lol.
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Old 04-17-2009, 12:04 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drillbit View Post
The US has a certain disconnect from the rest of the world because Nokia isn't just popular in Europe, but also in India, the Middle East, in South East Asia, in South America, in Russia, in Central Asia, in Australia, in Africa, in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and some presence even in Japan. Put it this way, Nokia is popular everywhere.
A lot of this is Nokia's fault. One of the main reason was their snub of CDMA. Without CDMA phones, you have effectively limited your subscribers base here in the states. Second was their refusal to deploy touch screen devices. Its only recently, due to the iphone, that they have changed their mind. I think Nokia had a bit of elitism and Euro-snobbery when it came their devices here in the US, as a result, they have very little market share here. I don't know of one person who has a Nokia device or have the slightest clue what Symbian is.
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:22 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Nokia was actually making CDMA devices at one point, then Qualcomm came in and demanded royalties. After some legal wrangling, Nokia dropped CDMA entirely at least in the United States but continue to offer them elsewhere, like India.

CDMA licensing gives CDMA a price disadvantage over GSM, which is why the majority around the world goes with GSM.

I've been in countries where it looks like 9 out of 10 people seem to be holding a Nokia phone. Nokia sells more than 400 million phones annually. That's more than every soul in the United States.

I don't think its not an unfair decision that Nokia should diminish their CDMA participation. Afterall, the world is either going GSM or its 3G successor, W-CDMA/UMTS/HSPA. Look at South Korea, a bulwark in CDMA. Its now going HSPA although it still has EVDO networks. Japan went directly from their proprietary generation 1 interfaces to HSPA. In the US, there is considerable erosion in CDMA, thanks not just to the iPhone, but to a formidable line up of GSM/HSPA phones with AT&T and T-Mobile that includes the BB Bold, Curve, and Pearls. And by the way, even though Nokia's sales are down globally, its actually up in the US, thanks to the E71 and the 5800. AT&T selling the E71x will liven things a bit.

If people come to immigrate to the US, they're likely to bring their GSM habits, and that means Nokias tend to be on top of the list. Note for example, among Asian Americans, especially Filipinos. You see lots of Nokias or GSM phones with them. If they go visit their homeland, they still take their phones, change their SIMs and wallah, it works back there. Can't do it with a CDMA phone.

If Americans and Canadians go to Europe and Asia for business, they will find their CDMA phones to be a major disadvantage in business due to lack or infrequent roaming capability. Why do you think the Storm has to put two GSM bands? I suspect the circuit space for implementing the GSM circuit is what cost the Storm losing the Wifi. So I find business travelers has to use some GSM capable phone if they need to roam.

If you look at internationally, all the sexy phones are in GSM. Storm outside of the US is 9500, which is GSM. All international Blackberries are GSM. Like all the Windows Mobiles smartphones like Omnias and HTCs, outside the US, its all GSM. Apple is already GSM. Combine that with Nokia. So internationally, the sales pressure keeps favoring GSM over and over.
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Old 04-18-2009, 01:31 PM   #47 (permalink)
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@Drillbit - I agree, GSM is the way to go, but facts are simple, if you want to compete in the U.S. market you have to offer CDMA devices, period.
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:05 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Actually, what you're trying to say is that if you want to compete in the US, you need to hook up with a carrier.

Nokia has GSM devices that still has problems even when more than half in the US are already using GSM/HSPA.

HTC doesn't have CDMA devices per se. Its only when Sprint and Verizon talks to them is when HTC modifies their devices to CDMA and fills a contract.

The problem with Nokia is that they're not good in playing the locked and customized carrier game, at least with the rules in the US. The rest of the world, doesn't have a tightly knit carrier-phone supplier relationship, although Vodaphone, China Mobile and NTT Docomo likes to sell carrier versioned phones.

Nokia is learning to finally play the game though, as you can see with their relationship with AT&T and that N71x phone---probably the sexiest looking E series ever, and exclusively only with AT&T.

On the other side of the coin, if manufacturers like Apple or Blackberry doesn't make or support unlocked phones overseas, then their RoW (Rest of the World) penetration will be limited. In fact, doing things like what Apple and Blackberry does such as having special data rates---is a major turn off overseas.
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:31 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Yeah i agree, Apple certainly needs to step it up as far as normal phone features go. Sure, you can track restaurants and play thousands of games on the thing, and even pour yourself a virtual pint of beer, but you cant send a simple MMS message? I was also disappointed that apple only has a landscape keyboard for the internet application, but not SMS or email, on EITHER generation of the iphone... It is definately something that i would like to see on the newer generations of iphone, seeing as all Apple seems to be interested in is thickness and outer design features rather than keeping up with the most simple of phones by adding MMS
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:25 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Yeah i agree, Apple certainly needs to step it up as far as normal phone features go. Sure, you can track restaurants and play thousands of games on the thing, and even pour yourself a virtual pint of beer, but you cant send a simple MMS message? I was also disappointed that apple only has a landscape keyboard for the internet application, but not SMS or email, on EITHER generation of the iphone... It is definately something that i would like to see on the newer generations of iphone, seeing as all Apple seems to be interested in is thickness and outer design features rather than keeping up with the most simple of phones by adding MMS
Those lacking things will all be dealt with come by June.
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:36 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Yeah i agree, Apple certainly needs to step it up as far as normal phone features go. Sure, you can track restaurants and play thousands of games on the thing, and even pour yourself a virtual pint of beer, but you cant send a simple MMS message? I was also disappointed that apple only has a landscape keyboard for the internet application, but not SMS or email, on EITHER generation of the iphone... It is definately something that i would like to see on the newer generations of iphone, seeing as all Apple seems to be interested in is thickness and outer design features rather than keeping up with the most simple of phones by adding MMS
In all fairness, the same thing can be said for the BB Storm. Who builds a touch screen phone without a proximity sensor so that you don't accidentally hang up the phone when its up against your face.
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