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Old 02-10-2008, 06:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default HUGE problem: Users don't know to install Device Software

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On my BlackBerry 8130 blog, I am seeing HEAVY traffic into my article on BlackBerry Device Software, then exiting from my blog to the BlackBerry download site. I think the fault lies largely with the wireless providers from whom they purchased their phones.



For example, Verizon sold me my 8130 with a CD for installing the BlackBerry Desktop Manager. I followed all the instructions and things worked OK until I tried to run the Application Loader. I got a nasty error message that led me into finding a solution that I posted on my blog. By far the largest number of visitors to my blog are using that post to fix the same problem I had. I know for sure that Verizon and Sprint, and probably others, are NOT informing owners that they need to download and install the appropriate Device Software. I've also heard that even RIM technical support has not figured out how to fix this problem.

If you're having problems with your Application Loader inside the BlackBerry Desktop Manager, please check out my blog post on that topic.
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Old 02-10-2008, 07:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellydcarter View Post
. . .
If you're having problems with your Application Loader inside the BlackBerry Desktop Manager, please check out my blog post on that topic.
Application Loader Error - BlackBerryFAQ.com
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Old 02-10-2008, 07:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Reinventing the Wheel 101
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Old 02-10-2008, 07:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8800/4.2.1 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

Yep this "issue" has been well covered here on BBF
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Are you guys more interested in helping people or keeping a squeaky clean forum?

If the other posting you're referring to was as effective as you think, Google and other searches wouldn't be driving BlackBerry owners to MY blog to help people get their problem fixed. Within an hour of my posting the message above that you're criticizing, I've already seen (in my blog statistics) where it has driven 4 people to the Device Software download site. Since I first posted my blog article (the one that is you say is so redundant to this forum's similar post), it has driven a few hundred people to download the fix they needed. I get comments and emails from them every day thanking me for the help.

So, please keep in perspective that the value of these forums is to HELP people. Your retorts to my "redundant" message--who is that helping?
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellydcarter View Post
If the other posting you're referring to was as effective as you think, Google and other searches wouldn't be driving BlackBerry owners to MY blog to help people get their problem fixed. Within an hour of my posting the message above that you're criticizing, I've already seen (in my blog statistics) where it has driven 4 people to the Device Software download site. Since I first posted my blog article (the one that is you say is so redundant to this forum's similar post), it has driven a few hundred people to download the fix they needed. I get comments and emails from them every day thanking me for the help.

So, please keep in perspective that the value of these forums is to HELP people. Your retorts to my "redundant" message--who is that helping?
You are advertising your blog here, that's all. I prefer to refer people who come here for help to relevant info here on the forum or at the FAQ.
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Old 02-10-2008, 08:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The point is, it's not news. It's included in our FAQ's. I'm glad your site is getting HEAVY traffic.
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellydcarter View Post
If the other posting you're referring to was as effective as you think, Google and other searches wouldn't be driving BlackBerry owners to MY blog to help people get their problem fixed. Within an hour of my posting the message above that you're criticizing, I've already seen (in my blog statistics) where it has driven 4 people to the Device Software download site. Since I first posted my blog article (the one that is you say is so redundant to this forum's similar post), it has driven a few hundred people to download the fix they needed. I get comments and emails from them every day thanking me for the help.

So, please keep in perspective that the value of these forums is to HELP people. Your retorts to my "redundant" message--who is that helping?
How about we back this truck up a little.

Many of us have been here for a loooong time helping people who ask the same questions over and over and over. That spawned the creation of Main Page - BlackBerryFAQ.com, which also helps people, contrary to what you may think.

Your blog obviously does help people, and that is great. But keep in mind that coming here and posting a link to it, while certainly allowed, does not mean that we are a bunch of idiots who don't know how to help people.

104,000 active members and thousands of questions and answers a day speaks for itself.

Perhaps I'm misreading the tone of your post?
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I can tell already that this thread will hit a 3 digit post count in NO time
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Hmmm....a google search for "Application Loader error"


Application Loader error - Google Search

and a search for "no new applications for your device were found"

no new applications for your device were found - Google Search


I don't see your blog in there. Regardless, I'm glad your blog gets traffic but you are far from the first one to figure out a fix for this.

Last edited by John Clark : 02-10-2008 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Be nice guys. That was not necessary. :(
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Old 02-10-2008, 10:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Kelly is promoting his site, which is fine, isn't the first person to do so here. Won't hurt anyone, might help.

He's also raising visibility on a common question, which also won't hurt. Would have made sense to point to the FAQ content on this as well, but hey, he's promoting his site.

It is amazing how frequently this comes up, made up in equal parts of:

- Completely useless error message provided by RIM. I mean, come on, you can find better error messages in free shareware from 17 year-olds than this.

- Lack (in my experience) of any help/information from carrier sales people when they sell you the BB. They sell it to you like it's a regular phone ("Have fun, see ya!"), and it sure ain't.

- Laziness on the part of new owners (and I should admit that though I'm not sure, I think I may have been one who asked about this error message rather than doing my usual google) who come and ask rather than search.

Did I say equal parts? How hard, really, would it be for RIM to put in a simple check for an installed OS at App Loader startup, and provide a sensible error message clarifying the OS-insalled-on-the-PC requirement. Heck, the error message could even provide a link to the carrier OS download page (BlackBerry - BlackBerry Desktop and Device Software Download Sites) that would allow customers to quickly find their OS to download it. Or at least tell them to go to their carrier's site or contact their carrier for more info. And provide a link into DM Help for more information. Basic user-experience stuff...no rocket science or brain surgery involved.

Something along those lines would kill 80% of the chatter about this issue (20% never figure things out, and will still come asking for more help).
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Old 02-10-2008, 10:29 PM   #13 (permalink)
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The issue isn't really that it needs the OS installed. The issue is that the Desktop Manager's version of Loader.exe doesn't support the newer OS of the particular device plugged in. The fix is installing the OS, which installs a newer/compatible version of Loader.exe.
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Old 02-10-2008, 11:29 PM   #14 (permalink)
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ok

Cant we all just get along......yes lurkers do speak !
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Old 02-10-2008, 11:33 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post
The issue isn't really that it needs the OS installed. The issue is that the Desktop Manager's version of Loader.exe doesn't support the newer OS of the particular device plugged in. The fix is installing the OS, which installs a newer/compatible version of Loader.exe.
From the user perspective it ends w/the same result.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:16 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redflea View Post
From the user perspective it ends w/the same result.
Yep....just thoutht I'd explain it for anyone wanting to know.
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Old 02-11-2008, 07:06 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Wirelessly posted (8700g: BlackBerry8700/4.2.1 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redflea View Post
From the user perspective it ends w/the same result.
Yep....just thoutht I'd explain it for anyone wanting to know.
I didn't know, and appreciate the info.

And BTW, I have no problem with anyone inviting forum members to check out their blog. That wasn't my issue with the OP.
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Old 02-11-2008, 08:41 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I did find the OP web page when i did a google search for my phone. when i was looking for a forum for the phone his site did coome back as an option and i did see what was on there. it is helpful with his info but i was looking for more then that. i am happy i found this place to call my home!!
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:10 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default My final word on this (I hope)

I'll try to avoid adding unnecessary redundancy to forum messages because I know you moderators have a tough job keeping things clean and organized--in the sincere interest of helping users find solutions to problems.

I ask that moderators consider that redundancy isn't always bad. As a college instructor, I know that people don't all read or understand at the same level, and not all people communicate in the same style. To be honest, I've read several posts across the web on the SAME solution to the problem I was dealing with. Even though I ALREADY understood the solution, I felt some posts where simply not understandable to many readers. AND, I've had many people fix this problem using my explanation on my blog. So, I wanted to use this EXCELLENT forum as a place to share my "version" of the fix. I feel vindicated in that this forum has sent a lot of people to my blog where they've been thrilled to get their problem fixed (many messages show up only in my personal email, not on the blog). In retrospect, I should have also referred to this forum's post(s) on the same topic; I did my post somewhat impulsively.

Last edited by kellydcarter : 02-14-2008 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:23 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Thank you kelly. All contributions here are certainly appreciated, yours included. I think the misunderstanding might have been that many of your posts have the appearance to simply to link the reader to your blog for a solution.

We "prefer" solutions be posted here for all to benefit, comment and troubleshoot. That process helps the most users overall. I have asked a couple of times that if anyone could add clarity to our FAQ page on the issue, to please do so. Since it was created 48 days ago, the page has been viewed over 9300 times. I know a number of viewers must be getting helped by it, but I also know from the emails and questions I get, many aren't clear on the directions. Application Loader Error - BlackBerryFAQ.com

I ask the same of you. Would you post your solution here in this thread? I know many would benefit from it, and if you feel it worthy, I'd be glad to add your suggestions to our FAQ on the issue. Deal?

Last edited by JSanders : 02-14-2008 at 05:51 PM.
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