BlackBerry Forums Support Community               

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-07-2006, 02:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
jrdul6748's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Athens, GA
Model: 8100
Carrier: T-Mobile
Posts: 99
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default So, honestly... What's a new OS release capable of doing...

Please Login to Remove!

I hear people talking about GPS navigation, video recording and so forth. Are these really doable just through an OS upgrade?
__________________
Go Mets '08 & Beyond!
Offline  
Old 11-07-2006, 02:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
Cisco Engineer
 
mckinneycm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ventura, California
Model: 9700
OS: 5.0.0.421
PIN: 100001011001011000001100111011
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 3,388
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

GPS navigation has always been available. And video recording is not possible period.
__________________
Corey McKinney

www.coreymckinney.com
Offline  
Old 11-07-2006, 02:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
Retired BBF Moderator
 
paulbblc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Model: ip 3g
PIN: 8675309
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 3,555
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

It does all the same things that the old version did minus some of the bugs. That's all.
Offline  
Old 11-07-2006, 02:59 PM   #4 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
jrdul6748's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Athens, GA
Model: 8100
Carrier: T-Mobile
Posts: 99
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulbblc
It does all the same things that the old version did minus some of the bugs. That's all.
AN update, not THE update.
__________________
Go Mets '08 & Beyond!
Offline  
Old 11-07-2006, 03:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
jrdul6748's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Athens, GA
Model: 8100
Carrier: T-Mobile
Posts: 99
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mckinneycm
GPS navigation has always been available. And video recording is not possible period.
I'm new to BB's and, really to GPS, so... I guess I mean't GPS embedded in the phone like what the new Sprint BB's offer without syncing with another GPS gadget (such as out-of-car, on the sidwalk)? (Which I don't get.. If you already have a GPS "module" or whatever, why would you need to hook up your phone to it?) Still learning, folks.
__________________
Go Mets '08 & Beyond!
Offline  
Old 11-07-2006, 03:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Model: 8100
Posts: 9
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mckinneycm
GPS navigation has always been available. And video recording is not possible period.
Agreed. Video recording would be made possible only by the initial hardware having recording capability. And if they equipped the Pearl with a video recorder from the get go, why not release the capability with the software in the first place? It would be a waste of resources.
__________________
My 8100's battery smells exactly like celery. Don't know why. What a strange thing for a battery to smell like! Maybe I should just stop sniffing it.
Offline  
Old 11-07-2006, 03:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
Cisco Engineer
 
mckinneycm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ventura, California
Model: 9700
OS: 5.0.0.421
PIN: 100001011001011000001100111011
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 3,388
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrdul6748
I'm new to BB's and, really to GPS, so... I guess I mean't GPS embedded in the phone like what the new Sprint BB's offer without syncing with another GPS gadget (such as out-of-car, on the sidwalk)? (Which I don't get.. If you already have a GPS "module" or whatever, why would you need to hook up your phone to it?) Still learning, folks.
No, the 8100 requires the use of a bluetooth GPS receiver. The mapping software on the 8100 uses the coordinates from the bluetooth GPS receiver to pin point your location.
__________________
Corey McKinney

www.coreymckinney.com
Offline  
Old 11-07-2006, 03:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
gsxr150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Model: 8100
Carrier: Sprint
Posts: 194
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrdul6748
AN update, not THE update.
__________________
8100 Pearl
4.2 TMO OS
Full: Best Skin Ever
Sound Mod
Offline  
Old 11-07-2006, 04:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Model: 8100
Carrier: T-Mobile
Posts: 26
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaqs
Agreed. Video recording would be made possible only by the initial hardware having recording capability. And if they equipped the Pearl with a video recorder from the get go, why not release the capability with the software in the first place? It would be a waste of resources.

That doesn't sound like a good assumption to me...considering the differences between the OS versions we've already seen.

You could've said the same thing about supporting 2 gig memory cards awhile ago.

While the hardware (camera itself, memory bus bandwidth, whatever else) may not be able to support video recording, it's equally likely that they simply ran out of time to provide adequete software support for it initially. It wouldn't be a waste of resources so much as an immature OS.
Offline  
Old 11-07-2006, 04:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
CrackBerry Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Model: 950
Carrier: robbers
Posts: 909
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrdul6748
I hear people talking about GPS navigation, video recording and so forth. Are these really doable just through an OS upgrade?
Let's see, OS 4.0 brought the Internet to many blackberries that didn't have it..

that's gotta be enough reason for you =)
Offline  
Old 11-07-2006, 06:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Model: 8100
Posts: 9
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fgizzard
That doesn't sound like a good assumption to me...considering the differences between the OS versions we've already seen.

You could've said the same thing about supporting 2 gig memory cards awhile ago.

While the hardware (camera itself, memory bus bandwidth, whatever else) may not be able to support video recording, it's equally likely that they simply ran out of time to provide adequete software support for it initially. It wouldn't be a waste of resources so much as an immature OS.
Fair enough. I would guess not, though, since video recording capability seems like a hardware element that might be desirable to release a device with, promotion-wise. Memory expansion and support, while exciting and fun, is a common upgrade in computers, cell phones, mp3 players, etc. Unveiling what was believed to be a camera as a recording device is somewhat less common. But the idea that the hardware is NOT capable is just my assumption, since I haven't torn apart the device and checked it out. ;) I do see your point.

That's not to say I'm not excited about updates, though. Maybe I'm just prejudiced against the video idea, since a recorder would probably seem a bit rudimentary and lame compared to that of my actual camera. There are a lot of little bugs that I would love to see fixed, and memory expansion/ support is always very exciting.
__________________
My 8100's battery smells exactly like celery. Don't know why. What a strange thing for a battery to smell like! Maybe I should just stop sniffing it.
Offline  
Old 11-07-2006, 06:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Model: 8100
Carrier: T-Mobile
Posts: 37
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fgizzard
While the hardware (camera itself, memory bus bandwidth, whatever else) may not be able to support video recording, it's equally likely that they simply ran out of time to provide adequete software support for it initially. It wouldn't be a waste of resources so much as an immature OS.
It's not quite "equally likely" because at some point, it becomes a cost issue. Encoding video at reasonable qualities requires two major components - a good, rapid CCD sensor, and a quick method of encoding video into some compressed format. Uncompressed video would be so insanely huge, even at low sizes as to completely fill even a 1GB memory card in minutes. I don't believe the BB8100's processor is capable of encoding video by itself, while running other features of the OS such as the ability to receive phonecalls.

There would need to be a video encoder chip in the design someplace, and I strongly suspect there isn't one. Remember, the Pearl launched significantly less expensively than other BlackBerry devices did, and they had to cut corners someplace considering all the new ideas and features they packed into the units. They could only go so far and continue making the kind of profit margins they're used to.
Offline  
Old 11-07-2006, 06:46 PM   #13 (permalink)
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
SanFrancisco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Francisco
Model: 9700
OS: XP, 7
PIN: HEAD
Carrier: T-Mobile
Posts: 2,345
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

RIM said the Pearl took three years to develop. During that time I am sure they discussed including video recording capability.

So they either left it out to put the feature on to a new model, which I said before could be named the "8100v" ["V" for video]. But that name is out since the Pearl in Italy will be named the 8100v.

The only other thought is that they could not include recording capability for some reason. I don't think it is a hardware issue since a camera lens is a lens as far as camera lens go.

I think it's more a software issue, the programming. Maybe video recording capability would eat too much memory of the Pearl's 64MB size. I know my Pearl, without many programs installed [a few 400k games] shows only 19MB left on the chip for anything I might install. So that means that the OS takes up 40 to 44MB of space. That's not much left for a video recorder, which I have to assume would be maybe a 4MB++ program.

Maybe inclusion of a video recorder would complicate matters because people would have to buy a MicroSD chip to save their videos. People already have to buy a micrSD chip if they want to put certain sized MP3 or videos on the Pearl. Just speculating on this as in my entire post.

Just my 32 cents on all this.

Last edited by SanFrancisco : 11-07-2006 at 06:50 PM.
Offline  
Old 11-08-2006, 04:06 AM   #14 (permalink)
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Model: 8100
Carrier: T-Mobile
Posts: 37
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanFrancisco
I don't think it is a hardware issue since a camera lens is a lens as far as camera lens go.

I think it's more a software issue, the programming. Maybe video recording capability would eat too much memory of the Pearl's 64MB size. I know my Pearl, without many programs installed [a few 400k games] shows only 19MB left on the chip for anything I might install. So that means that the OS takes up 40 to 44MB of space. That's not much left for a video recorder, which I have to assume would be maybe a 4MB++ program.
I have to disagree about the camera lenses. Lenses vary quite greatly in quality, but the real key for what we have are the CCD sensors that actually put together the picture and there are huge differences in these from model to model. I come from a television and production background, and I've learned quite a bit about the various forms of CCD available. Also, we're using a fairly "base" level design. It's nothing fancy, and the image quality shows that truth.

Now, I've got to say from a software and engineering viewpoint that software would be an issue but for different reasons than you suggest. A video encoder, written for a single-purpose and with the aid of a hardware component that's designed to encode video signals, would be fairly small. Probably in the range of 200-500K, so size wouldn't necessarily be the issue. Java, on the other hand, would.

Java's a great language for writing applications for multiple platforms, which is why there are so many devices and phones out there that run it. However, it's what's known as an "interpreted" language, meaning that the operating system a Java program runs on needs to do a lot of the heavy computational lifting in order for that Java program to run. The more complex and processor-intensive a Java application is, the more it essentially smacks the operating system with a mallet. Video encoding would be quite complex and demanding without a video encoder chip, but still -possible-. Without such a chip though, you'd have horrible luck. I don't think it's a valid thing to hope for unless:

A: The processor in the Pearl is more powerful than we think.
B: There is a 'dormant' chip on the Pearl's circuitry that enables video compression in hardware.
Offline  
Old 11-08-2006, 11:11 AM   #15 (permalink)
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Model: 8100
Carrier: T-Mobile
Posts: 26
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TellarHK
Now, I've got to say from a software and engineering viewpoint that software would be an issue but for different reasons than you suggest. A video encoder, written for a single-purpose and with the aid of a hardware component that's designed to encode video signals, would be fairly small. Probably in the range of 200-500K, so size wouldn't necessarily be the issue. Java, on the other hand, would.

Java's a great language for writing applications for multiple platforms, which is why there are so many devices and phones out there that run it. However, it's what's known as an "interpreted" language, meaning that the operating system a Java program runs on needs to do a lot of the heavy computational lifting in order for that Java program to run. The more complex and processor-intensive a Java application is, the more it essentially smacks the operating system with a mallet. Video encoding would be quite complex and demanding without a video encoder chip, but still -possible-. Without such a chip though, you'd have horrible luck. I don't think it's a valid thing to hope for unless:

A: The processor in the Pearl is more powerful than we think.
B: There is a 'dormant' chip on the Pearl's circuitry that enables video compression in hardware.
Java CAN be an interpreted language, but it's commonly forgotten that Java programs can also be compiled to native bytecode, which trades platform portability of the binary for execution speed. A software video encoder for the Pearl would most certainly be released that way.

I don't know if the 8100's processor is up to the task of real-time video compression, however. I know the Treo 650 sports video capabilities, and that the 8100 compares favorably with the Treo's processor, as they're both clocked at 312 mhz. The 8100 also contains a newer XScale PXA901 compared to the Treo's PXA270, so by a stretch (solely by the time when they were released and knowing nothing about the architecture differences, which could be widely inaccurate, I admit) we can assume at least comparitive power. That suggests that the 8100 may be up to the task.

If it isn't, however, there are also a variety of software tricks that could be employed...
-Reducing the size of the video resolution, so the CPU has an amount of data it can compress in real-time.
-Limiting the frames per second of the video, also to lower the amount of data needing to be compressed.
-Using a portion of the memory card as a buffer to dump real-time data, then compressing it after the fact. This would most likely require that a microSD card be utilized, and that sufficient space is available to be used as a buffer. This method would also limit the total length of any video to the size of the buffer space reserved, and limit the time between back-to-back videos.
Offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





Copyright 2004-2014 BlackBerryForums.com.
The names RIM and BlackBerry are registered Trademarks of BlackBerry Inc.