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Old 08-01-2007, 06:38 PM   #61 (permalink)
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ignorance is bliss huh?

lemmings is pretty insulting, way to go.

I still do not understand why everyone wants to beat down everything about the iphone, its not a BB. neither RIM or Apple are going to quit making phones anytime soon. i have 2 coworkers that love their iphones, i have 3 others that have BB and they are happy too, they both do different things very well. If you cant get that then im sorry for you.
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Old 08-01-2007, 07:00 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by test54 View Post
ignorance is bliss huh?

lemmings is pretty insulting, way to go.

I still do not understand why everyone wants to beat down everything about the iphone, its not a BB. neither RIM or Apple are going to quit making phones anytime soon. i have 2 coworkers that love their iphones, i have 3 others that have BB and they are happy too, they both do different things very well. If you cant get that then im sorry for you.
Lemmings is not my term, that was used by the NY Times and in fact many on the Net talking about the iPhone have used the term "lemmings." I don't know if it's insulting, but guess one can take it that way. Take a Prozac and calm down, it's not something worth getting upset about, especially on a BB forum.

iphone lemmings - Google Search

Not sure why you are taking this discussion about the iPhone and business so personal, for sure no one else on the Net is. We are all just talking about it in the business context. As far as I have seen, no one is engaging in personal attacks.

Bonus Tip: No need to waste your time feeling sorry for me. As Hyman Roth said in The Godfather: "It's just business."



I stand corrected, here's some personal attack stuff.

Brandish: 10 reasons why the Apple iPhone sucks

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Old 08-01-2007, 09:44 PM   #63 (permalink)
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not upset at all but calling people names like lemmings is an insult any way you say it, your making assumptions about someone you dont know it just stupid.

You rationale is poor at best, you quote second rate website and bad math. atleast if your want to make an arguement make sure you understand the numbers involved. You pick on Apple people following apple blindly then show yourself to be following RIM blindly. I think the thing that amazes me is you saying the Pearl is the best phone ever, no comment needed there as i guess its personal preference.

But honestly, all these arguments were make a months ago in the handhelds section, off topic section and are growing old and pointless. and you are certainly adding nothing to the discussion.

But i am by no means upset, everyone is entitled to like and praise whatever they want, no need to get upset over personal preference.
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Old 08-01-2007, 11:09 PM   #64 (permalink)
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I agree with san fran. The iphone is more an ipod with a phone as a gimmicky side feature. Perfect example is my GF's digital camera. It has an mp3 player built right in but I don't see it in the mp3 section of any store? Its a camera! And the mp3 player is just a side feature that's mediocre at best. The latest iphone commercials are very heavy in showing its multimedia functions by showing the browser in action and how the music is organized....... but not as a phone because apple knows they will not win that market right now. Not with the current version of the iphone.
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Old 08-02-2007, 03:06 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by test54 View Post
not upset at all but calling people names like lemmings is an insult any way you say it, your making assumptions about someone you dont know it just stupid.

You rationale is poor at best, you quote second rate website and bad math. atleast if your want to make an arguement make sure you understand the numbers involved. You pick on Apple people following apple blindly then show yourself to be following RIM blindly. I think the thing that amazes me is you saying the Pearl is the best phone ever, no comment needed there as i guess its personal preference.

But honestly, all these arguments were make a months ago in the handhelds section, off topic section and are growing old and pointless. and you are certainly adding nothing to the discussion.

But i am by no means upset, everyone is entitled to like and praise whatever they want, no need to get upset over personal preference.
Sheesh.... if you are going to pick a fight, rant, flame and attempt to sound intelligent, at least get the spelling, punctuation and grammar in your posts correct.

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Old 08-02-2007, 10:10 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CaCHooKa Man View Post
since i installed simulsays my pearls felt a little sluggish
you can use the service with out the program.
once you create an account set it to transcribe and send text meassage or email. I love it and don't even use the program on my BB as I have unlim text and push email.
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:58 AM   #67 (permalink)
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San Fran,

thanks for editing your last post. anyways i did not intend to argue, just present the other side of the discussion. Debate is good for the brain, right?
well im off to work on my grammar and spelling. BTW - like your website but i use FF and it kills all the scripts.
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:57 AM   #68 (permalink)
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@ San Fran...

I don't really want to draw out what's turning into a difficult discussion. I am by no means an iPhone fanboy and the only intent of my original post was to point out that a lot of people here are glossing over some great things the iPhone offers - things that RIM could learn from to make an even better Blackberry.

I do want to take you to task on a few of the "facts" you have offered.

1) AT&T "activated" 146,000 iPhones - not sold. Some clarification on this number. Firstly the AT&T reporting period ended just 48 hours after the iPhone went on sale. If you take into consideration that stores didn't begin selling the phone until 6 pm - that means that there were only 30 hours worth of activations in their "reported number". That means they were just shy of activating 5000 phones an hour. You also must take into account that there were widespread activation problems for a lot of people and many people who were transferring numbers didn't get it done until 2-3 days after their purchase. None of these numbers would be included in this most recent AT&T report.

2) Apple also had a reporting period that ended very soon after the iPhone launched. Their execs reported 270,000 units were sold and that they anticipated 1 million phones by the end of September. Sure they could play a few games with those numbers, but keep in mind that in the world of Sarbanes Oxley and executive accountability - they must be very careful in what they say to the public. So for the most part - I doubt those numbers were very far off.

3) AT&T reported that they had never experienced so many activations in such a short period and they were happy with the launch. Apple also says they are pleased with the launch. So as far as you saying it was a HUGE disappointment to Apple and AT&T it's either A) not true or B) you have insider knowledge of both companies. The only people disappointed by the numbers were analysts who had no factual information to base their estimates on. The media picked up on analyst disappointment - not Apple or AT&Ts. In my own humble opinion on the reporting, I think the media grossly confused activations with sales.

This will be the last I speak of this because unfortunately, I feel the conversation is no longer constructive. As I mentioned above - my only point was there was certainly some positives that RIM should take a long hard look at to in the end - make a better product for all of us.
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Old 08-02-2007, 12:53 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb-mike View Post
@ San Fran...

I do want to take you to task on a few of the "facts" you have offered.

1) AT&T "activated" 146,000 iPhones - not sold. ... None of these numbers would be included in this most recent AT&T report.
Well my point in responding was not to talk about the distinction between activations, phones "sold" or whatever. And it was not to discuss sales figures, the accuracy of calculations nor the methods anyone used to reach a total.

I was simply mentioning numbers as an indication that Apple and AT&T did not meet the sales numbers desired, regardless if you call a sale an "activation" or whatever.

To be sure, if one wanted to digress into "taking me to task" on the numbers mentioned or other conclusory statements, we could go on and on about it and require that for each statement made we have to cite sources and post detailed information.

See below for one out of hundreds of articles discussing sales numbers [including your "activations" distinction].

But like you, I tire of this. Some Members saw this as an opportunity to challenge my assertions and statements when all I was doing was speaking in very general terms [albeit some of what I said was opinion, and on other statements I had evidence to support what I said].

I did not think that in the Pearl section, on a BB site, that people would "take me to task" on points offensive to them nor on aspects of my post they deemed important.

Whatever.

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July 25, 2007

The honeymoon might already be over between Apple and AT&T.

The two partners stood in stark contrast Wednesday evening following the results of Apple's third-quarter earnings, in which the company revealed it sold 270,000 iPhones in the first 30 hours the product was on sale. Earlier in the week, AT&T said it had activated only 146,000 iPhones during a similar period of time.

The innovative activation scheme that Apple and AT&T came up with for the iPhone launch made life much easier for many early iPhone customers, in that they could take their new purchase home and activate it from the comfort of their living room. It also made for a stressful weekend for those who ran into problems activating their iPhones.

Both Apple and AT&T initially said that a small number of customers ran into activation problems. AT&T said the "vast majority" of customers sailed through the activation process, and Apple said "a small percentage" of customers were affected by the activation delays.

But what's to account for the 124,000 iPhones that were sold by Apple but not activated? Apple and AT&T were not on the same page in the early hours after Wednesday's conference call.

"We activated 146,000 iPhones from 6 p.m. on Friday until midnight on Saturday," said Mark Siegel, an AT&T spokesman. "Apple's results are what they are."

When asked to explain the discrepancy, Siegel initially cited three factors. First, he said that Apple counted sales of iPhone accessories along with the sales of the actual iPhones themselves, citing a footnote in Apple's earnings release with that language.

Apple spokesman Steve Dowling, however, said that footnote refers only to revenue from iPhone accessories, not unit shipments. The 270,000 shipment figure in Apple's earnings release is all iPhones, and doesn't include headsets, cases or other accessories, he said.

AT&T's second explanation was that Apple's 270,000 iPhones included sales of iPhones through Apple's online store, which obviously couldn't have been activated the first weekend since Apple is quoting two- to four-week lead times for iPhones ordered online.

But Apple Chief Financial Officer Peter Oppenheimer specifically said on the conference call that the 270,000 units reflected only iPhones that were sold to AT&T for distribution through its network of retail stores and iPhones sold through Apple's retail stores. No iPhones sold through Apple's online store were included as part of that 270,000 unit figure, the company later confirmed. [SanFran: in other words, Apple's numbers included phones distributed to AT&T to be sold by AT&T. I read elsewhere that number was 100,000 units].

Procrastination and profiteers?

The third reason offered by AT&T for the gap between sales and activations was procrastination. "One of the reasons for the gap is that many, many people chose to activate their phones a day later. That seems pretty straight forward," Siegel said.

This is quite possible, but extremely difficult to quantify. Given the zeal of those who waited in line for an iPhone on Friday or bought one the following day, however, it's hard to imagine 100,000 or more of those customers waiting a day to activate their new toy.

But those who were hoping to flip their iPhones on eBay or Craigslist could account for the some of those who waited to activate, since many sellers did not receive the number of bids they had once hoped to receive in the first 30 hours the iPhone went on sale. Some might have returned unopened boxes without activating the iPhone when met with lackluster demand.

Siegel also pointed out that since AT&T sold out of its iPhone allotment very quickly on Saturday, the gap could reflect iPhones that were being shipped to AT&T stores for Sunday's business. Oppenheimer also seemed to think this was a possibility. "There would have been some inventory in transit to AT&T at the end of the quarter," he said on Apple's conference call. But neither company wanted to quantify how many iPhones were in transit.

The back-and-forth calls into question just how widespread those initial activation problems were among the iPhone early adopters. AT&T reiterated Wednesday that it thought the problem was confined to a small number of users.

"We said all along that the activation process worked extremely well. There were only a very small percentage of customers--in the low single digits to be exact--that had activation issues. It was a very, very small percentage," Siegel said Wednesday.

The exact number affected by the activation issues may never be quantified. When the problems first surfaced, Reuters quoted an anonymous source that said 2 percent of iPhone customers ran into activation problems. But AT&T wouldn't confirm that number Wednesday.

Assuming that's true, and each affected customer bought one iPhone, 2 percent of the total number of iPhone units sold in the first 30 hours would be 5,400 units, a far cry from the 124,000 gap between Apple's numbers and AT&T's figures. Assuming everyone affected by the activation problems bought two iPhones from an Apple store--which would be pretty much an impossible coincidence--that would account for 10,800 units out of commission on Friday night and Saturday.

So, the official explanation for the discrepancy appears to be that more than 100,000 iPhones were either in transit Saturday night or still sitting all alone in their boxes inside tech-savvy homes around America, waiting for activation.

While the activation problems might have angered new AT&T customers, it's unlikely that the problems will have a long-term effect on iPhone sales since they appeared to be cleared up very quickly, said Gene Munster, an analyst with Piper Jaffray. "It's a nuisance, but it doesn't change the fact that people still want the phone."

And while the 124,000-unit gap might be a source of stress between the two partners, Apple is being compensated for any problems that AT&T might have had, Munster said, referring to the revenue-sharing agreement between the two companies that was confirmed by Apple's Oppenheimer on Wednesday.

"They deserved a lot to put up with AT&T. But Apple's not a big enough part of their business to get them to fix their problems," Munster said.

Last edited by SanFrancisco : 08-02-2007 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 08-02-2007, 02:23 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Here is my $.02...

I am an honest to goodness iPod maniac. I love the thing now. I swore I would never get one, as Apple is a bunch of tree-hugging hippies. I use PC's, not Mac's. I eat meat. I drive a car with a V8 (Yes, it uses traditional dead dinosaur gas). Buying an iPod was not in my plans... I did and I won't go back.
That said, the iPhone, while neat, is a bad idea.

1.) It's battery is fixed.
2.) I have 50GB's of music on my iPod so WTF am I supposed to do with 8GB's?
3.) The thing looks like a sliding glass door with a face print on it when you touch it.
4.) Newer versions were planned before the original version was released... Sounds like a screwing to me.
5.) They are very PROUD of that thing! $600+! Haha!
6.) It is HUGE compared to my lil' Pearl
7.) You have to be an AT+T /Cingular/AT+T/WHATEVERISNEXT customer to even use it. I could rant about this for pages. I used AT+T for 7+ years... I won't go through another rough system transition with them.
8.) I am very happy with my 8100 Pearl.

I think that is enough to get my point across.
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