Prove What You Say - That 4GB MicroSDHC Chips Work With The Pearl - Page 2 - BlackBerryForums.com : Your Number One BlackBerry Community

SanFrancisco · 07-10-2007, 05:21 PM

Borg.... that White Paper is actually very good and easy to understand.

I knew about controller limitations years ago when I noticed that many devices I had [cameras and MP3 players] said that the max chip size was xxgb.

I recently bought some 4GB SD chips to use as drives and I had to buy special thumb drives that were SDHC compliant. My readers for other SD chips would not read the 4GB SDHC chips. And just to be curious, I tried them on all my devices, hoping I guess, but none of them could read the 4GB SDHC chips.

As I said in another thread, there's going to be a lot of disappointed people [and returns to retailers] when they find out they can't use any ol' chip simply because the chip looks the same as the one a device uses.

Great find, that paper.

SanFrancisco · 07-10-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sakman74

i'm surprised no 3rd party has come out with a bolt-on 80GB drive for berries.

that would probably make apple cry.

Actually, I have heard talk around the Net that RIM is developing the USB port so that one can hook up various peripherals to the phone's USB port . Not sure what that all will mean, it could have been bar talk by people who talk in bars.

I'm sure, however, we can imagine all the possibilities. Heck, the Pearl 2 specs, along with the ability to use 4GB chips, is damn amazing when you remember that the phone weighs less than a paltry McDonald's hamburger.

swifty2happy · **OS:** 4.6.0.266

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBGregPearl

I have 2Gb running on my 8100.

Works perfectly.

same havnt had any issues...

snowskier79 · 07-10-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theBorg

Ah! Found some more specific info in a SanDisk white paper, SDHC1.pdf. In short, 4GB cards won't work in a 2GB slot.

There is a file system incompatibility - specifically microSD uses a FAT 16 file system while microSDHC uses an SD FAT 32 file system.

Further, "4GB SDHC/miniSDHC/microSDHC cards can only work wiht SDHC/miniSDHC/microSDHC compatible host devices." That means the controller chip has to be microSDHC specific.

To further complicate the issue there are some non-compliant 4GB cards on the market - will not work with a true microHDSC device and may not work with a legacy microSD device.

Here's a link to the white paper and a FAQ, not for the non-techie:
http://www.sandisk.com/Assets/File/pdf/retail/SDHC1.pdf

That all being said, there must be by now a controller (host) that can translate between both standards. But it's not an issue of a firmware upgrade.

For the Pearls that supposedly do support 4GB, they are probably only getting access to 2GB.

Nice find Borg!

laurentio · 07-11-2007, 08:39 PM

you're right. it shows only 2gb. :(
sorry.

Jasper101 · 07-11-2007, 09:48 PM

So, we still have not completely resolved weather the 4GB card will work, there have been some people claim that they were able to get a 4gb card to work on the pearl. I am sceptical that they could actually get 4Gb of data on it, i suspect that it might seem to work but it will be limited to 2gb.

Some people at pinstack have been having a similar discussion, and they have claimed that it does in fact work?

4GB SD Card Support? - RIM Blackberry Forums - Pinstack.com

If some one wants to buy me a 4Gb micro SD card, I would gladly post back with my results

Cory Scheuer · **OS:** 4.6.1.199

exactly... John why dont you buy one and let us know what you think? lol we all trust your opinion, same with Jsanders! lol

maybe we should get a donation bin going for them, everyone puts in 2 cents then we'll have enough for both of them to get a 4gb card lol

rivviepop · 07-11-2007, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanFrancisco

Actually, I have heard talk around the Net that RIM is developing the USB port so that one can hook up various peripherals to the phone's USB port . Not sure what that all will mean, it could have been bar talk by people who talk in bars.

What they'd have to be doing is implementing a USB host in hardware, which is more expensive manufacturing than a USB client only (slave, whatever you want to call it). Most device makers avoid adding host capability (cameras, mp3 players, etc) to shave off $$$ and programming complexity.

Offtopic: the USB spec allows for client only, host only, or host+client; it's much cheaper per unit to build a client only USB hardware capability into a device. Interestingly this spec feature is pointed to as the reason USB beat Firewire in the marketplace -- the Firewire spec decrees that a device has to be both host and client, so the cost of manufacturing a device with Firewire capability is actually a lot more than a USB one. Most devices already have a very thin profit margin, so using a more expensive chip/circuit/code design is not a good business choice when you're looking at producing 2 million units.

blakeatl · **OS:** 4.5.0.102

Quote:

Originally Posted by sakman74

i'm surprised no 3rd party has come out with a bolt-on 80GB drive for berries.

that would probably make apple cry.

Lol.....I can see the mini iomega 160 gig drive hooked up to the Pearl all now.

rivviepop · 07-11-2007, 11:02 PM

For anyone who says their 4GB SDhc works (whether or not you see all the bits beyond 2GB in the OS):

Take a pic in macro mode on your camera of the inside back of the Pearl where the SD card fits in (maybe swing up the retaining door so we can see under it, too). This way people can look at your 'working' unit innards and compare it to the ones they have, maybe there's an obvious visual difference on these new units that work with 4GB SDhc.

Make sure you get the entire sticker too under the battery (blank out your IMEI and PIN for privacy!), since it includes manufacture codes which might prove useful -- for example a Motorola sticker includes the transceiver that is used, which people use to know how a device is made. I'm looking at my 8100 sticker right now and see a lot of codes which might tell us about the manufacture info (I don't - yet - know what they all mean).

JSanders · 07-12-2007, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory Scheuer

exactly... John why dont you buy one and let us know what you think? lol we all trust your opinion, same with Jsanders! lol

maybe we should get a donation bin going for them, everyone puts in 2 cents then we'll have enough for both of them to get a 4gb card lol

eh, I don't have a Pearl (wife does, but I can't get it out of her hands long enough to update the OS, let alone play with a 4gig card in it).

But thanks for the offer!

theBorg · 07-12-2007, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivviepop

What they'd have to be doing is implementing a USB host in hardware, which is more expensive manufacturing than a USB client only

Some of Broadcom's latest processors for mobile devices implement at least limited usb host capabilities (OTG) at 12 Mbps. Most notably the HSDPA baseband processor (p/n BCM2152). The list of features is sick! Ya just gotta love SoC integration.

Broadcom Corporation - BCM2152 - HSDPA/WCDMA/EDGE/GPRS/GSM Multimedia Baseband Processor

Point being the USB host capabilities on mobile devices is becoming more feasible with next-gen 3G processors.

Rivvie, I've got 3 guesses at your job: embedded design, systems guy or a hardware designer?

fritter · 07-12-2007, 07:52 AM

well my sandisk 4gb card came in last night and i installed it this morning and the first good sign was that it reconized the total space of 3.79gb so i formatted the card and it successfully formatted the card and i connected my pearl to the pc to see how big it would show as a mass storage drive and it show as a 4gb drive. Now for the specs of my pearl its 1st gen i bought the phone the release day from tmobile and i have the latest OS on it v4.2.1.101. hope this helps

7100simpleisbetter · 07-12-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fritter

well my sandisk 4gb card came in last night and i installed it this morning and the first good sign was that it reconized the total space of 3.79gb so i formatted the card and it successfully formatted the card and i connected my pearl to the pc to see how big it would show as a mass storage drive and it show as a 4gb drive. Now for the specs of my pearl its 1st gen i bought the phone the release day from tmobile and i have the latest OS on it v4.2.1.101. hope this helps

Although it shouldn't matter, can you tell what brand of card it is and where you bought it and the price?

fritter · 07-12-2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7100simpleisbetter

Although it shouldn't matter, can you tell what brand of card it is and where you bought it and the price?

amazon.com, $60, sandisk 4gb not sdhc though

7100simpleisbetter · 07-12-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fritter

amazon.com, $60, sandisk 4gb not sdhc though

I didn't think they made a non-sdhc 4gb, can you provide a link to what you purchased. For that price I might buy one but want to get the same version you have if it is working. I have a early model Pearl and 4.2.1.101 as well so I am hoping if I get the same order as you had then I will be in business.

Thanks for your posts.

SIB

TheBigNewt · 07-12-2007, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fritter

amazon.com, $60, sandisk 4gb not sdhc though

Very interesting in view of the rest of this thread. Of course the next step is to put about 3gb of music on the card in the Music folder and see if you can access/play it. We'll be waiting...........

John Clark · **OS:** 4.6.1.250

This is the only one on Amazon that I can see. The descriptions doesn't say SDHC but the picture shows SDHC.

Amazon.com: SanDisk 4GB MicroSD / Transflash with SD & Mini Adapter BULK Packaging: Electronics

buggle_96 · 07-12-2007, 12:25 PM

Lol sold out...I wonder what group of people did that. ;)

musiclee@verizon.net · 07-12-2007, 12:30 PM

EVERYONE....

FINALLY... IT WORKS IT WORKS IT WORKS

FINALLY... my 4GB Sandisk SDHC is recognized on my PEARL

AND NO IT"S NOT A HARDWARE THING like some people say.

DEFINITELY a firmware thing

Just load the latest (.101) on this site.

T-Mob has some catching up to do ...

and THE SADDEST THING IS that neither T-Mob nor Blackberry people could figure out why is was not working,,, and i spoke to lots of tech people from both (not sales guys)

SO GO OUT AND BUY A 4gb, it will see it, and read about 3.7 + gigs

John Clark · **OS:** 4.6.1.250

I knew this had to have some merit somehow. Great news!

SanFrancisco · 07-12-2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Clark

This is the only one on Amazon that I can see. The descriptions doesn't say SDHC but the picture shows SDHC.

Amazon.com: SanDisk 4GB MicroSD / Transflash with SD & Mini Adapter BULK Packaging: Electronics

I see that the SD adapter does not say it is an SDHC, that causes me to wonder if it will work on non SDHC devices.

Recall my post where I had bought some 4GB SDHC chips, NOT MicroSD, and they would not work in any of my devices that were not SDHC compliant.

So it seems that they should be pointing out to people that the pictured 4GB MicroSDHC chip will not work on devices that are not SDHC compliant. Their ad does not say anything about all this. And they also don't say it is an SDHC chip, simply show a pic that most people won't catch. Odd.

And as to other post, I am not aware that there are any non-SDHC 4GB chips. I thought that exceeding 2Gb kicked chips into the SDHC category.

John Clark · **OS:** 4.6.1.250

All that matters is that the SDHC card will work in the Pearl with 4.2.1.101 OS. That seems to be the bottom line (If the above poster can load it up and still accesss everything.)

SanFrancisco · 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musiclee@verizon.net

EVERYONE....

FINALLY... IT WORKS IT WORKS IT WORKS

FINALLY... my 4GB Sandisk SDHC is recognized on my PEARL

AND NO IT"S NOT A HARDWARE THING like some people say.

DEFINITELY a firmware thing

Just load the latest (.101) on this site.

T-Mob has some catching up to do ...

and THE SADDEST THING IS that neither T-Mob nor Blackberry people could figure out why is was not working,,, and i spoke to lots of tech people from both (not sales guys)

SO GO OUT AND BUY A 4gb, it will see it, and read about 3.7 + gigs

Well this confirms that RIM has their heads up their ..... Why on earth they would not market that the Pearl is 4GB capable is beyond me.

I dunno, but isn't this a significant feature, to have 4GB capability?

I don't get it. If nothing else, until I asked the question, seems no one on the forums talked about it much either.

Am I the only one who thinks this is BIG news?

SanFrancisco · 07-12-2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Clark

All that matters is that the SDHC card will work in the Pearl with 4.2.1.101 OS. That seems to be the bottom line (If the above poster can load it up and still accesss everything.)

I was just making a side comment about how the ad is unclear. Plus members in here need to know there is a difference, that you just can't pop these chips into any device.

Plus I can see members posting "Hey it works on my Pearl, but not on my camera or MP3 player. Why? Please help, I am do depressed, need help now."

theBorg · 07-12-2007, 01:08 PM

There are non-SDHC compliant 4GB chips. They were manufactured before the SDHC standard was ratified. SanDisk has a discussion on it in the white paper I posted. They say compatibility is not guaranteed for SD or SDHC.

SanFrancisco · 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theBorg

There are non-SDHC compliant 4GB chips. They were manufactured before the SDHC standard was ratified. SanDisk has a discussion on it in the white paper I posted. They say compatibility is not guaranteed for SD or SDHC.

Interesting. I have not seen them. But I don't know I'd risk getting one since I think most of my devices, even 2006-made stuff, are limited to 2GB.

Nice that the Pearl is 4GB capable. Surprising, but nice.

buggle_96 · 07-12-2007, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theBorg

There are non-SDHC compliant 4GB chips. They were manufactured before the SDHC standard was ratified. SanDisk has a discussion on it in the white paper I posted. They say compatibility is not guaranteed for SD or SDHC.

So what is it that is working for everyone? Is it the actually sdhc 4gb chips or are they odd non-sdhc 4gb chips which no one knows about? Also does anyone have a non-Sandisk 4gb chip working in there pearl?

Placed an order for my pearl last night BTW

buggle_96 · 07-12-2007, 01:36 PM

And on top of that if 4gb SDHC chips are working will 8gb chips work?

theBorg · 07-12-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggle_96

And on top of that if 4gb SDHC chips are working will 8gb chips work?

Probably. The barrier is past the 2GB boundary where the standard switches from SD to SDHC. If the driver in the BB can handle 4GB SDHC then it should be able to handle 8GB SDHC.

rivviepop · 07-12-2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theBorg

Rivvie, I've got 3 guesses at your job: embedded design, systems guy or a hardware designer?

haha, I'm a systems engineer. good guessing!

(I've even done some embedded work for one project, we built our own hardware and OS to monitor natural gas generators in the field)

(normally I do OS-level systems stuff, primarily linux/unix)

Micosina · 03:13 PM

i tested it when my buddy was looking for a new MicroSD for his camera then i said let me test it on my BB and see if works.

On Canada at BB website when i was looking around at informations it say's

Expandable memory ilimited depends (Card memory size).

And for me if this work to the first time it will work all days. so im waiting to buy one for me.

And i buyed mine in May of 2007. if u need everything detailed.
I go to TIM store and ask the guy if there is a new upgraded and if can upgrade to me.
I know nothing about how to upgrade and such but the 4 GB work on my pearl.
All my old OS versions worked fine with my pearl but im always take my BB to the TIM store to upgrade.
You should try it, and test with the 4gb card of your friends

musiclee@verizon.net · 07-12-2007, 04:01 PM

micosina,

you cannot goto the store to upgrade your phone,

they will not have the latest firware to make it compatible with 4gb cards

you have to download it from this site,

the directions are VERY, VERY clear

if you cant follow those simple instructions to upgrade your phone, then i don't know how you go about navigating/understanding your Pearl...

JSanders · 07-12-2007, 04:17 PM

Micosina, here are links that explain step by step what is needed to upgrade.

How do I upgrade the OS on my BlackBerry? - BlackBerryFAQ
http://www.blackberryforums.com/gene...2-1-101-a.html

Good luck.

theBorg · 07-12-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanFrancisco

there's going to be a lot of disappointed people [and returns to retailers] when they find out they can't use any ol' chip simply because the chip looks the same as the one a device uses.

Great find, that paper.

Yeah, I'm surprised that they used the same form factor - or at least didn't throw on a mechanical key. Incompatibility in the same form factor. Odd.

I guess future hosts will be able to differentiate and adjust accordingly.