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Old 06-21-2007, 07:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Its the BB Curve 8300 capable for PUSH EMAIL

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This question may seem basic but I'm a newbie to BB and before asking the question I made a search and didn't find an answer.

Is the BB curve capable of Push email with BIS or BES???


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Old 06-21-2007, 07:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Yes. All BlackBerry devices support push mail.
Only push mail, actually.
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by penguin3107 View Post
Yes. All BlackBerry devices support push mail.
Only push mail, actually.
Thanks Penguin,
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
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for true push email on BIS, you need to use a GMAIL acct. i forward all my email to my gmail acct, and it filters out all my spam mail..... i also get my email on my BB lots of times before it even shows up in my gmail inbox.
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Old 06-22-2007, 05:42 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CableGuy711 View Post
for true push email on BIS, you need to use a GMAIL acct.
Absolute nonsense.
Any e-mail set up on BIS or BES is "true push e-mail". POP, IMAP, webmail, iNotes, any of them.

GMail now offers tighter integration using BIS 2.3 and added features such as two-way message reconciliation (including deletions)... but you most certainly do not NEED Gmail in order to have push email.
In fact, Yahoo mail actually offers more features and better integration than GMail, since it now includes reconciliation of read/unread marks as well.

Your comments about GMail are misleading at best.
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Old 06-22-2007, 05:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CableGuy711 View Post
for true push email on BIS, you need to use a GMAIL acct. i forward all my email to my gmail acct, and it filters out all my spam mail..... i also get my email on my BB lots of times before it even shows up in my gmail inbox.
WTF!

Not so.
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Old 06-22-2007, 08:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguin3107 View Post
Absolute nonsense.
Any e-mail set up on BIS or BES is "true push e-mail". POP, IMAP, webmail, iNotes, any of them.

GMail now offers tighter integration using BIS 2.3 and added features such as two-way message reconciliation (including deletions)... but you most certainly do not NEED Gmail in order to have push email.
In fact, Yahoo mail actually offers more features and better integration than GMail, since it now includes reconciliation of read/unread marks as well.

Your comments about GMail are misleading at best.
Actually, your comment about any email being push email is misleading. Email is always pushed from the Blackberry servers, which serve as middleware in the systems. Those servers push whatever they collect from other accounts, be they POP, IMAP, Exchange OWA, etc... However, the Blackberry servers check those accounts on a schedule, typically every 15 minutes or so. So yes, it's push email from the BB servers to the carrier and then to the handheld. But the thousands of email systems out there do not push to the BB servers (except GMail and Yahoo). The BB servers must pull the mail from those servers. The difference is near instantaneous delivery compared to up to a 15 minute transit time.

Try it! Send a message to your BB carrier or GMAIL account and CC the same message to a POP account you've defined in BIS.

You can easily work around the delay by auto-forwarding mail from the POP account to either your BB carrier account or to a GMail or Yahoo account. That will give you near instantaneous delivery.

The BIS mail integration is well documented in Rim's service documentation available on their support site.

The way you choose to have your mail delivered is your choice...and there are plenty of choices!!!
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Old 06-22-2007, 09:03 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachBumSteve View Post
Actually, your comment about any email being push email is misleading. Email is always pushed from the Blackberry servers, which serve as middleware in the systems. Those servers push whatever they collect from other accounts, be they POP, IMAP, Exchange OWA, etc... However, the Blackberry servers check those accounts on a schedule, typically every 15 minutes or so. So yes, it's push email from the BB servers to the carrier and then to the handheld. But the thousands of email systems out there do not push to the BB servers (except GMail and Yahoo). The BB servers must pull the mail from those servers. The difference is near instantaneous delivery compared to up to a 15 minute transit time.
What about IMAP servers that support IDLE? It pushes directly to my desktop now, will it not push to BIS as well?

How will this implementation (IMAP -> BIS -> BB) work? How will it be different than this "push" via Gmail or Yahoo?
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Old 06-22-2007, 09:47 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachBumSteve View Post
Actually, your comment about any email being push email is misleading. .
Sorry BeachBumSteve, but you're basically wrong here.
You describe the process in fairly good detail, however you are not accurate in your assesment of what actually determines whether message delivery is considered PUSH or PULL.

PUSH mail has NOTHING to do with timing, or the process of BIS pulling mail from a mail server. PUSH is determined by one thing... the device's responsibility in the mail delivery process.

I've spoken about this in great detail in this forum before... so I'm not going to elaborate very much in this thread.
Suffice to say... the BlackBerry mail system is always PUSH, no matter what... because the device itself NEVER asks for a mail delivery to occur.
That is the only thing that determines whether a system is push mail or not.

Does BIS sometimes have a delay in message delivery to the device? Sure, it does depending on the mail server being linked.
Does this delay mean the system is not "true push mail"? No, it doesn't.

As far as me being misleading in some way... I don't think so.
Your assessment of being misleading is simply your misunderstanding of what push mail really is.
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Old 06-22-2007, 09:51 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PabloTX View Post
What about IMAP servers that support IDLE? It pushes directly to my desktop now, will it not push to BIS as well?

How will this implementation (IMAP -> BIS -> BB) work? How will it be different than this "push" via Gmail or Yahoo?
Based on the limited testing I did several months back, I don't believe IMAP with IDLE command support is pushed. The testing was done with FastMail servers. You might want to test again with your server.
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Old 06-22-2007, 10:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachBumSteve View Post
Based on the limited testing I did several months back, I don't believe IMAP with IDLE command support is pushed. The testing was done with FastMail servers. You might want to test again with your server.
From my understanding of the steps in this thread, the BIS will poll at 15 minute intervals, but if mail is pushed to it from another source, it will immediately push that email to the BB. Is this not correct?

If this is correct, then services like FastMail (which I have used) and Everyone.net (who I currently use) should push mail nearly instantaneously to the BIS, and in turn the BB. I had no problem with Push email on these services on my Treo using Chatter.
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Old 06-22-2007, 10:06 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguin3107 View Post
Sorry BeachBumSteve, but you're basically wrong here.
You describe the process in fairly good detail, however you are not accurate in your assesment of what actually determines whether message delivery is considered PUSH or PULL.

PUSH mail has NOTHING to do with timing, or the process of BIS pulling mail from a mail server. PUSH is determined by one thing... the device's responsibility in the mail delivery process.

I've spoken about this in great detail in this forum before... so I'm not going to elaborate very much in this thread.
Suffice to say... the BlackBerry mail system is always PUSH, no matter what... because the device itself NEVER asks for a mail delivery to occur.
That is the only thing that determines whether a system is push mail or not.

Does BIS sometimes have a delay in message delivery to the device? Sure, it does depending on the mail server being linked.
Does this delay mean the system is not "true push mail"? No, it doesn't.

As far as me being misleading in some way... I don't think so.
Your assessment of being misleading is simply your misunderstanding of what push mail really is.
Well, I'm not going to get into a protracted argument over semantics. You are correct in that the BB device is a push only device, actually from the point where the BB server gets involved, it is a push system. The system AS A WHOLE is not. There are multiple points of transfer in any email system...all it takes is one of those to be a pull device to make the entire process APPEAR to be a pull system to the end user.

For those interested, you might want to read "BlackBerry Internet Service Feature and Technical Overview" found on Rim's support site. It's a good explanation of the message delivery process.
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Old 06-22-2007, 10:07 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PabloTX View Post
From my understanding of the steps in this thread, the BIS will poll at 15 minute intervals, but if mail is pushed to it from another source, it will immediately push that email to the BB. Is this not correct?

If this is correct, then services like FastMail (which I have used) and Everyone.net (who I currently use) should push mail nearly instantaneously to the BIS, and in turn the BB. I had no problem with Push email on these services on my Treo using Chatter.
The only instantaneous push you can get on BIS is the address that comes with your BIS account (ie [email address]). Gmail and yahoo offer virtually instant push, and everything else is in the 12-15 min polling category.
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Old 06-22-2007, 11:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks. I'm porting over this afternoon and picking up a pair of Curves (me and my wife), so I can't get my hands dirty right now and am trying to do as much research as I can in order to shorten the learning curve.

What about sending via IMAP accounts? Is it instantaneous, or does it wait until the next scheduled poll time to send?
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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It's sent immediately.
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:37 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Thanks.
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Old 06-22-2007, 02:11 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguin3107 View Post
Absolute nonsense.
Any e-mail set up on BIS or BES is "true push e-mail". POP, IMAP, webmail, iNotes, any of them.

GMail now offers tighter integration using BIS 2.3 and added features such as two-way message reconciliation (including deletions)... but you most certainly do not NEED Gmail in order to have push email.
In fact, Yahoo mail actually offers more features and better integration than GMail, since it now includes reconciliation of read/unread marks as well.

Your comments about GMail are misleading at best.
Sorry for getting your panties in a bunch.

Waiting 15mins for the SERVER to PULL email THEN push it to my device is not what I consider Push email. Push email should be INSTANT. Ok so I was wrong on the TECHNICAL explanation of PUSH email.

YES yahoo works, but last I checked it was a PAID service to POP email from Yahoo(has this changed??) Gmail is free.........

POP'ing mail from other email sources has that terrible 15min delay, which is not acceptable.

Last edited by CableGuy711 : 06-22-2007 at 02:19 PM. Reason: my spelling sucks
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Old 06-22-2007, 02:23 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachBumSteve View Post
Actually, your comment about any email being push email is misleading. Email is always pushed from the Blackberry servers, which serve as middleware in the systems. Those servers push whatever they collect from other accounts, be they POP, IMAP, Exchange OWA, etc... However, the Blackberry servers check those accounts on a schedule, typically every 15 minutes or so. So yes, it's push email from the BB servers to the carrier and then to the handheld. But the thousands of email systems out there do not push to the BB servers (except GMail and Yahoo). The BB servers must pull the mail from those servers. The difference is near instantaneous delivery compared to up to a 15 minute transit time.

Try it! Send a message to your BB carrier or GMAIL account and CC the same message to a POP account you've defined in BIS.

You can easily work around the delay by auto-forwarding mail from the POP account to either your BB carrier account or to a GMail or Yahoo account. That will give you near instantaneous delivery.

The BIS mail integration is well documented in Rim's service documentation available on their support site.

The way you choose to have your mail delivered is your choice...and there are plenty of choices!!!

This is exactly the way I was thinking....Oh well....Guess they want people to suffer the 15min poll time.
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Old 06-22-2007, 02:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Old 06-22-2007, 02:46 PM   #20 (permalink)
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It's 15 minutes so lesser servers don't have to worry about being hammered. POP and IMAP are not puch protocols. No matter what there has to be a pull involved. So if you're going to make it appear instant, it has to be continuously polling, which with a few accounts being polled, will essentially be like a DoS attack. Replicate this a few million times on RIMs side and you have one massive bottleneck issue where no one gets anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CableGuy711 View Post
Waiting 15mins for the SERVER to PULL email THEN push it to my device is not what I consider Push email. Push email should be INSTANT. Ok so I was wrong on the TECHNICAL explanation of PUSH email.
Then what you consider push mail is wrong. Push email simply refers to the message being forced from the server to the client with no request from the client. It has nothing to do with instant content.

As I said, delivery protocols are pull based. Even IMAPs pseudo push ability is just using a heart beat pull cycle (ie it requests, waits a while, then requests again). Unless you plan to completely redesign 50 years of e-mail protocols, this is how it is.
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