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Old 09-12-2009, 12:05 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Getting UMA in places with free wi-fi

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I am unable to get UMA even when I am connected to the free Wi-Fi in public places. I get a W006.3 error message. I can get UMA at home and work with no problem.

Is there some setting I need to change on my phone?.

Thanks
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Old 09-12-2009, 06:28 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Wirelessly posted (overwhelmingly stressed)

I believe that in order for uma to work they would need an appropriate wireless router. I may be wrong but that is what comes to mind first
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Old 09-12-2009, 06:30 AM   #3 (permalink)
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There are many places that don't support/allow UMA even through you can get WiFi. Panera Bread is one of them. I recall that someone (John Clark?) created a thread about public spots where UMA did and didn't work, but have no idea where the thread is.
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Old 09-12-2009, 08:21 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info.

If anyone knows where that thread is pls let me know.
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Old 09-12-2009, 08:28 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg60611 View Post
If anyone knows where that thread is pls let me know.
This website has a 'Search' feature.
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Old 09-12-2009, 09:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguin3107 View Post
This website has a 'Search' feature.
Who knew. I search "Panera" and got this..

Common Wifi Hotspots (other than TMo) that work/don't work with 8320
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Old 09-14-2009, 04:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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It is not so much a matter of supporting UMA as it is not interfering with a user/customer's IP traffic. If UMA does not work on a given WiFi connection there is likely traffic blocking/restriction going on.

For UMA to work, the phone needs to be able to speak isakmp/ipsec to T-Mo's (or your carrier's) central server and then after the IPSec negotiation (UDP port 500) and establishment, needs outbound UDP port 4500 and TCP port 443 to be open. It looks at a very quick glance that 443 is the control/signaling/data channel (SSL encrypted) while 4500 is used for the audio/voice traffic (IPSec encrypted); UDP 500 is the isakmp/ipsec negotiation.

This was validated on a NAT boundary/router, so on a non-NAT setup your 4500 port may vary. However for free/open APs, NAT is the rule, not the exception. Even for pay APs, NAT is the rule.

The AP provider has to go to some length to make UMA *not* work. He has to restrict outbound traffic flow (sadly becoming more common). In the case of airports or hotels and the like, once you authenticate (web browser) to their network system, they should then allow the free flow of normal network traffic. They should be expecting their (corporate traveling) customers to be using IPSec and SSL tunnels and thus to make the customers happy by NOT blocking such.

Something interesting to note is that if you attach to a Access Point and notice (without using your browser or any other application) that you keep getting spurious certificate errors, somebody (the AP owner most likely) is force redirecting port 443 (transparent proxy). If you accept the invalid certificate, then your control/signaling/data traffic is subject to third-party monitoring. *Possibly* the audio channel is also compromised. I do not know the certificate/key relationship between the 443 and 500/4500 traffic.

Enjoy,

Woody

Last edited by woodyofid : 09-14-2009 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Fix typo
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Woody, I contacted my technical rep at Tmobile here is his response:
Regardless of the Wi-Fi security, the voice is still GSM encrypted inside an IPSec tunnel. The voice is at least as secure as a regular call. In my opinion, it is more secure.
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I have been trying the free wi-fi in several public places and it says its connected when you look at the connection magager. However, the wifi symbol is still grayed out. Then when I look under wi-fi tools it says UMA connection available but under that it has an "x" by connected.

Is this a phone problem or a router issue? Can anyone help?
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg60611 View Post
I have been trying the free wi-fi in several public places and it says its connected when you look at the connection magager. However, the wifi symbol is still grayed out. Then when I look under wi-fi tools it says UMA connection available but under that it has an "x" by connected.

Is this a phone problem or a router issue? Can anyone help?
In the Connection Manager you have a check to the right of "WiFi"? The "Mobile Network" or top line check indicates cell-tower EDGE/GSM service.

In the Connection Manager does the WiFI indicate the access point name? That should also be indicated on the main screen where it normally says "T-Mobile". When I am at home, the main screen says "T-Mobile - Wizardofid" where Wizardofid is my AP SSID/wireless profile name.

There are actually three levels of 'connection' for UMA to function.

1) AP (wireless) association (establish link layer and local IP address; Options -> Status will tell you if you have and what the IP address is)
2) IPSec/SSL data links to T-Mobile server (this is what lights up the "WiFi" symbol I think; the phone has successfully 'called home' via IP)
3) GSM tunnel (see previous post above) within the IPSec/SSL tunnels for the actual UMA service (indicated by the UMA symbol)

Do you explicitly pay for UMA service (T-Mo's market name 'HotSpot')? On T-Mobile it is an additional $10 (if I remember correctly) on top of your regular plan. Generic data service (ability to browse the web at large and use non-T-Mobile IP enabled applications) is an additional charge on top of UMA but is not required for UMA.

Last edited by woodyofid : 09-16-2009 at 12:37 PM. Reason: Added Options -> Status comment
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Old 09-16-2009, 06:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yes- wifi is checked in the connection maganger, the top bar on the home screen has the name of the wifi network I am trying to connect to and I explicitly pay for hotspot service.

If it says UMA available, should I be able to connect? I apologize if I'm being naiive about the topic and I appreciate the help!
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Old 09-16-2009, 06:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg60611 View Post
Yes- wifi is checked in the connection maganger, the top bar on the home screen has the name of the wifi network I am trying to connect to and I explicitly pay for hotspot service.

If it says UMA available, should I be able to connect? I apologize if I'm being naiive about the topic and I appreciate the help!
Options -> Status. Do you have an IP address?
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Old 09-16-2009, 06:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
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When I am trying to connect to the public wifi or when I am home on my wifi?

I have an IP address when I am on my home wifi but I have never checked when I am trying to connect outside of my home.
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Old 09-16-2009, 07:02 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Let's be clear. At home, does WiFi/UMA work as you expect?
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Old 09-16-2009, 07:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
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yes
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:13 AM   #16 (permalink)
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At the public spot in question, check to see if you have an IP address. If you do, then they are likely blocking the necessary outbound (UDP) ports. If you dont then, their DHCP service is broken or at least does not like you(r device).

Are you sure that the public place(s) in question do not require some type of web based authentication (or agreement to terms of service) in order to allow your traffic to flow?
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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This past weekend while visiting my brother, I noticed I had no signal what-so-ever. He said that this was normal in his area, where all carriers either don't have a signal or very weak at best. So I immediately did a search for WiFi networks and found that 2 were available (one open, one secured). So happens the open WiFi network was his own linksys router. After a few seconds, the phone established a network connection (UMA), and I was able to make/receive calls, email and text messages. He was amazed that I was able to get a cell connection (through his router), when normally, there isn't any cell access in his area (on any carrier). That's my one and only UMA connection story...and it works!
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Was able to get UMA in T-Mobile Hotspot

Yesterday I was in a T-Mobile hotspot and easily got a UMA connection. I guess this means that it's router/phone connection issue in the places I can't connect and nothing I can do about it.

Thanks for all of your help.
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