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Old 04-08-2008, 08:05 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I just dont see this as a good move.
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Old 04-08-2008, 08:13 PM   #22 (permalink)
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it's barely different than previous moves. all devices carry an MSRP up to 200% of the sticker price that you see. so your Curve 8320 had an MSRP of $600-700. was it a bad move when you bought it for $100-200? no. it's honestly not going to be that much different. i'd be very surprised if the 9000 hits the streets at a price you'd consider unreasonable. the iPhone sold in record numbers with a perceived unreasonable price point.
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Old 04-08-2008, 08:17 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I am guessing not cdma .
I will wait.
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Old 04-08-2008, 08:41 PM   #24 (permalink)
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i didnt pay 200 for my phone's. The 2 curves we brought costed 359 each and our 8800's were 450 each. The 8800 was very expensive IMO. The iphone is priced at 299 and 399 correct? i think the 3G iphone was said to be priced at or close to 500 so why would RIM go to 600-700 with the economy the way it is and company's looking to spend less. I just dont think its a good move but my thought dont mean much in the grand scheme of things. I will probably wait for a price drop or wait for the iphone to get better with email and come to TMOBILE which ever comes first.
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Old 04-08-2008, 09:01 PM   #25 (permalink)
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the iPhone at launch was $500 and $600, which is the exact lower and upper end of the estimated 9000 cost. keep in mind that companies get discounts based on volume, AND they can get $200 back PER LINE when they use tradeups. means the device is $300 to $400, now well within the cost of most new BlackBerrys.
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Old 04-08-2008, 09:12 PM   #26 (permalink)
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While I would like to step up to 3G and a faster processor, my 8820 has GPS & WiFi an retails for $500 so unless there is one super freakin good reason for double that price RIM had better get the accountants on the job and price it better.

In this economy and the business world its not all about who is best in breed (RIM is) but who has mass market appeal (Apple has it). I won't bite until specs are fully released.

Last edited by PPCMD : 04-09-2008 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 04-08-2008, 09:20 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamcrn View Post
i didnt pay 200 for my phone's. The 2 curves we brought costed 359 each and our 8800's were 450 each. The 8800 was very expensive IMO. The iphone is priced at 299 and 399 correct? i think the 3G iphone was said to be priced at or close to 500 so why would RIM go to 600-700 with the economy the way it is and company's looking to spend less. I just dont think its a good move but my thought dont mean much in the grand scheme of things. I will probably wait for a price drop or wait for the iphone to get better with email and come to TMOBILE which ever comes first.
The iPhone sells for $399 and $499 brand new right now; no discount, and no rebate available.

The cost of the 9000 is pure speculation at this point as well (which was even said in the podcast). There is no way it is going to be put on shelves with a price point of $900, even at full retail. I will believe $550-$650 full retail, and $300-$400 2 year agreement price for the first 6 months to a year, and it will get progressively lower over time, as they always do.

Look at a device like the At&t Tilt. Hold on, put away your WM burning equipment.... The Tilt is a device PACKED to the gills with "stuff." WiFi, HSDPA/3G, GPS, Media player, customizable to the "Nth" degree, 3mp camera, video recording, etc, etc. With all that stuff, it retails with no contract for $550.

I don't know where these guys heard this rumor, but from a simple business standpoint, RIM would be ass stupid to retail the device for that much. With true competition like the numerous WM devices that can be had for less, but can offer most of the same features, if not more, and with speculative competition like the 3G iPhone, it would be their suicide device. Just look at Sony and their Playstation 3. Sony was the dominating force with their PS1 and PS2, so when it came time to release their PS3, they did so with advanced technology and a HUGE price tag that they obviously thought their track record would overcome. Reality is that the thing is just now starting to pick up in sales, it has received numerous price drops, and it took a year and a half to actually get to this point. I know it is a different market and a different type of product, but its the concept behind the comparison that I am getting at.

RIM will feel the effectives very negatively if they should price it that high. I just can't see it though. It doesn't offer 'that' many new features over the Curve, and you can by a Curve (8310) at RETAIL for about $375, 6 months after its release. Even when it was new technology and labeled the 8300, it still wasn't even remotely close to $900-$1000.

I guess it might happen, but I will doubt it until the day I see it; which hopefully I won't, because I want one badly, lol.
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:30 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I do recall when first suretype 7100 appeared I paid $750 retail for it because I really really wanted to have that device. It was in 2005.
No, I was not taken advantage of by some eBay auction. I went to retail store of a major wireless carrier and paid sticker price for the 7100 they were selling.

I don't see $1000 MSRP as something extraordinary for 9000 in 2008 and may pay that much when that device appears at stores.

Many people don't realize how much of discount from device cost they get when they sign for three year service contract with wireless carrier. Of course, it is not true discount but rather credit given for 3 years term and recouped through montly fees.

Last edited by Berry One : 04-09-2008 at 06:41 AM. Reason: Explained that $750 for 7100 was wireless carrier MSRP
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Old 04-09-2008, 07:11 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith_Apprentice View Post
i second what Jibi says. The price wont be the $1000. That will be full retail, so those of you who cant get an upgrade might want to start counting pennies now. The 9000 will be a great device based on the specs, and to me, worth every penny. I also will have one on launch day
For that price, it would be cheaper just to add another line and pay the early termination fee..

I too listened to the BGR mp3 this morning. I have such mixed feelings. I am one of those impulsive buyers that if I think it's neat I buy it. I have my 8830 and have never even entertained the thought of switching carriers, but now... I am actually thinking about moving over to at&t. I LOVE verizon, problem is, they get phones almost 6months to a year after everyone else does. My biggest complaint was the slow data speeds on at&t... but 3g. Now I am stuck on should I even bother getting the curve? (I really want it for it's multimedia capabilities). :(
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Old 04-09-2008, 07:21 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jibi View Post
Jibi: BlackBerry.
BG: iPhone.
Jibi: Apple sucks.
BG: RIM sucks.
Jibi: RIM needs some improvement.
BG: RIM needs a lot of improvement.
Jibi: Apple has no clue, but may be taking a step in the right direction.
BG: Apple has no clue, but will dominate the world.
Jibi: I really like RIM, but they are morons sometimes. Be sure to edit that out, k?
BG: Sure... *snickers*
Jibi: I love BlackBerry.
BG: I love iPhone.
Jibi: Stay tuned for the next episode.
BG: Peace out b*tches...

That's about it.

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Old 04-09-2008, 07:25 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Arrow The problem RIM has...

the problem that RIM mas is the PERCEPTION that the iPhone in peoples eyes (and wallets) is supposed to cost more...


THESE SUMS IT ALL UP:

Making an iMpression - TrustedReviews By: Edward Chester

Quote:
In case you hadn't worked it out yet, the point I'm trying to make is the key to the iPhone's success and, so far, the failure of other devices, is not its features and hardware but its software. Everything it can do it does with aplomb, so much so that it's literally changing the way people think about their mobile life. No longer do you use your phone to browse the web as a last resort, it's now your primary method. You don't have to fuss about with fiddly extra software or adding and removing memory cards to get music on your device (not to mention struggle through umpteen menus to get to the media player), it's now just a seamless experience - apart from the limited capacity, why would you ever need a seperate mp3 player?


The point is, Apple has proved that first and foremost people want a product that works. Having six key features that are useful everyday and easy to use - calling, SMS, web, email, video, and audio - beats having 10, 20, 30, three million features that are a pain to find or cumbersome to use.

As for the competition, well, they need to take onboard the lessons taught by Apple and use the same way of designing - thinking about the task before the solution - before just tacking on more and more features. Then maybe they will come up with devices we all actually want to use.

Last edited by serrano_yejo : 04-09-2008 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 04-09-2008, 07:27 AM   #32 (permalink)
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^^^ agree.
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Old 04-09-2008, 07:35 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Is good to have this discussion... I love my 8320 but the fact that i have to remove the battery every time i wanna change the micro is very tiresome... and to play a song u gotta go thru soooo many steps....
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:18 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I agree the Ipod touch /Iphone's Interface to move from each application with ease is whats so impressive as well as the presentation. If they would only Adopt a more Rim like Email approach and not be exclusive to ATT all would be good with the world. I am surprised that Tmobile didnt jump @ getting the Ipod with tmobile's commercials and target audience seeming to be perfect for the Iphone.
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Old 04-09-2008, 03:22 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berry One View Post
I do recall when first suretype 7100 appeared I paid $750 retail for it because I really really wanted to have that device. It was in 2005.
No, I was not taken advantage of by some eBay auction. I went to retail store of a major wireless carrier and paid sticker price for the 7100 they were selling.

I don't see $1000 MSRP as something extraordinary for 9000 in 2008 and may pay that much when that device appears at stores.

Many people don't realize how much of discount from device cost they get when they sign for three year service contract with wireless carrier. Of course, it is not true discount but rather credit given for 3 years term and recouped through montly fees.
It was newer technology in 2005 though. There is nothing groundbreaking or new about the features that come in the 9000 to warrant a $900-$1000 price tag. Like I said in my post, look at a device like the At&t Tilt that has all the same bells and whistles, PLUS a touch screen, and retails for $550ish. Even the iPhone with its amazing touch screen, and slew of technological evolutions, never tried to venture in pricing territory that high. It would really be a huge mistake to retail the 9000 for that much money, plain and simple.

Think about it, if a phone with a retail price of $500-$700 costs $300-$400 to buy after 2 year activation discount and rebate, how much would the $9000 cost to the consumer; $500, $600 after rebate?

Yes, the iPhone was originally sold at $599 for the 8gb model on its day of release. Yes, people bought it in droves. The 9000 is NOT the iPhone however and brings no new evolution of technology, or even new features period, to the table.

Docs to Go? Its not even the full version, and if it is, Palms have had it for years, and Windows Mobile PPC phones come with the REAL MS Office Mobile.
3G? My wife's $100 flip phone has that too.
WiFi? Yeah, again, this is not a new step in technology for mobile devices. For examples sake, look at the Curve 8320; it has WiFi and can be bought after rebates for around $100-$150.
GPS? Come on now...
Media Player? <sigh>

The 9000 so far looks to be nothing more than a repacked Curve wrapped with an 8800 series keyboard and has the addition of 3G for the first time in a GSM BlackBerry. How can that even remotely come close to selling for that high of a price?

I have another question. Why does everyone feel the need to compare EVERYTHING to the damned iPhone. Yes, I did it, but I did it on price, and technology; I didn't do it with the tone that everyone wants, needs, or buys a phone based on how it compares to the iPhone. I also don't know why everyone insists that RIM needs to release a product that directly compares to the iPhone. BlackBerrys have always been business tools first and foremost, while the iPhone is a consumer product through and through. Do you think the government and large corporations that depend on the way a BlackBerry works are every going to up and switch to the iPhone because it has a cool GUI/touch interface and great media capabilites? Absolutely not... It wasn't even until the release of the Pearl and the Curve that RIM really tried to market to the consumer sector anyway. Sure, they may want to work on a consumer oriented device to compete more first handedly with the iPhone, but why does everyone assume the 9000 is going to be it?

Also, I have owned an iPhone. I used one for 6 months before coming BACK to BlackBerry. Why?

-The iPhone can't do MMS.
-Touch for EVERYTHING isn't always good. Even Palm and Windows PPC -devices don't need to utilize the touch screen for everything.
-The keyboard, in a word, sucks.
-No MMS.
-One attachment per new email is awful.
-Can't save anything to the phone.
-No cut and paste.
-The email app is honky and doesn't work right half the time. Call Apple about it and they tell you it's At&t's fault, call At&t and they say it's Apple's fault.
-The only multitasking functions are the ability to listen to music while doing other things. Everything else actually closes when you leave it. There is even an article floating around about how this fact will put a huge dampening on many of the third party apps that are due to be released.
-Too many presses to do certain things... Want to make a phone call? If the number is in your favorites, you can double press the home key, but if it isn't, you need to get to your home screen, press phone, get to the dial screen or contacts screen, from the contact screen you need to scroll to the name, press it, then press the number you want to call... From my BlackBerry, all I have to do is start typing the first couple letters of the name and hit send.
-The up coming third party apps that everyone is so excited about will be extremely controlled by Apple. The only legal distribution source will be the iTunes App store, and the apps are not allowed to alter the core functionality of the phone past a certain point.
-Sure, the multimedia is nice, but you can't alter any of of your playlists, photo lists, or video files from the phone itself. You need to hook up to a iTunes to do any of this. The only exception is the phone's camera album, but if you decide to move those pictures into their own albums, you are now forced to sync with iTunes to do anything with them.
-The video playback isn't really that special. Sure, it's one of the best for a mobile phone, but it really doesn't even match DVD quality. I will tell you this, I only used it when I was sitting in a waiting room for my car, doctor, flight, etc; and with that said, I have never once wished I still had it while using the media player on my Curve to watch the same stuff. Same with music.
-Google Maps? So what, almost every web capable mobile phone under the sun can get this app and have identical functionality when compared to the iPhone.
-This may change when the 3G version comes out, but unless you are using WiFi, the browser is as much of a boon as it is a blessing. Loading full featured webpages in their full form on the iPhone over EDGE sucks. At least with the Curve I can use Opera Mini and get a remarkably similar experience (especially considering its free), plus the added speed of their proxy server system.
-You can't download anything directly off the web. See an awesome picture, guess what, you now have to go to your desktop, download it to there, and then sync it with the iPhone. Yeah, awesome...
-No user changeable battery. Yeah, imagine the true road warrior executive type who is constantly on the move, and who uses his mobile phone as his lifeline, not being able to change batteries when his dies and he is nowhere near a spot to plug in for 3 hours while it charges back up. Simply put, not going to happen.

Perceived worth isn't worth at all when it is defeated by a lack of physical worth. The only people I have met that are actually happy with their iPhone after long term use are those that have Jailbroken it and added illegal third party apps. Everyone, like myself, that used it the way it was meant to be used, gets tired of it after the novelty wears off. Strip away the fancy touch screen and user interface, and you are left with nothing more than a regular phone with a nice web browser that sucks over EDGE.
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Old 04-09-2008, 03:43 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Post 35 by CrazEtooN is the most honest I ever read on both devices

RIM ... Stick to what you do... Wanna compete with iPhone... You have to make a bb less a bb... And you loose your identity...

APPLE... Wanna compete with RIM... Get a real qwerty (physical) and removable battery

BB is business... 3G is perfect if you tether... Are you gonna feel the difference in speed ... Going for sportscores on ESPN wap...

For the Iphone 3G is necessary... You tube... I-Store and multimedia
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Old 04-09-2008, 04:13 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Even when it was new technology and labeled the 8300, it still wasn't even remotely close to $900-$1000.
Once again, another person who CANNOT read (or listen). The device's MSRP is $900-1000. That is not something that was made up and rumored onto the internet. However, when carriers RETAIL this device, it's price tag will NOT be anywhere near the MSRP. This is very similar to the cost of a PS3 is absurd however the retail price tag is substantially less. 80% of RIM's profits come from device sales. 80% of carriers' profits are from monthly fees and add-on services. Hope you can put one and one together and figure out what's happening behind the scenes. The carriers will price the device as they see fit.
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:05 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I'm sorry, but between 1:26 and 1:30 into the podcast, the exact words are, and I quote:
"I've heard 'RUMORS' MSRPs gonna be somewhere in the $900-$1000 range."

Forgive me for taking the word rumors, which I heard in the podcast, and repeating it as such. Also, I beg forgiveness for thinking the MSRP (manufacturers suggested RETAIL price) is going to be the, umm... retail... price for a device with no contract or rebate. I also seem to recall the end of that particular line of conversation ending with "it's all speculation."

What was I thinking...
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:44 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamcrn View Post
I agree the Ipod touch /Iphone's Interface to move from each application with ease is whats so impressive as well as the presentation. If they would only Adopt a more Rim like Email approach and not be exclusive to ATT all would be good with the world. I am surprised that Tmobile didnt jump @ getting the Ipod with tmobile's commercials and target audience seeming to be perfect for the Iphone.
I for one, am glad they didn't go with T-Mob. They have the worst network of the big 4. Sure their prices are low, but it does no good if you can't get a signal.
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Old 04-09-2008, 08:58 PM   #40 (permalink)
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CrazEtooN hit the mark dead on. The iPhone is an over priced ipod and I am so tired of hearing that its the second coming of (insert whatever you want here). Seriously in the last few years I have spent well over 10k with Apple on laptops, AP's monitors etc, etc but I have no intention to buy an iPhone, an iPod touch maybe. I bought the 160Gig classic it suits me fine.

iPhone is NOT corporate no matter what you add to it, and the closing of every app when the phone rings or when you use the phone is garbage. Just because Jobs is an ego maniacal control freak who hates buttons on devices does not make him right.
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