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Old 05-15-2008, 10:35 PM   #21 (permalink)
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the only mobile device manufacturer to outsell apple last year was.... guess who? Apple is changing the way things are done, no questions asked, but it isnt about the 9000. The thunder/storm, I am sure there has been some influence there, but the 9000 was, as was stated, in development before the iPhone was released. Is the 9000 the be all end all, no. Is the iPhone, no. Completely different markets. Apple isnt doing any hard to RIM, in fact, RIM released RECORD numbers last quarter. 3 times the average subscriber growth. What the iPhone DID do, was show that consumers would spend $500-$600 on a mobile device with the features they wanted. THAT is something to thank Apple for. Now the cost of R&D is offset by the device cost that is higher than it has been in recent memory. Look at RIM's stock if you want an indication if anyone is worried about the iPhone 2. Competition is healthy, and RIM is entering into the consumer market with a presence now, something they had no really done to date. That is where this battle is a close one, not in the Enterprise/Business market. In fact, RIM is, and has been, king in the business market. Around 85% of the Enterprise market. NO other device comes even close. Consumer, yes, iPhone is a very popular device. But it is just 1 device. It appeals to a small segment of the population. RIM has the advantage of having multiple form factors. Before the end of the year you will have the Pearl, the Kickstart, The Curve, the Bold, and the Storm. EVERY major form factor is represented. If Apple wants to be "The BlackBerry killer" they need more than 1 device. Until then, they will do as they always have done (and succeeded), appeal to a very loyal base of consumers that represents a small portion of the overall market.

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Old 05-15-2008, 10:37 PM   #22 (permalink)
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to the OP.
obiously thats what competiton does, pushes you harder to innovate. also i think we are all forgetting apple makes computers and ipods not phones up until recently, for them to in with onr product shake the whole industry is outstanding. the fact that one device is compared to every segment of phones is funny to me. anythinng that has come after the iphone has been held to the bar apple set. and a year later phones like the vu, voyager, diamond and 9000 are still being compared to 'old' technology. you may the phone butit is undeniable what happen to the phone industry. so yes thank the iphone for your 9000 and thunder/storm if its a full touch screen device.
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:02 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Does anyone else remember that the iPhone was introduced in January of '07? A lot of people (and may I remind a particular poster that "a lot" is two words? - Sorry, pet peeve) have commented on how the Bold has been in development for "over a year" and thus could not have been influenced by the iPhone. Its true, it wasn't for sale until June, but everyone knew what the iPhone was, how it looked, and what it did back in January - well "over a year" ago.

The iPhone isn't perfect, and come July-August, there will be a lot of posts here about problems with the Bold, but the fact is that Apple threw its big *ss in the ring and everyone took notice. Whether you like the iPhone or not, Apple is forcing everyone to rethink what they are putting on the market.

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Old 05-16-2008, 04:44 AM   #24 (permalink)
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[quote=Casperr;931794]Does anyone else remember that the iPhone was introduced in January of '07? A lot of people (and may I remind a particular poster that "a lot" is two words? - Sorry, pet peeve) have commented on how the Bold has been in development for "over a year" and thus could not have been influenced by the iPhone. Its true, it wasn't for sale until June, but everyone knew what the iPhone was, how it looked, and what it did back in January - well "over a year" ago.
QUOTE]

I remember and I also wondered if anyone else did, there was a lot of hype about the iPhone the day it was announced. So the iPhone may have possibly been a influence even if the Bold was in the works before the iPhone release. I would assume the only people that truly know are the team of people that were working on it.
If we as users are lucky, the the 3G iPhone will have changes to fix some of the things that are not so good about the first one, and their sells will boost even higher pushing other companies even harder to compete. As someone else stated it is called competition and it can be a good thing no matter who is leading the market.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:09 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sith_Apprentice View Post
the only mobile device manufacturer to outsell apple last year was.... guess who? Apple is changing the way things are done, no questions asked, but it isnt about the 9000. The thunder/storm, I am sure there has been some influence there, but the 9000 was, as was stated, in development before the iPhone was released. Is the 9000 the be all end all, no. Is the iPhone, no. Completely different markets. Apple isnt doing any hard to RIM, in fact, RIM released RECORD numbers last quarter. 3 times the average subscriber growth. What the iPhone DID do, was show that consumers would spend $500-$600 on a mobile device with the features they wanted. THAT is something to thank Apple for. Now the cost of R&D is offset by the device cost that is higher than it has been in recent memory. Look at RIM's stock if you want an indication if anyone is worried about the iPhone 2. Competition is healthy, and RIM is entering into the consumer market with a presence now, something they had no really done to date. That is where this battle is a close one, not in the Enterprise/Business market. In fact, RIM is, and has been, king in the business market. Around 85% of the Enterprise market. NO other device comes even close. Consumer, yes, iPhone is a very popular device. But it is just 1 device. It appeals to a small segment of the population. RIM has the advantage of having multiple form factors. Before the end of the year you will have the Pearl, the Kickstart, The Curve, the Bold, and the Storm. EVERY major form factor is represented. If Apple wants to be "The BlackBerry killer" they need more than 1 device. Until then, they will do as they always have done (and succeeded), appeal to a very loyal base of consumers that represents a small portion of the overall market.
Agreed, so many here think that RIM is fighting to keep up with iPhone but when I walk into a AT&T store is see almost all Blackberrys on the counter. I will admit that the iPhone owners are "very loyal" !

RIM must be doing something right as their stock has gone from $30 just a few years ago to over $140 today! I am beijkng most of my portfolio on RIM! Even my financial advisor has jumped on the bandwagon!

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Old 05-16-2008, 06:20 AM   #26 (permalink)
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The iPhone has been out for less than one year and has already become number 2 in the smartphone market. How is that a "small portion of the market?" The business market is just that, the business market. They have their BES servers in place, they have their licenses purchased, they are buried neck deep in commitment to RIM. It's not as though they can just pick up and all get iPhones at the drop of a hat.

The consumer market is a different story. Pretending the iPhone is only for a "small portion of the market" is nothing short of silly. The iPhone was released at a ridiculous, unsubsidized, price and it STILL managed to achieve second place in less than a year. How can anyone try and pretend that isn't impressive? I don't care if you hate Apple so badly it hurts, you still can't disregard the fact that what they did is impressive.

Companies left and right are trying to release consumer targeting, iPhone killing, clones left and right, even RIM. Do you think RIM would give in to the touch screen market they have shunned for so many years if it wasn't for the iPhone? I bet you they wouldn't. HTC has released strong touch devices for years as competition to RIM's BlackBerry. Funny thing that RIM never prepped a touch device to counter them. The reason is that HTC devices run the lesser popular Windows Mobile, and they never attained a point where they could truly give RIM something to worry about. The iPhone, on the other hand, has reached that point and it is obvious.

Go ahead and take the time to look at the upcoming phones for most major manufacturers. They almost all have a GUI that is icon based and extremely similar to the iPhone. Touchscreens are popping up left and right, some with hardware keys, others that are touch only. Every major tech publication sings the praises about the iPhone, and most major phone manufacturers do their device comparisons against the iPhone. Go to the Helio Ocean website for example and check it out; they actually have a direct, feature by feature comparison with the iPhone on their site...

Assuming that RIM is safe because their stock is presently strong and because they have been on top for so long is foolish. The iPhone has soared to number 2 in under a year, and has SINGLE HANDEDLY revitalized a stale cellphone market. Deny it and you are lying to yourself. I don't use an iPhone, didn't like it when I had it, and probably won't ever use one again, but I can't turn away from the obvious truth.

The iPhone is not the end of the proverbial world for all other cellphone companies. It did shake things up, it did come out with a huge bang, and it did force the hands of other manufacturers to step up their game. No other phone has been as imitated as the iPhone, and no other phone as been compared to as much as the iPhone.

Think what you want, but a blind RIM/BlackBerry fanboy that refuses to acknowledge the truth is no better than a blind iPhone fanboy that refuses to acknowledge that their devices isn't the best thing since sliced bread.
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Old 05-16-2008, 06:57 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Actually, Apple is not the second largest manufacturer of SmartPhones. Are you taking your sample information from just the US or WorldWide? Symbian devices actually hold the number 2 spot, NOT Apple.
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Old 05-16-2008, 07:13 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Forgive me for being US-centric. Yes, I am talking about it being number 2 in the US, and it is number 3 on the worldwide scale. I can't see the future, but I am willing to bet that changes when the 3G version is released overseas due to the abundance of 3G coverage over there.
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Old 05-16-2008, 07:19 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Not sure. Keep in mind MSFT predicts they will have 40% of the world smartphone market by 2012

Actually I think the iPhone will bring the death of Palm. Its been happening steadily as WinMo phones and BlackBerry phones become more prevalent, but the iPhone is helping it along. Before long Motorola will be gone from the Smartphone market (makes you wonder what will happen to Goodlink) and BBConnect will be on the iPhone and WinMo phones. I still think Apple has a great deal of influence in the consumer market, but they need to diversify their product lineup. 1 device, again it appeals to some but not anyhwere close to all. If they start taking a page from RIM's book, with experimenting in all form factors, i think we will see the vast majority of smartphones being either BlackBerrys or iPhones
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:21 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith_Apprentice View Post
Not sure. Keep in mind MSFT predicts they will have 40% of the world smartphone market by 2012

Actually I think the iPhone will bring the death of Palm. Its been happening steadily as WinMo phones and BlackBerry phones become more prevalent, but the iPhone is helping it along. Before long Motorola will be gone from the Smartphone market (makes you wonder what will happen to Goodlink) and BBConnect will be on the iPhone and WinMo phones. I still think Apple has a great deal of influence in the consumer market, but they need to diversify their product lineup. 1 device, again it appeals to some but not anyhwere close to all. If they start taking a page from RIM's book, with experimenting in all form factors, i think we will see the vast majority of smartphones being either BlackBerrys or iPhones
I agree with this post the most out of everything said in this thread. I love apple products and want an iphone but I donít want ATT as a carrier. If and when the iphone becomes available on TMO I will take a real hard look at it. I think BB connect or some sort of BIS for iphone would do wonders as well as different models instead of just one iphone. For now its my trusty curve and probably a BOLD when it comes to TMO.
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Old 05-16-2008, 09:06 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith_Apprentice View Post
I still think Apple has a great deal of influence in the consumer market, but they need to diversify their product lineup. 1 device, again it appeals to some but not anyhwere close to all. If they start taking a page from RIM's book, with experimenting in all form factors, i think we will see the vast majority of smartphones being either BlackBerrys or iPhones
Remember the iphone has only been out a year. I'm sure Steve Jobs has a few more tricks up his sleeve. And even though its not out yet, I think Android based phones will play a large roll as well, simply on the fact that it will be running on more then one manufacturer's hardware.
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Old 05-16-2008, 09:22 AM   #32 (permalink)
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The iPhone is not the end of the proverbial world for all other cellphone companies. It did shake things up, it did come out with a huge bang, and it did force the hands of other manufacturers to step up their game. No other phone has been as imitated as the iPhone, and no other phone as been compared to as much as the iPhone.

Think what you want, but a blind RIM/BlackBerry fanboy that refuses to acknowledge the truth is no better than a blind iPhone fanboy that refuses to acknowledge that their devices isn't the best thing since sliced bread.
I completely agree. I have used the iphone, didn't like it and don't like Apple's way of squeezing every last dime from the consumer, but I can't deny that their very first try into the cellphone market is a huge success that other manufacturer can only dream of. I am loyal to no device and only stick to what works for me and my needs, may it be palm, winmo, BB or symbian. I just can't stand the fanboyism of some people that think RIM is invinsible and the be all and end all. But this is a BB board, what do you expect?
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Old 05-16-2008, 09:42 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I agree that the iphone has pushed a lot of manufacturers out there to redesign and come out with better UI and better phones. Its just competition. If there was no competition, what incentive does RIM have to add new features and better form factors?

You'll always have BB fanboys telling you that BB evolved to what it is today naturally without outside influence. Like anything, without competition, it will just grow stale.
I agree with this in that RIM had to step it up fast because of the iPhone. However, I just had to delete my initial response to this, which was if you thought the iPhone didn't cause this you are on the BB kool-ade.

But the more I think about it the more I think it may have been just as much natural evolution of the BB as it was the impact of the iPhone. If you think about it there will always have to be RIM devices without a camera as their are places where camera phones just can't go and you need to be able to have a BB on you in those places.

Then there are the first real "consumer" BBs, being the Pearl and Curve. The Curve has been VERY successful in the consumer market and correct me if I am wrong but it is only a function or two away from the Bold.

Yes, the iPhone has had an impact on RIM just like it has the entire mobile device industry... geez, just take the logo off the Bold and tell me what you see... however, RIM has only been going after this consumer market aggressively for a few years and was bound to create a device that gave us what we wanted.

Now all the Bold needs is a browser....
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:21 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I see a lot of iPhone users and they are not BB types at all. What I have seen is people jumping to the iPhone so they could dump their iPod and the old cell phone. That is fine, great for them. But what tires me and many others I can tell is the mine is better than yours BS I keep reading.

Seriously the BB world is different type of user. I had the Moto Q9h for about 2 weeks, really loved the phone, the OS was fine to me and the 3G was awesome. However my company was going BB and the BB Connect was a good 6 months out. So I got a BB8820 I will remind people it has silver sides (wouldn't that be like the iPhone?). I really have enjoyed the BB but wanted some additional media abilities, horsepower and web browser.

Now in the BB Bold I have lots of power, great storage both internal and external options. The multimedia has been announced and IF delivered on will give me easy connection to my iTunes library and of course the horsepower leads to a web browser (I have heard) does not require you to connect through the BIS/BES servers so you get faster browsing.

My personal challenge is I want all of my iTunes with me all of the time, not some or having to pick and choose like I would with the iPhone. I would have to do that with the BB Bold but my goal for the BB Bold is the core use, email, phone, PIM and some, just some multimedia use.

Thats my take, and on the FUD issue earlier I waded into something I did not fully read before I commented, for that I take a lift and a stroke and moved on with my golf game.
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:33 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dawgfan View Post
Now all the Bold needs is a browser....
If the 9000 had a browser as good as the iphone's then I would get it, no questions asked. Once you've used mobile Safari, its hard going back to anything else.
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:00 PM   #36 (permalink)
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If the 9000 had a browser as good as the iphone's then I would get it, no questions asked. Once you've used mobile Safari, its hard going back to anything else.
That's my only hesitation. However, I really don't do hardcore web browsing on the device. I mean, it's nice that it's there and I use it *because* it's there, but I've yet to be in a situation where it has come in handy. As long as I have access to stuff that gives me directions, phone numbers, weather, and scores, that's all I really need from a mobile phone browser. Safari is fantastic and has no equal (as of yet) but at this point I'm willing to take a step back browser-wise for more productivity features.
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:25 PM   #37 (permalink)
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If the 9000 had a browser as good as the iphone's then I would get it, no questions asked. Once you've used mobile Safari, its hard going back to anything else.
First I should say that I agree with you. However, there is a counter-point to consider.

Think about what you use Mobile Safari for. For me, I use it to Twitter, read Google Reader, Jive Talk, Weather and some web sites here and there. Since I have started using Google Reader I don't go to many of the actual news sites as I have the feed from all of them in one nice place.

My point is that I thought that I needed and preferred the REAL Safari browser on the iPhone (note I have used MANY BBs but use an iPhone currently) but the more I think about what I use that iPhone browser for the more I realize that I use it for things that can be done natively, and often better, on the BB. I am only using the Safari browser because I have to.

Twitter is better on the BB.
Jive Talk is HANDS DOWN better on the BB. (JT BUH-LOWS non-native)
Google Reader is better on iPhone and I hate Viigo

So, the more I think about that wonderful and beautiful browser I use on the iPhone the more I realize that I am only using it because I have to because Apple has blocked native apps unless you mod (did it, hated it.. buggy).

As a mobile device, the BB and the apps it allows you to load is neck and neck in functionality and capability with regards to quick media IMO. Where the BB falls down is if you watch TV shows, video podcasts, etc as that full screen is nice.

Anyways, just my thoughts but for me personally if the 2.0 iPhone apps are not up to par (as well as the pricing and control) I could be back on the BB.
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:29 PM   #38 (permalink)
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My Blackberry is and always has been for the phone, contact manager and email. I am betting that most heavy corp Blackberry email users have done little Internet Browsing.

To me the tiny screen on both the iPhone and Blackberry would leave me empty, big time. Except for doing the simplest things on the internet a 3" screen is never going to get anything serious done for me. The high resolution screen on the 9000 and it's 3G ability might make the Internet use slight more occasional but as a selling factor for me, not!
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:38 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I will say that I have done things on the iPhone that I could not do on a BB as easily. My fiance and I were offered a GREAT deal on wedding bands and we sat right there in the store and trasnferred the $$ into a main account using ING on the iPhone. We also researched and found my current car while driving back home one night all on the iPhone.
It has its minuses... but it does have it pluses as well.

regarding Greg's comments, with all due respect you are right but that reality is changing everyday. RIM doesn't just want to market to phone/PIM/email customers anymore. They want the adults like you and the kids who would text/IM on a Pearl and everyone in-between.

They will eventually have to address the browser issue.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:09 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I will say that I have done things on the iPhone that I could not do on a BB as easily. My fiance and I were offered a GREAT deal on wedding bands and we sat right there in the store and trasnferred the $$ into a main account using ING on the iPhone. We also researched and found my current car while driving back home one night all on the iPhone.
It has its minuses... but it does have it pluses as well.

regarding Greg's comments, with all due respect you are right but that reality is changing everyday. RIM doesn't just want to market to phone/PIM/email customers anymore. They want the adults like you and the kids who would text/IM on a Pearl and everyone in-between.

They will eventually have to address the browser issue.
Time is evolving and so is RIM. If all they wanted was to market to people only interested in phone, PIM and email, the 9000, curve, pearl simply wouldn't exist. Clearly, a lot more people are interested in using a BB for internet access, hence the push for 3G on the 9000.
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