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-   -   Let the Games Begin... (http://www.blackberryforums.com/general-9000-series-discussion-bold/134454-let-games-begin.html)

BBSwany 06-10-2008 05:01 PM

Let the Games Begin...
 
So here we go:
iPhone 3G - July 11th (Source: Steve Jobs :razz:)
BlackBerry Bold - June 25th (Source: Horizon Wireless Article)

First country for a face off: Canada (Rogers)

The internet is hyping this face off more than any other two devices in recent memory. We will have to see how this plays out. Thoughts? :idea:

Blackberryer 06-10-2008 05:19 PM

There's no face off. Different devices, different appeal.

penguin3107 06-10-2008 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackberryer (Post 965045)
There's no face off. Different devices, different appeal.

+1 to this post ^^
At least someone gets it. :)

John Clark 06-10-2008 05:27 PM

There is a little more face-off between the iPhone and the Thunder....but the Thunder is going to be a tad late to the party.

CO_BBTechie 06-10-2008 05:29 PM

But that's after the iPhone has had too much to drink :razz:

Blackberryer 06-10-2008 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguin3107 (Post 965051)
+1 to this post ^^
At least someone gets it. :)

The other point is that it's not like the two devices/companies can't co-exist on the same planet. I think a lot of RIM users aren't really familiar with Apple and it's goals, so the assumption is that they're "moving in" on BB's territory. I don't say this condescendingly, I just think people jump to conclusions.

Apple probably has little interest in overtaking RIM's corporate advantage. Like they've done on the pc market, they just want a piece of the pie, to create a lucrative niche for themselves. Vice versa, RIM probably doesn't have any desires to overtake Apple in the consumer market, just grow their user base in that sector. That sector, I think we all agree, has a great amount of room for RIM to grow in.

Here's what the iPhone does for RIM: it makes owning a smartphone an option for lots of folks who previously wouldn't have thought of it. Not only that, but now that AT&T has changed the iPhone's rate plans, they now mirror BlackBerry rate plans. This means if people get accustomed to paying these prices for data, I can easily see more and more folks adopting BlackBerrys.

JSanders 06-10-2008 06:05 PM

Blackberryer, we tend to be in the same thought process, especially in regard to making routine the fee for data plans. Until now the BB had the higher fee, and consumers were shocked to find out they needed to ante up more $$ for data.

And, since a lot of consumers see the iPhone as more consumer friendly, they might pop their smartphone cherry on the iPhone before they would the more corporate BlackBerry.

In the long run we both benefit, and consumers unhappy with the iPhone get BBs, etc., the market grows larger across the board. Competition never hurt as long as you have a good product.

stranger 06-10-2008 07:48 PM

wow this is the most rationale forum of any BB or Apple forum i have been to.

Casperr 06-10-2008 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stranger (Post 965301)
wow this is the most rationale forum of any BB or Apple forum i have been to.

Amen to that. Quite refreshing.

I continue to find it funny when people say that you can't compare them - for two things that can't be compared, there are a LOT of people doing just that.

I totally agree with Blackberryer and JSanders. Apple is trying to get a piece of the corporate pie, and RIM is trying to get a piece of the consumer pie. That is why you can (should) compare them - they are each the top dog in their respective yard, and they (RIM and Apple) will keep pushing each other to put out better devices.

They are both incredible phones, and I can't wait to see how they perform.

BBSwany 06-10-2008 10:34 PM

That's why I made a thread. I agree with JC about the iPhone and Thunder being rivals of sorts. RIM is going after Apple with that phone and if the Thunder is even a quarter of what a BlackBerry normally is, then the iPhone will have no chance.

I was merely making the remark that THE INTERNET is putting these phones head to head on everything and they aren't even the same class of device. It was just food for thought. :oops:

demonte 06-11-2008 12:30 AM

isnt the new iphone and the samsung instinct supposed to be the face off

ArgonNJ 06-11-2008 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackberryer (Post 965045)
There's no face off. Different devices, different appeal.

Yup, neither company will be putting the other out of business.

ArgonNJ 06-11-2008 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonte (Post 965702)
isnt the new iphone and the samsung instinct supposed to be the face off

That's what Sprint hopes. They only thing is the Samsung is a closed system like the iphone used to be. Without 3rd party apps, what you got is what you got.

JSanders 06-11-2008 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stranger (Post 965301)
wow this is the most rationale forum of any BB or Apple forum i have been to.

You just happened to look on a good day.

Stick around, I am sure blood will shed over the subject.

ArgonNJ 06-11-2008 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbswany (Post 965560)
That's why I made a thread. I agree with JC about the iPhone and Thunder being rivals of sorts. RIM is going after Apple with that phone and if the Thunder is even a quarter of what a BlackBerry normally is, then the iPhone will have no chance.

What are you a Verizon marking executive? No chance? Can I have some of what you are smoking? While yes, the Thunder will be a hit, but just from reading some of the reactions here, many diehard BB users won't like it due to lack of a physical keyboard. Not to mention, just because it has a touch screen doesn't mean it will perform like an iphone. Nobody has seen how the UI will function. That is critical for a purely touch UI.
You may want to see this phone in action before writing the iphone obituary.

penguin3107 06-11-2008 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbswany (Post 965560)
if the Thunder is even a quarter of what a BlackBerry normally is, then the iPhone will have no chance.

You're not serious about this, right?
iPhone will have no chance? Methinks you clearly do not understand the appeal of the iPhone for most people. It's not going anywhere. The iPhone is here to stay, and will only improve. Get used to it, and stop trying to stir the pot.

BBSwany 06-11-2008 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArgonNJ (Post 966134)
What are you a Verizon marking executive? No chance? Can I have some of what you are smoking? While yes, the Thunder will be a hit, but just from reading some of the reactions here, many diehard BB users won't like it due to lack of a physical keyboard. Not to mention, just because it has a touch screen doesn't mean it will perform like an iphone. Nobody has seen how the UI will function. That is critical for a purely touch UI.
You may want to see this phone in action before writing the iphone obituary.

Thank you for the colorful commentary. :smile: I'm not in Verizon marketing and I live near Boulder so you have a good idea of what I'm smoking. :razz: So maybe I'm too much of a BB fanboy, but I expect RIM to take the full touchscreen interface to the next level. Little things, like Copy/Paste and the ability to send MMS without e-mailing them. Granted, Apple knows how to hype a product and get it into consumers hands, but most of the same things people were wishing for on the iPhone 3G still aren't there (Items listed above for instance). I know diehard BB users cringe at the the fact that there is no physical keyboard, but the same was said about the iPhone and it really wasn't that bad to type on. I understand we haven't seen the UI for the thunder yet, but do you honestly think RIM is going to build a device that is going to rival the iPhone and create a bad touchscreen OS?? We will all see what happens as time develops.

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguin3107 (Post 966149)
You're not serious about this, right?
iPhone will have no chance? Methinks you clearly do not understand the appeal of the iPhone for most people. It's not going anywhere. The iPhone is here to stay, and will only improve. Get used to it, and stop trying to stir the pot.

Ok, I'm a bit optimistic about the Thunder. Like I mentioned above, I think RIMs touchscreen OS is going to fill the gap that Apple has forgot. I understand people want something shiny and looks good, but most of us here want function over form. The iPhone has done alot for the cell phone industry. It has pushed other companies to the next level and I have no doubt that the iPhone will continue to improve, but at the end of the day, I just want my device to work and have the features that most other devices do. Not trying to stir the pot here, just my $ .02. :smile:

numetheus 06-12-2008 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguin3107 (Post 965051)
+1 to this post ^^
At least someone gets it. :)

LOL yup. Like I have said before. iPhone 3G makes a far superior entertainment and web device than the Bold can/will be. BlackBerry makes a far superior messaging and email device than iPhone.

As an entertainment device:
iPhones use of its multitouch interface, browser UI, and rendering make it far superior as a web surfing platform. iPhone is comfortable to surf on for hours because page navigation is highly intuitive, fluid, comfortable, and natural. On BB, I really don't care how good it renders. The tiny screen and tiny trackball is not ideal for extended entertainment surfing. It also has support for 3D games and other entertainment not possible yet on BlackBerry because its Java based OS its not geared for that kind of software. BB games are currently crap 2D, and will be with the Bold because of its OS constraints. Based on what we have seen in the SDK release conference and other videos of games running on iPhone, it is capable of portable console style graphics.

As a messaging and email device:
BlackBerry does email and messaging right. BIS can properly and easily support multiple email accounts, and does push very well. Tons of instant messaging software round out the BlackBerry package. On a BlackBerry, it is possible to type long emails, or message for an extended amount of time because of the physical keyboard. While you can type rapidly on the iPhone keyboard (I can do 49+ wpm), its hard to keep that up for an extended amount of time like you can on a physical keyboard. Physical keyboard feel much more natural. iPhone can do email, but is not push, and forces you to use a virtual keyboard. It is very hard to type a very long message with it.


Most people who end up lumping iPhone and BB together as competing devices are usually people with one sided experience or are extremely biased. They are made for COMPLETELY different markets. Some people, like me, will own both because we love the best of both worlds.

Thats my story and I'm sticking with it! :-P

Casperr 06-12-2008 01:17 AM

I'm sure I'll be ripped for this, but how can you say they are for COMPLETELY different markets? What are these markets you are talking about?

The Bold is aimed at the consumer market. I am sure they started work on it from day one aiming it at the consumer market. They did not alienate the corporate crowd by leaving something out, but make no mistake, its for consumers. That is why we have heard about the beautiful screen, improved media player, video recording, etc. RIM is counting on the corporate market to eat it up, but they are hoping the Bold takes another big step (following the Pearl and Curve) into the consumer market.

The iPhone is also aimed at the consumer market, but again, make no mistake, Apple is hoping to make a big splash in the corporate world. Hence all the hooplah about Exchange support.

I've been an avid Blackberry user for 2 years, with a one month break to try the iPhone last fall. I work at an Apple store and have for 3 years. 75% of my coworkers use the iPhone. 2 of my best friends use the iPhone (with who I camped for 3 days to get said phones), and 2 others use Blackberrys. I'm not sure which side of the one-sided experience I am on, or what extreme bias I have, but I absolutely believe the two are competing. Just because each should dominate their respective area doesn't mean they aren't butting heads to get in the others space.

Having said all that, I think numetheus' entertainment v. messaging assessment was spot on.

In short: iPhone trying to get Exchange and push email going added with Blackberry trying to improve the browser and media player = two competing devices in two different markets.

numetheus 06-12-2008 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casperr (Post 967501)
I'm sure I'll be ripped for this, but how can you say they are for COMPLETELY different markets? What are these markets you are talking about?

The Bold is aimed at the consumer market. I am sure they started work on it from day one aiming it at the consumer market. They did not alienate the corporate crowd by leaving something out, but make no mistake, its for consumers. That is why we have heard about the beautiful screen, improved media player, video recording, etc. RIM is counting on the corporate market to eat it up, but they are hoping the Bold takes another big step (following the Pearl and Curve) into the consumer market.

The iPhone is also aimed at the consumer market, but again, make no mistake, Apple is hoping to make a big splash in the corporate world. Hence all the hooplah about Exchange support.

I've been an avid Blackberry user for 2 years, with a one month break to try the iPhone last fall. I work at an Apple store and have for 3 years. 75% of my coworkers use the iPhone. 2 of my best friends use the iPhone (with who I camped for 3 days to get said phones), and 2 others use Blackberrys. I'm not sure which side of the one-sided experience I am on, or what extreme bias I have, but I absolutely believe the two are competing. Just because each should dominate their respective area doesn't mean they aren't butting heads to get in the others space.

Having said all that, I think numetheus' entertainment v. messaging assessment was spot on.

In short: iPhone trying to get Exchange and push email going added with Blackberry trying to improve the browser and media player = two competing devices in two different markets.

Does targeted to a different demographic seem more accurate?


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