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View Poll Results: Would you be interested in a BES co-op?
Yes 15 35.71%
No 15 35.71%
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Old 06-27-2005, 09:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Hi,
I'm not sure if this has been discussed here before, but it was suggested on howard forums the idea of a blackberry co-op where people interested in having bes but not wanting to pay the high hosting fees can set up a bes server and share the cost.

This is what I posted there:
Quote:
I just got a Blackberry 7100 and this doesn't seem like a bad idea, setting up our own co-op system. I think the only problem would be the high initial setup fee, but afterwards I think we should be able to have about 1gb or so per user for around $10 - $15 / month. One of my biggest issues is that I have a lot of e-mail about 400mb worth, and most of the services charge around $10/100MB which is quite a bit, that's why I'd prefer this type of solution.

If there are enough people interested, I think it's very feasible.

I've made a spreadsheet with some prices I found on the internet, that you can plug in the number of users into to see what the cost would be. From what I can tell, it wouldn't be too cost effective for people with low disk space requirements, but for users with more than 200MB or so, this would save a lot of money. For example for 30 users over 2 years with about 3.8GB per user the effective monthly cost would only be $11.65.

I may have made some mistakes with the software or hosting services needed, so please take a look at it, and let me know what everyone thinks:
http://www.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~...Blackberry.xls

Last edited by Fuzion : 06-28-2005 at 10:20 AM. Reason: Fixed Link
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Old 06-28-2005, 09:44 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I'd like to see the spreadsheet... but the link don't work...

The way I see it, you are gonna need a bit more than 12 bucks a month to do it.

cd.
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Old 06-28-2005, 09:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Is this a further ext. of the thread going on at HoFo? http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=659420
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Old 06-28-2005, 10:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Sorry about that, the link is fixed now.
http://www.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~...Blackberry.xls

And yes, this is from the howard forums thread, I posted this there as well.
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Old 06-28-2005, 10:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Well, your prices are a little off. BES is more like $5000. You haven't figured in Server hardware costs and T-Support annual fees because I think you would really want T-Support. Not to mention Windows server 2003 software and licenseing for all exchange users. Corey is right, It will cost a bit more per person.
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Old 06-28-2005, 11:23 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I've actually included links in the spreadhseet to where I've gotten the prices from. The hosting price I have listed there is for a dedicated hosting service which includes both the server hardware and the internet connection. I've also included a link to the cdw product page with the prices for the bes, and they seemed to have it for 1369.74 with 5 user license, so I just subtracted that from the cost to make the calculations workout.
The only thing I'm not including is the tech support cost for Windows, I think as a co-op we can handle most of that. The easiest solution would be to partition the drive and keep all the data on the second partition, then install windows, exchange and bes on the main drive, and reimage it whenever we have problems.
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Old 06-28-2005, 01:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzion
I've actually included links in the spreadhseet to where I've gotten the prices from. The hosting price I have listed there is for a dedicated hosting service which includes both the server hardware and the internet connection. I've also included a link to the cdw product page with the prices for the bes, and they seemed to have it for 1369.74 with 5 user license, so I just subtracted that from the cost to make the calculations workout.
The only thing I'm not including is the tech support cost for Windows, I think as a co-op we can handle most of that. The easiest solution would be to partition the drive and keep all the data on the second partition, then install windows, exchange and bes on the main drive, and reimage it whenever we have problems.
Well... your spreadsheet is pretty, but it doesn't tell the whole picture... The BES you have there is small biz edition which is max 20 people.

2 Physical servers... Maybe a couple of used 1U P4's... which is going to set you back $2500 cdn for anything descent.

You are going to want Windows 2003 SBS cause it's a good price and comes with Exchange and IAS. This is going to cost you about $1000 cdn, with 5 users. Additional users are going to be 70 bucks each, so another $1700 cdn.

You are going to want Windows 2003 server for the BES server as well, which is about $1200 cdn.

The BES you need can be picked up for $3000 cdn from Rogers if you sweet talk them and tell them about all the data you would use on their network. The additional 10 users is going to cost you $2500 more.

You are going to want a descent UPS as well for another $1000 cdn.

Now we have $10,000 in hardware and software. You need to find rackspace for this. I have no idea what rackspace is going to cost, but let's figure $250 per month cause that's what a few U on a rack was costing a while back here in Canada.

OK... so to pay the hardware and software off, each person is looking at $14 a month. To pay for the connection, each person is looking at about $10 pre month.

What you also need is someone who can setup the systems. You need someone who can secure the systems, you need someone who can maintain the systems.

Now god forbid you get hacked, or need some upgrades in the future. What if you have some hardware failure. Who is going to replace the hardware? Who is going do all the work?

I don't know about you, but it certainly isn't something I want to do for free.

I give you two thumbs up for the idea, but in reality it's more or less of a pipe dream... in a few years, who owns the equipment? Who owns the software? This is a big logistics nightmare if you ask me.

cd.
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Old 06-28-2005, 01:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzion
The easiest solution would be to partition the drive and keep all the data on the second partition, then install windows, exchange and bes on the main drive, and reimage it whenever we have problems.
Wow... I didn't even read this before I responded... I'll get you a towel to dry off your ears... their a little wet in the back.

You reimage your server and passwords go, configurations go, active directory changes go... bad bad bad idea for fixing a server.

I understand this is all nice to think about, but really, you don't have any idea of what it really takes to setup and maintain a system like you are proposing. Please take this as positive critisism as it is just that.

When I was young I had lots of ideas as well, but most of them were like yours... But now my favourite saying among people who know me and come to me for answers is: experience... makes you wise.

cd.
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Old 06-28-2005, 02:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I think people seem to be having trouble understanding the hosting portion of the costs on the spreadsheet. The price listed is for a dedicated hosting solution. So that includes EVERYTHING in terms of hardware, the connection, the computer, the ups, etc. They provide you with a Windows box that you can install everything on. This includes hardware failures and other physical problems with the server, so that is not an issue. Yet people seem to keep bringing up the hardware cost

I have Windows 2003 SBS and the client licenses listed on the spreadsheet so it's included in the calculation. The only thing that's not correctly accounted for is the BES, I wasn't aware that the small business edition had a maximum of 20 users, so we could either go with the enterprise version or have a maximum of 20 users. I've setup servers with exchange, and iis before, and it's not as difficult as some people are making it out to be.

I think the only issue is that of getting enough people interested. If enough people are willing to join, then it would be quite feasible and very cost effective.
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Old 06-28-2005, 02:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
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ok... then do it. More power to you.

cd.
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Old 07-01-2005, 02:50 AM   #11 (permalink)
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BTW I do have a client with sbs 2003 and bes server on the same server (with outlook web access) with out any preformance problems, so it is doable. Again they have about 10 users, I do not know how well BES scales. I do see some issues with repairing the system should it break, but I would assume part of hosting would inculde tape backup/tape swaps.I would also assume that UPS would be included in this cost. You may also want to include the cose of a comercial CA, you could use an internal or free ca/ but that may concent folks who come in from work, coffeeshops, etc.
Just my .02. John
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Old 07-02-2005, 12:36 AM   #12 (permalink)
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www.serverbeach.com
www.ev1servers.net

You can get some servers for a decent price.. the Enterprise CAL's are 100USD if you buy then seperately... and who will manage all of this?

In the event a disk failure, that 3gigs will be useless without a RAID array of some kind. Hosting services are more expensive because (I hope) they do it right.

The box you have listed on the spreadsheet does not meet the system requirements for BES 4.0.
http://www.blackberry.com/products/s.../sys_req.shtml
Although the sysreqs start at 500 users, If you plan on running your DC, Exchange, BES and SQL database all on 1 box ... I see problems in your wake :D

Last edited by T-Roy : 07-02-2005 at 12:39 AM.
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Old 07-02-2005, 07:37 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default There are some creative ways to do this

I was able to get the BES licensing for nothing by purchasing the devices and the activations from a VAR. I bought 20+ devices (at a substantial discount) and got all the BES licenses bundled in.
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Old 07-19-2005, 11:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Wirelessly posted (7290: BlackBerry7290/4.0.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

I'm very interested.

So count me in.

BTW I have done NET Co-Op's before and they all worked out very very well.



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Old 07-20-2005, 12:59 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Still interested...been following on Hofo.
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
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What a great idea - nice job! I am very pleased with the service and performance of this hosted BES Co-op. In the long run it will be far less expensive than most hosted BES/MDS services.

I would highly recommend for non corporate BB users that wish to take advantage of the BES features available to your blackberry.
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Old 07-10-2007, 09:08 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twj332 View Post
What a great idea - nice job! I am very pleased with the service and performance of this hosted BES Co-op. In the long run it will be far less expensive than most hosted BES/MDS services.

I would highly recommend for non corporate BB users that wish to take advantage of the BES features available to your blackberry.
you do realize this thread is two years old right. It never panned out
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Old 07-10-2007, 09:11 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg View Post
you do realize this thread is two years old right. It never panned out
Actually it did. I have the server set up and running with a few users, and twj332 is one of them. Anyone that is interested in joining can contact me, and I can set them up with an account.
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Old 07-10-2007, 09:35 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzion View Post
Actually it did. I have the server set up and running with a few users, and twj332 is one of them. Anyone that is interested in joining can contact me, and I can set them up with an account.
Aww my bad I stand corrected and I will be sending you a message shortly.
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Old 07-10-2007, 10:23 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Ok, I am interested in this, but I do have 1 question. If you are running/managing everything with BES wouldn't it be possible you to look at all my emails, pins, etc? I'm not saying that you would, just a concern.

Where are the hosted servers located? If you go on BES and the servers go down, do you only lose your email, or your pin messaging also?
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