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Old 04-10-2009, 03:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default PIN shows msg delivered but it isn't....

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I got a PIN message from a friend today. I replied and immediately showed the d, indicating my reply was delivered to him. Thing is...he never got it.

We've been swapping PIN messages forever and nothing's changed. No new PINs or such. His email still works normally. I get PINs from him but even though mine show delivered on his handheld, he's not seeing my messages.

This is a little disconcerting because one of the advantages of PIN messaging is you know when your message has been received. Or at least so I thought until today.

Both devices are Bold. Anyone have an explanation how a message can show delivered but not appear on the receiving unit?

tia
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Old 04-10-2009, 04:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What about any other contacts? Do they not get PIN messages from you or is it only this one particular contact?
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Old 04-10-2009, 04:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Other contacts are receiving my PINs normally.

Edit: To add to the puzzle, my friend is receiving PINs normally from his other contacts. :(

Last edited by eljefe : 04-10-2009 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 04-10-2009, 04:59 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Ask that other user to do the (powered on) battery pull reboot.
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Old 04-10-2009, 05:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JSanders View Post
Ask that other user to do the (powered on) battery pull reboot.
First thing he tried.
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Old 04-10-2009, 05:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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OK, figure out if ANYthing else has changed.

--When did the delivery stop?
--Is he on a BES with an IT Policy blocking PIN messages?
--Did that IT Policy recently change?

Assuming like you said, all the simple things, like the user knows where to find the PIN messages in his main messages folder?
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Old 04-10-2009, 06:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The user in question definitely knows how to find PIN messages, and is getting them from other users.

I've run some more tests. I think a pattern is evolving. I suspect that I can receive PIN messaages from anyone, but only users on my company's BES are receiving messages from me.

It's time to....call IT.

Edit: Emailed IT. They are aware of the problem. They are looking in to it but suspect our parent company's IT dept changed the policy without annoucing the change. Great.

Again...the worst thing about this is that the PIN message I sent showed as delivered even though they wren't. Not good.

Last edited by eljefe : 04-10-2009 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Not good at all.
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Old 04-11-2009, 07:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljefe View Post
but only users on my company's BES are receiving messages from me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljefe View Post
Emailed IT. They are aware of the problem. They are looking in to it but suspect our parent company's IT dept changed the policy without annoucing the change.
They enabled Peer-to-Peer encryption on the BES.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:17 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by penguin3107 View Post
They enabled Peer-to-Peer encryption on the BES.
I'm not sure if that's the answer or not, but this morning the problem is gone. I'm still waiting to hear from my IT contact to learn if the issue was created deliberately or not.

I've always had some question in my mind whether or not PIN messages even passed through the BES. I thought not. This may change my thinking. Although it may have been some permission that was changed in the company handsets rather than something at the BES itself.

Whatever caused the problem I'm glad it's fixed but I still have a technical curiosity how it happened. And I still really don't like the fact that a PIN message can should delivered when it wasn't.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:30 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljefe View Post
I'm not sure if that's the answer or not, but this morning the problem is gone. I'm still waiting to hear from my IT contact to learn if the issue was created deliberately or not.

I've always had some question in my mind whether or not PIN messages even passed through the BES. I thought not. This may change my thinking. Although it may have been some permission that was changed in the company handsets rather than something at the BES itself.

Whatever caused the problem I'm glad it's fixed but I still have a technical curiosity how it happened. And I still really don't like the fact that a PIN message can should delivered when it wasn't.
They enabled Peer-to-peer encryption on the BES. And then they turned it off.
That's what happened.

PIN messages can be logged on the BES. They don't "pass through the BES" but rather a copy of the PIN message in the handheld database is transmitted and logged on the BES, if the BES admin sets this up.
The handheld user will have no knowledge of this.

There's no permission setting on the handheld that would have caused this exact behavior. It was a server side modification.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:32 AM   #12 (permalink)
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well at least you know now...
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:38 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSanders View Post
well at least you know now...
I still don't know with certainty.

I know the company's IT department has a wide range of latitude in setting permissions on their handsets. But do PIN messages actually flow through the BES so, as with transitional email, they can be recorded, monitored, and read by IT?

My thinking has always been anything on a company's handset is fair game for them to see and I act accordingly. But from a technical standpoint, I'm still curious how PIN messages are routed. I've seen authoritative explanations that contradict themselves.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:39 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljefe View Post
I still don't know with certainty.

I know the company's IT department has a wide range of latitude in setting permissions on their handsets. But do PIN messages actually flow through the BES so, as with transitional email, they can be recorded, monitored, and read by IT?

My thinking has always been anything on a company's handset is fair game for them to see and I act accordingly. But from a technical standpoint, I'm still curious how PIN messages are routed. I've seen authoritative explanations that contradict themselves.
Read my post above.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Read the post above from penguin, again.

Quote:
They don't "pass through the BES" but rather a copy of the PIN message in the handheld database is transmitted and logged on the BES, if the BES admin sets this up.
Seems to be pretty clear on the 'pass-through' question.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:48 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Ooops....I read your "at least you know" jsanders and completely missed penguin's.

Thanks penguin. That seems a good explanation.

But I still don't like the "d" when the message wasn't delivered.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:53 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljefe View Post
But I still don't like the "d" when the message wasn't delivered.
Technically speaking, it was delivered.
The problem is that your BES encrypted the message, so the recipient cannot read it.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:01 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I get your point but I'm sure you also get mine. When I see the d, I assume the intended recipient can read the message.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:02 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljefe View Post
I get your point but I'm sure you also get mine. When I see the d, I assume the intended recipient can read the message.
Fair enough.
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:50 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default The end of the story....

I heard back from the head of our IT dept. (Fortunately, he's a great guy and a pleasure to work with.) IT said working with RIM they found a corrupted encryption key somewhere in the system. Once they fixed that everything went back to normal.

So, FWIW, it wasn't a deliberate change in policy after all.
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