Okay I'm getting somewhere now.
1. I uninstalled the desktop manager.
2. Download what says is version v220.127.116.11 from the BB web site.
3. Installed it.
4. My desktop manager still says v4.1.0.08 (I'll ask about that later.)
1. I downloaded and installed the device software for the 8700 onto my PC.
2. Now when I connect I can see all the software in the applications loader.
3. However, I do not see any of the third party apps that I installed there.
Question #1. Should I see third party apps (ones which were installed via the PC not OTA in the app loader.)
Question #2 Do I need v18.104.22.168 and if yes why didn't my install procedure work?
Thanks for everyone's help!