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Old 02-13-2006, 11:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default MS introduces Direct Push email competes with BB

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http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/02...le_push_email/

Will this succeed?

Do we know if you require an Exchange server to get on-demand email (you don't have to tell it to go check it) or is there the option like BB where you can use the Web Client?
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I thought a while back that someone (could have been Visto but I cant remember) was going after MS with patent dispute? Please stop me if I am wrong, but I remember seeing that somewhere.
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Visto is indeed going asfter MS, with patents licensed from NTP.

You require devices running WM5 and Exchange 2003 with SP2.
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluePolaski
I thought a while back that someone (could have been Visto but I cant remember) was going after MS with patent dispute? Please stop me if I am wrong, but I remember seeing that somewhere.
True, you can see an article for that lawsuit here.
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:57 AM   #5 (permalink)
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HP is the device vendor for this venture....I see problems already...
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckBB
Visto is indeed going asfter MS, with patents licensed from NTP.

You require devices running WM5 and Exchange 2003 with SP2.
Lol. Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I knew I saw something somewhere but you helped save me from looking like I had no idea what I was talking about. Good old patent disputes. Gotta love em.
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Old 02-13-2006, 12:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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This direct push technology requires Exchange 2003 SP2 and an update to the Windows Mobile 2005 operating system (update AKU 2.0). This OS update won't ship in devices in North America until the April-May timeframe.

There were some rumors that the release of the update was delayed due to the lawsuit by Visto. But that seems unlikely.
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Old 02-13-2006, 01:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Maybe Microsoft should get RIM to do a workaround for them
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Old 02-13-2006, 02:26 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jase88
HP is the device vendor for this venture....I see problems already...
Not quite. It will work with any phone running WM5
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Old 02-13-2006, 02:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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But isn't it also true that carriers have to sign onto this as well? I mean, if Cingular is the only carrier in the US, what good does that do for T-Mobile or Verizon customers who want to use the new MS push technology?

I've spoken to SO many people who are all excited to get their new Treo's because "Microsoft released SP2 which means I can get push email now!" And I have to explain to them, "No- because Verizon still doesn't support it, AND your Treo needs a firmware upgrade, you won't get push email until what would seem mid-late Q2 at the rate Verizon tends to move."

MS - once again, late to the party with version 1.0 software. It'll be buggy and it will pretty much suck, but it will offer some seriously kickass features. By version 2.0 it will be stable and people will like it. And if RIM doesn't do anything about it, I can easily see our small biz dropping our support contract on BES in a heartbeat.
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Old 02-13-2006, 03:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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So, just to clarify.

My current email addres (I use BWC on my BB) which is my own domain i purchased would not be pushed to my device, i would have to go and "get it".

Only with Exchange server?
that sucks.
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Old 02-13-2006, 04:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmehling
But isn't it also true that carriers have to sign onto this as well? I mean, if Cingular is the only carrier in the US, what good does that do for T-Mobile or Verizon customers who want to use the new MS push technology?

I've spoken to SO many people who are all excited to get their new Treo's because "Microsoft released SP2 which means I can get push email now!" And I have to explain to them, "No- because Verizon still doesn't support it, AND your Treo needs a firmware upgrade, you won't get push email until what would seem mid-late Q2 at the rate Verizon tends to move."

MS - once again, late to the party with version 1.0 software. It'll be buggy and it will pretty much suck, but it will offer some seriously kickass features. By version 2.0 it will be stable and people will like it. And if RIM doesn't do anything about it, I can easily see our small biz dropping our support contract on BES in a heartbeat.

Maybe but v2.0 will be part of Exchange 12 wich needs a 64-bit server. Nad so far on the Treo 700w is a reasonable device, and it's short on memory. I wouldn't plan on writing off BB quite yet.
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Old 02-13-2006, 04:20 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmehling
But isn't it also true that carriers have to sign onto this as well? I mean, if Cingular is the only carrier in the US, what good does that do for T-Mobile or Verizon customers who want to use the new MS push technology?

I've spoken to SO many people who are all excited to get their new Treo's because "Microsoft released SP2 which means I can get push email now!" And I have to explain to them, "No- because Verizon still doesn't support it, AND your Treo needs a firmware upgrade, you won't get push email until what would seem mid-late Q2 at the rate Verizon tends to move."

MS - once again, late to the party with version 1.0 software. It'll be buggy and it will pretty much suck, but it will offer some seriously kickass features. By version 2.0 it will be stable and people will like it. And if RIM doesn't do anything about it, I can easily see our small biz dropping our support contract on BES in a heartbeat.
All of the carriers already have the code. It's just in the certification process. My sources are stating it will be scheduled to ship in April.
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Old 02-13-2006, 08:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckBB
Not quite. It will work with any phone running WM5
I realize this. However, the press release from Microsoft mentions a device partnership with HP....
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Old 02-14-2006, 08:11 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jase88
I realize this. However, the press release from Microsoft mentions a device partnership with HP....
That's because HP is the largest manufacturer of PDa that also function as a phone. All of the other so-called 'smatphones' are primarly phones running WM OS. The HP devices let you interact with the PDA with a stylus. The TREO 700w now does that, but the screen is small and memory is limited.
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:17 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinTurbo
All of the carriers already have the code. It's just in the certification process. My sources are stating it will be scheduled to ship in April.
Not doubting you, and here's hoping to you being right, but Verizon's "perpetual late girl to the party-ism" leaves me unimpressed. If they can't release their Broadband Access product without glitches galore (see threads about "data connection refused"), I have no faith in new services (A) being released on time and (B) working out of the box.

I cannot conceive why this has taken so long to come to fruition from a product/service as well as pure marketing standpoint. RIM has been sitting pretty all by itself without a care in the world. They haven't had any reason to innovate or expand their products until now. I can only see good coming out of this regardless of what camp you're in.

I know I'm not going to cry if we decide not to renew our BES license. We're maxed out at 15 users now because we bought the small biz edition. I'll gladly switch to try out the MS devices as I'm a user who doesn't mind being able to watch movies, take pictures, listen to MP3s, use removable media, use not-as-crippled MS apps, use Wi-Fi, uncrippled BlueTooth, etc. AND read/respond to email.

just my .02
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:32 AM   #17 (permalink)
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And do all that on a too small device with a crappy battery life.

So far there are 3 devices that can compete in this market. The TREO 700w, the HP PDA/phone, and Audiovox used to make a PDA/Phone. Both the HP and audiovox suffered from the PPC blight of discharging the battery in 2 days while sitting idle. On top of that, i've heard that the HP product sucks as a phone. The TREO suffers from a non-PPC standard, too small display.

All of the other contenders are phones running the WM OS. I would rather not have to type emails on a phone numeric keypad.
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:32 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckBB
Visto is indeed going asfter MS, with patents licensed from NTP
Visto has their own patents for wireless technologies. They are simply licensing NTP's patents, in addition to the ones they already have. They are using 3-4 of their own patents to sue Microsoft, Good Technology, etc. From what I understand, the strong point on their patents is that the majority of points brought up in USPTO findings have been approved, as opposed to NTP's outright rejections - this includes prior art arguments against the patents. They have a fairly strong case if the patents are indeed being infringed upon. Visto will likely name RIM in a case at some point in the near future, as well.
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:47 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckBB
And do all that on a too small device with a crappy battery life.

So far there are 3 devices that can compete in this market. The TREO 700w, the HP PDA/phone, and Audiovox used to make a PDA/Phone. Both the HP and audiovox suffered from the PPC blight of discharging the battery in 2 days while sitting idle. On top of that, i've heard that the HP product sucks as a phone. The TREO suffers from a non-PPC standard, too small display.

All of the other contenders are phones running the WM OS. I would rather not have to type emails on a phone numeric keypad.
I don't dispute what you're saying, but I think they can still be considered first gen devices. Battery life is an issue EVERYBODY is going to face in the future from PDA's to laptops to cars. Battery technology has to and will (hopefully) improve over time.

But it's a tradeoff, just like with a BlackBerry. I can get constantly updated near-realtime quotes, but my BB dies within 4 hours when it's running. Would I gladly trade a day or two of standby for the ability to do all the multimedia stuff? Asbolutely. I'll take the tradeoff because my device sits on my desk in the cradle for 10 hours a day and I could always buy a car charger.

Tradeoff's *I'M* willing to make that others may not be. But the fact that I really don't even have a choice right now irks me. Maybe I'll try MS and be so turned off by their first gen attempt that I'll go right back to BB. Maybe RIM has something up their sleeve to trump the first gen MS devices. Maybe they don't, but what is their motivation for innovation if there are no other competitors?

AFAIK RIM was the one of the, if not the first groups to put a QWERTY keyboard on a device, now look at the imitation. Bye bye stlyus and grafitti and poor handwriting recognition. But since that time, what have they done for innovation?
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Old 02-14-2006, 11:50 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The key piece missing is MSFP, Messaging and Security Feature Pack. This will provide MOST of the security features needed to bring MS wireless email up to the level employed by the BES.

I was at a Microsoft MSFP class 10 days ago, found it curious that they are unable to reset passwords wirelessly. When I said something to the instructor about it he said the user could either re-cradle and sync, or Fed-Ex it back to the office. Yeah, THAT solution will make some senior management type happy as he is 2 days into a two week international trip.

We have a couple Treo 700w's on loan from Verizon, battery life is surprisingly good BUT, I want to see how that changes once we start using MS wireless push. I've seen the algorithim that MS is using to keep the Exchange server in touch with the handheld and there is a LOT of IP traffic going on.
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