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Old 09-29-2013, 01:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Ambiguity or Dishonesty?

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When I recently lost my HTC Wildfire S, I visited my local friendly dealer and said I needed a smartphone with a "proper" keyboard, as I had difficulties with so-called touchscreeens. That seemingly limited my choice to a Blackberry.

However, my dealer said that for most Blackberries one had to pay 4-6 euros per month extra to the mobile service provider. He thought, however, this was not the case with the 9800 Torch, and I bought a used one from him, with guarantee.

The first recommended step is to set up an email account. When I clicked in the Set Up icon on Email Accounts, up came a screen which started "To activate your enterprise account..".But I do not want an enterprise account. So I checked with p. 73 of the 350 page 9800 Torch Manual, and found:
Set up an email address
1. On the Home screen, click the
Setup icon.
2. In the Setup
section, click the
Email Accounts icon.
3. Follow the screens to set up your email address. When your email address is set up correctly, you receive a confirmation message. To view and manage your email messages, on the Home screen, click the Messages icon.
Note:
In some cases, you might see the following options. If so, select one of the options.

Internet Mail Account
: Use this option to associate your BlackBerry® device with one or more existing email accounts (for
example, Windows Live™ Hotmail®) or to create a new email address for your device.

Enterprise Account
: If your administrator gave you an enterprise activation password, use this option to associate yourdevice with your work email account using the BlackBerry® Enterprise Server.

If you are trying to set up a Internet email account (for example, Windows Live™ Hotmail®) or a new email address for your device, and do not see this option, contact your administrator or wireless service provider.

I did not see the option to set up an Internet email account, and when I contacted my provider he said there would be a charge.

So I would like to know whether the Torch supports a (free) Internet email account or not. And if not, why is this option mentioned specifically in the handbook for the 9800 manual, though with ifs and buts ( as italicized above by myself).

I returned the Torch to my dealer, and told him I was ready to pay him if he could implement the free Internet email account he had implied was possible. He kept the machine over the weekend, and last Monday phoned to say that only the latest Blackberry costing €600 locally offers this.

I am unwilling to pay 4-6 euros monthly for a feature provided by all other smartphones without a seemingly obligatory enterprise feature.

What is the experience of other 9800 Torch owners?

It seems to me that Blackberry has here been blatantly dishonest, compelling users to pay extra for a feature that probably most non-business users do not want, and at the expense of many apps offered by Android and Windows systems. This is possibly a major reason for the sacking of the Android management and a third of its staff.
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ambiguity or Dishonesty?

All BlackBerries prior to the the new BB10 series require a BlackBerry Data Plan. This is usually similar to costs for a standard Internet data plan, but your local costs may vary.
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Old 09-29-2013, 06:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ambiguity or Dishonesty?

The service your referring to is called BIS not BES. The carriers charge more because all data is routed through the Blackberry servers. This allows a very high level of security not available on other cell phones. All data is full encrypted in and out of the phone. It also offers a few more features other cell phones do not have like multiple email addresses on the same phone. The new Z and Q models are not routed via the Blackberry company servers and as such allow the carriers to offer a lower type data plan not controlled by Blackberry. Your complaints are not valid because you should have investigated various phones before buying. If you feel the store did not honestly deal with you I would go back and see if they will give you what you want at the cost you want. Remember "you get what you pay for" and generally the safest thing is " buyer beware, if it sounds too good it probably is"
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:33 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ambiguity or Dishonesty?

Actually, it wasn't BlackBerry being dishonest, it was your rep being an idiot. BIS has required a BlackBerry Data Plan since BIS first existed. This isn't news. I would be ashamed to sell someone a BlackBerry not knowing this simple fact.

On top of that, if he wants to charge you 600 Euro for a Q10, you need to find another carrier.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ambiguity or Dishonesty?

I have delayed replying whilst I waited for a written response from my wireless service provider, DREI. Weeks later I have still had none. DREI also offers free telephone support.The problem is, however, that one can wait over 15 minutes and never get any answer. A Drei shop told me informally that my Torch would cost me xxx8364;10 extra per month, doubling my current cost.


Let us get back to the basic question: I have just watched the demo film for the 9800, and what it shows is simply not true. Just reread my first email, which stated
"The first recommended step is to set up an email account. When I clicked in the Set Up icon on Email Accounts, up came a screen which started "To activate your enterprise account..".But I do not want an enterprise account. So I checked with p. 73 of the 350 page 9800 Torch Manual, and found:
Set up an email address
1. On the Home screen, click the
Setup icon.
2. In the Setup
section, click the
Email Accounts icon.

But there simply isn't one.But that is not what the demo film shows. Watch it yourselves!

I really don't see why Blackberry puts such untruthful stuff on record and seemingly gives no contact address of its own, merely passing the buck to user forums.

If they lie to users, it is hardly surprising that dealers are also misled!

The figure of xxx8364;600 came not from my dealer, but the latest issue of the magazine "Connect", which publishes list prices, followed by street prices. It was too early to for it to be able to provide a street price. For what it is worth, Amazon.de currently quotes xxx8364;490 for a Q10.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:21 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ambiguity or Dishonesty?

The plan for BlackBerry devices (BES/Enterprise for a work issued device) and (BIS for personal use) do not cost you any more than any other plan. You are being lied to.

Basic question: Set up an e-mail account. Yes, this is usually the first step. You need a BlackBerry Internet Service (BIS) plan to setup an e-mail. BlackBerry phones come with the setup icon on the homescreen, and your first issue is that you bought a used unit from someone that clearly doesn't know about BlackBerry or is trying to pull a fast on on you. Why would BlackBerry be responsible for your purchase of a used device?

BlackBerry does offer support. Unless you go through your carrier and get transferred, you will be charged for any technical support. The service agreement is with your carrier, not the individual.

- You did not properly research what the requirements were for your device.

- You need to change dealers. BTW, your problem is with your mobile dealer, and not your carrier, or BlackBerry.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:20 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ambiguity or Dishonesty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by translator View Post
I really don't see why Blackberry puts such untruthful stuff on record and seemingly gives no contact address of its own, merely passing the buck to user forums.

If they lie to users, it is hardly surprising that dealers are also misled!
It appears you are intent on being angry with BlackBerry. That is fine, but as Zombie has succinctly pointed out it is misdirected.

You appear to be hearing what you want to hear and ignoring what you don't. BlackBerries have always required a specific BlackBerry Data Plan as has been explained to you already.

Maybe you should get yourself a nice Android or iToy......
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ambiguity or Dishonesty?

OP, I'm not sure why you are angry with BlackBerry, but as has been mentioned several times, BIS is required if you want to use your 9800 for more than phone calls and texting. Period. End of story. It has always been that way. Your 9800 manual doesn't tell you to configure a BIS account before setting up your mail because BIS is part of the activation process: it's accepted as fact that you will have done that before you even turn the device on. Do you understand? It's too bad your carrier and/or local dealer are either too stupid or dishonest to tell you that.

I am amazed you're willing to wait this long for a written explanation from you carrier about this situation. That alone should tell you the problem isn't with BlackBerry, but your carrier.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ambiguity or Dishonesty?

BIS used to be a LOT more expensive. I remember paying an extra $30/month for BIS on AT&T. Now, with BB10, there is no more BIS so you pay nothing extra. IMHO, that's the way to go. Most of the issues with BB10 have been ironed out, the hardware is awesome, and it's the future for BlackBerry (provided they have one). In any case, you'll get YEARS of solid use out of a new BB10 BlackBerry no matter what happens.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:04 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ambiguity or Dishonesty?

I remember paying an extra $30/month for BIS on AT&T??? Did i miss something? I still pay for a BIS service on att called Blackberry data plan.
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ambiguity or Dishonesty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsac View Post
I remember paying an extra $30/month for BIS on AT&T??? Did i miss something? I still pay for a BIS service on att called Blackberry data plan.
That used to be ON TOP of paying for a regular data plan. Now it seems like BIS is the same price, and takes the place of, regular data plans. The net cost of getting BIS (at least on Sprint) was $0. I've only had BB10 devices since jumping ship from The Now Network™ to Verizon.
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Old 10-20-2013, 11:05 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ambiguity or Dishonesty?

There's always the option of bluetooth keyboard cases
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Old 10-20-2013, 11:15 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ambiguity or Dishonesty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodzah View Post
There's always the option of bluetooth keyboard cases
Bluetooth cases are not relevant to this discussion.
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Old 10-20-2013, 08:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ambiguity or Dishonesty?

I pay for voice service and have the added Blackberry data plan.
ATT did convert most plans to a size plan but it still is added to the call plan.
My plan for unlimited data and $450 minutes is about $60

The same plan if purchased today is much higher.
the lowest price for 5 GB data @ 450 minutes runs about $ 109 a month.


Shows the carriers know voice is not where the money is.
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