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Old 05-14-2006, 04:05 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default A bit confused with BB BES data traffic flow

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I signed up BB BES plan with Singapore carrier SingTel, my company has BES server.

I am using 8700g.

I can phone call, SMS, MMS, WAP push, email, BB messenger with no issue. But I am bit confused with the traffic flow, I am trying to understand how data goes thru.

Q1: Are following data flows correct?

1. BlackBerry Browser: BB -> Carrier GPRS -> Corp BES -> .... -> destination site

2. Internet Browser: BB -> Carrier GPRS -> .... -> destination site

3. Other Appz: BB -> Carrier GPRS -> Corp BES -> .... -> destination site

Q2: I have read some threads here, saying that by using Internet Browser won't go thru Corp BES, my device has 2 browsers, a bit different, BB browser can not display Chinese web site while Internet Browser can.

I tried a SSH client, it connected to Corp internal IP successfully without going thru any VPN gateway, so I guess all data traffic will go thru Corp BES except Internet Browser? How does carrier force Internet browser to skip Corp BES?

Q3: If all traffic must go thru Corp BES, will that slow down the speed? If I am connecting to a Singapore local site with BB Browser, and our BES is hosted in US, that means data will go thru Singapore carrier -> US BES -> Singapore site?

Q4: If I have problem with some appz such as Google Talk, I tried GTalk but it prompted error said something like service book entry not found. In this case, which part of above flow should I look into? Do I need to apply for GTalk policy update from carrier or Corp BES admin?

Q5: Both Corp BES and carrier created lots of entries in my service book, some make MMS/WAP/InternetBrowsing working, some make email/sync data working, same question as Q4, in case of asking for a new service, who should I ask for?

Q6: Corp BES seems also control whether my device has phone call / SMS enabled or not. Does that mean, if Corp BES is down, I can't make phone call then?

Sorry for lots of questions, I am really new to BB...

Thanks.
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Old 05-14-2006, 04:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I think it was Jibi who posted this eon's ago, study this then see if you still have questions.
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Old 05-14-2006, 05:08 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soapm
I think it was Jibi who posted this eon's ago, study this then see if you still have questions.
thanks for the reply, but this is the flow which BES push data to device, what is the data flow if appz@device sends the requests out?
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Old 05-14-2006, 05:27 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I found this scheme in this forum...

Seem answer most of my questions...

Think I am corp user (because I registered as BES?). All traffic must go thru corp BES including Internet Browser? But how come the BB Browser and Internet Browser bechive differently (in displaying Chinese characters)...
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Old 05-14-2006, 02:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I don't know if your assessment is 100% correct. I am on BES but they have turned off MDS on the BES. This means, even though I have two browsers, I can only use the one from my carrier (TMO) to surf or 3rd party apps. It was my understanding if you have two browsers (BES and carrier) you really have both configs in your picture.

Now let me try and answer what I can for you....

Quote:
Originally Posted by m365
Q1: Are following data flows correct?

1. BlackBerry Browser: BB -> Carrier GPRS -> Corp BES -> .... -> destination site

2. Internet Browser: BB -> Carrier GPRS -> .... -> destination site

3. Other Appz: BB -> Carrier GPRS -> Corp BES -> .... -> destination site.
Yes, except number 3 is usually selectable, you can set your default in browser settings which will stear the default data to either BES/MDS or BIS. Hopefully, the 3rd party app creator will make this selectable. You must also keep in mind your BES admin can control/limit this via the policy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m365
Q2: I have read some threads here, saying that by using Internet Browser won't go thru Corp BES, my device has 2 browsers, a bit different, BB browser can not display Chinese web site while Internet Browser can.
...How does carrier force Internet browser to skip Corp BES?.
See the picture you found, it shows the path of each browser... It must be your BES that is limiting access. Remember, the BES can only limit your carriers TCP via a policy to your device. That limitation is mostly on or off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m365
Q3: If all traffic must go thru Corp BES, will that slow down the speed? If I am connecting to a Singapore local site with BB Browser, and our BES is hosted in US, that means data will go thru Singapore carrier -> US BES -> Singapore site?
If you use the BES browser then yes, if you use the carriers browser no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m365
Q6: Corp BES seems also control whether my device has phone call / SMS enabled or not. Does that mean, if Corp BES is down, I can't make phone call then?
No, the policy cripples the ability of the phone itself so if the policy lets you make calls, even if the BES is down, you can still make a call or SMS.

Welcome to the world of BB...
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Old 05-14-2006, 08:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thank you very much for you reply!

Last question

If I want to use Google Talk, I can
- either ask Carrier to create the GTalk Policy to skip Corp BES,
- or ask Corp BES admin to create the policy,

is that correct?

Thanks for your help.
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Old 05-14-2006, 11:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't use google talk so it's tough for me to say, first read this link

There is also a list of carriers that support this app. Make sure yours is on the list. I don't know if your BES admin can shut just google talk down. Someone else will have to chime in.
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Old 05-14-2006, 11:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks.

My BES admin said he didn't restrict IM communication. I just checked with my US colleagues, they are with Cingular, and they are able to sign in GTalk. So I guess this is the policy set by my carrier. Will check with the carrier.

Thanks a lot. much more clear now...
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Old 05-15-2006, 07:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Just wanted to add my $0.02 worth here.

All communication from the handheld (data communication) is handled by service books on the handheld. The two different web browsers (actually 3 including the wap browser) are associated with their own service book. The BB browser points to the service book for your BES, and the Internet Browser points to the service book for your Carrier.

This also explains why you can't use GTalk atm (based on the error message you are getting) you don't have the Google Talk service book. Check with your carrier to see if Google Talk is supported. If it's not, you'll never be getting the service book needed.

As for the North American BES with a Singapore carrier, if you browse with the BB browser, there may be a slight delay, but it's based on a lot of factors...the BES host's connection to the internet (for requesting the page, and communicating with the BB network), the Singapore carrier's connection to the internet, and your connection to the carrier's network. It'd kinda look like this...

BB > Wireless provider > BB Network > BES > BES get's page from the internet > BB Network > Wireless provider > BB.

If you use the internet browser, it'll look like this

BB > Wireless Provider > BB Network > Wireless Provider's Mobile Data Service > WP's MDS get's the page from the net > BB Network > Wireless provider > BB.

Some advantages to using the BB browser is if you require access to a corporate intranet site (one that you can only get from your computer at work) you can access these pages with the BB Browser but not the Internet Browser.

The language display is dependent on what language packs are available on the server that is hosting the Mobile Data Service. The Singapore provider has all the languages you need installed for their MDS, but a north american BES host may not have all the languages installed, therefore it doesn't know how to handle the pages when it downloads them.

And lastly, as for the IT policy (BES controlling what you can and can't do) think of it more as a set of rules that are pushed to the BlackBerry when it's first activated. Your BB now has a copy of those rules, so whatever you can do with the BES, you can do if the BES is down (obviously except email and bb Browser, etc). The handheld will always abide by these rules until a new set of rules are pushed down. Even if you completely wipe the handheld, those rules are still enforced.

Zro
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Old 05-16-2006, 08:59 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks Zro for your great $0.02 comments! much much much more clear now...
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Old 05-16-2006, 02:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Bookmarks Meaning

I suppose this was obvious to everyone but me but just in case.

On my BB there are two predefined Bookmarks folders. One for WAP and another for Blackberry. A bookmark under WAP automatically use the carrier browser and Service Book. A bookmark under Blackberry uses the "company" browser and BES (and can therefore hit internal sites).

I wish I'd know this a bit sooner, but suppose this is better late than never.
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Old 05-18-2006, 04:18 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Something interesting regarding unlocked BB (from Orange for example) with the carrier (like China Mobile) who doesn't support BB service.

the BB device could be used as a normal phone only, can make phone call and SMS, but not able to use GPRS at all. From the data flow above, I can understand why no GPRS.

However one can use this BB as a dial-up GPRS modem, it works perfectly with no issue.

I am just wondering if the Carrier didn't provide BB service, and BB can't browse sites at all by its browser, why GPRS modem works? How Modem skips Policy?
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