BlackBerry Forums Support Community               

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-15-2006, 01:12 AM   #1 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Model: 7100T
Posts: 2
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Company using BES: are my SMS messages private?

Please Login to Remove!

I use a 7100T at work, and we use BES to get our Exchange email. My question is: are my SMS messages--incoming and outgoing--private? Can my BES administrator read them?
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 01:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Model: 7290
Posts: 29
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

The BES admin cannot view your SMS messages, no. Unless the admin knows what he/she is doing they can't view your email either.
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 02:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
stileshingles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Model: 8700g
Carrier: T-Mobile
Posts: 137
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bb_frustrates_me
Unless the admin knows what he/she is doing they can't view your email either.
Just to elaborate, if the BES admin is also the Exchange admin (which I think many are) he will probably be able to read any email that goes through Exchange, including those sent and recieved from the BB. Since SMS messages don't go through Exchange, I don't think he could read them.
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 05:12 AM   #4 (permalink)
jdh
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Toronto
Model: 8700
Carrier: Rogers
Posts: 121
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

SMS messages do not travel through the BES, or even through RIM's network - they are sent just like they would be from any other cell phone.

Further, the SMS message database is not backed up to the BES wirelessly. However, if you are backing up your Blackberry to your PC at work (ie, using Blackberry Desktop Manager), then any sent SMS messages that you leave stored on your device will be part of this backup.
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 06:13 AM   #5 (permalink)
Retired BlackBerryForums.com Moderator
 
d_fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Columbus, OH
Model: 9700
OS: SID 6.7
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 4,455
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trncyng
I use a 7100T at work, and we use BES to get our Exchange email. My question is: are my SMS messages--incoming and outgoing--private? Can my BES administrator read them?
All the previous answers are correct assuming that your on BES v4.0 or lower. BUT, starting with BES v4.1 it is possible to log all PIN and SMS/MMS messages. This feature is not enabled by default, so I would suggest that you check with your BES admin for the final answer.

How the BES admin can read the messages, I don't know. The logging feature was added for companies who require the logging of all communications due to regulations. So there must be some way to read them after they are captured.
__________________
Doug

Remember, please try searching first!

Need a screenshot? ... Like JavaLoader?
Try using BBscreen .....Use JL_Cmder!
or BBScreenShooter!

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 08:10 AM   #6 (permalink)
BlackBerry God
 
jibi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Jibi's Secret Place
Model: 8900
OS: 4.6.1.174
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 11,310
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

If SMS auditing/logging/synchronization is enabled, the SMS messages are stored to a .csv file in the daily Logs directory. This is called an auditing feature, and RIM's documentation makes one believe its outbound-only messages, but its actually a synchronization of the local handheld's SMS database and it captures both outbound and inbound messages (atleast from my testing, this is the nature of the synchronization).

An example log:
"Name.ID","Email Address","Type of Message","To","From","Callback Phone Number","Body","Send/Received Date","Server Log Date","Command","UID"

"LastName, FirstName.1","user@company.com","Outgoing","212555 1212","","","*kiss* I just want you to know that you make me very happy :-)","2006/03/15 21:29:43","2006/03/15 16:39:42","Add","-3116956"

"LastName, FirstName.1","user@company.com","Outgoing","212555 1212","","","*kiss* I just want you to know that you make me very happy :-)","2006/03/15 21:29:43","2006/03/15 16:39:48","Update","-3116956"

"LastName, FirstName.1","user@company.com","Incoming","","+12 125551212","","You make me very happy too. We just got to swimming lessons and the swimming cap that i went everywhere to find doesn't fit her big head so i'm going to have to dry her hair again.","2006/03/15 16:44:13","2006/03/15 16:54:21","Add","-2234266"

"LastName, FirstName.1","user@company.com","Incoming","","+12 125551212","","You make me very happy too. We just got to swimming lessons and the swimming cap that i went everywhere to find doesn't fit her big head so i'm going to have to dry her hair again.","2006/03/15 16:44:13","2006/03/15 16:54:28","Update","-2234266"
__________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.

Last edited by jibi : 05-15-2006 at 08:16 AM.
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 09:06 AM   #7 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Model: 7100T
Posts: 2
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Is there anyway of disabling the SMS auditing on the handheld side, even temporarily, so they do not get logged by BES even if the BES SMS audit feature is indeed enabled on the server side?
Is SMS auditing on the server enabled by default for BES 4.1 and newer?
On the handheld, how do I find out the BES version and whether SMS auditing is enabled on the server side without asking and tipping off the administrator that he has such a feature to turn on?
Needlesss to say, we have a very nosy administrator as it is who reads all our email and gleefully holds it against us for various reasons.
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 09:55 AM   #8 (permalink)
Retired BlackBerryForums.com Moderator
 
d_fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Columbus, OH
Model: 9700
OS: SID 6.7
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 4,455
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trncyng
Is there anyway of disabling the SMS auditing on the handheld side, even temporarily, so they do not get logged by BES even if the BES SMS audit feature is indeed enabled on the server side?
No, that would defeat the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trncyng
Is SMS auditing on the server enabled by default for BES 4.1 and newer?
No, by default the auditing is not enabled with BES v4.1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trncyng
On the handheld, how do I find out the BES version and whether SMS auditing is enabled on the server side without asking and tipping off the administrator that he has such a feature to turn on?
I do not believe that you can determine that information from the handheld.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trncyng
Needlesss to say, we have a very nosy administrator as it is who reads all our email and gleefully holds it against us for various reasons.
Unless that is specifically part of your admins job duties, I would consider what he is doing to be unethical and potentially illegal. I do believe that your employer has every right to view your email. I believe it should be done by your manager or maybe a security group, not some rouge admin who gets kicks out of reading other peoples emails.
__________________
Doug

Remember, please try searching first!

Need a screenshot? ... Like JavaLoader?
Try using BBscreen .....Use JL_Cmder!
or BBScreenShooter!

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Last edited by d_fisher : 05-15-2006 at 09:58 AM.
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 10:29 AM   #9 (permalink)
BlackBerry God
 
jibi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Jibi's Secret Place
Model: 8900
OS: 4.6.1.174
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 11,310
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trncyng
On the handheld, how do I find out the BES version and whether SMS auditing is enabled on the server side without asking and tipping off the administrator that he has such a feature to turn on?
There is no method of doing either of these. The administrator would be the only person who knows this information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trncyng
Needlesss to say, we have a very nosy administrator as it is who reads all our email and gleefully holds it against us for various reasons.
To clarify, the first part of the statement about the administrator being 'nosy' - that is likely part of his/her job responsibilities. I know most of our security policies concerning data auditing are dictated by government regulations and compliancies. You, as an employee of a company, should know that your actions on company resources are likely and legally subject to monitoring, especially under the assumption that your company is liable for communications.

Now, with all of that said, if they are actually badgering you or holding that information as future leverage against you, then that would definitely be something to look into taking action against - even as far as legal action. I would start documenting the information or statements from the administrator. Monitoring information could be part of the job responsibility; making a threat to a fellow employee would be definitely against company policies.
__________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 11:44 AM   #10 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Model: 7100
Posts: 5
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Does BES 4.0.37 have this SMS logging feature? This is all very interesting!!!
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 11:52 AM   #11 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
ebgreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Model: 8700
Posts: 160
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd_white
Does BES 4.0.37 have this SMS logging feature? This is all very interesting!!!
Considering that this was posted a few posts above:

Quote:
All the previous answers are correct assuming that your on BES v4.0 or lower. BUT, starting with BES v4.1 it is possible to log all PIN and SMS/MMS messages.
Then I would say that it wasn't all interesting enough for you to read.
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 11:59 AM   #12 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Model: 7100
Posts: 5
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Interesting, last time I checked, 4.0.37 is not lower than 4.0, nor is 4.0.37 equal to 4.1, so that statement by the moderator is a little unclear. But hey, math skills (and manners) are on the decline, they say...
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 12:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Model: 9000
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 154
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trncyng
Is there anyway of disabling the SMS auditing on the handheld side, even temporarily, so they do not get logged by BES even if the BES SMS audit feature is indeed enabled on the server side?
Is SMS auditing on the server enabled by default for BES 4.1 and newer?
On the handheld, how do I find out the BES version and whether SMS auditing is enabled on the server side without asking and tipping off the administrator that he has such a feature to turn on?
Needlesss to say, we have a very nosy administrator as it is who reads all our email and gleefully holds it against us for various reasons.
If you have wireless messaging traffic that you want to keep off the company systems then don't run that traffic over the company haldheld. Get yourself your own device, paid for out of your own pocket, and use that. Trying to circumvent the company system is only going to make life worse for you.

Any modern cell phone is capable of SMS, prepaid or under contract.
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 12:11 PM   #14 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
ebgreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Model: 8700
Posts: 160
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

4.0.37 is less than 4.1. So the statement "starting with BES v4.1..." seems pretty clear to me. I would say not so much math skills as reading comprehension are on the decline.
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 12:22 PM   #15 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Model: 7100
Posts: 5
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Interesting, it is obvious someone's comprehension skills are *indeed* deficient: The moderator said "4.0 or less," which. last time I checked, is not the same as someone saying above "4.0.37 is less than 4.1." Meanwhile the statement "starting with BES v4.1..." while assertive, is ambiguous in conjunction with the 4.0.37 value, as it conflicts with the other assertion that "4.0 or earlier." Sigh. I guess logic skills are also lacking on someone's part (career change needed soon?). However redundant, esp. for good techies, it is always advisable to seek clarification than slavish acceptance (or perhaps pure blind faith os on the increase?), or worse, mere assumption.
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 12:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
ebgreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Model: 8700
Posts: 160
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

4.0 is not ambiguous in the least. It means any version that starts with a four followed by a dot followed by a zero. 4.0.37 starts with a 4, next there is a dot, then there is a zero. I fail to see the ambiguity. If you wish is to avoid mere assumption then you should not be trolling for answers on a forum. You should be reading the docs for the specific BES version in question or contacting RIM directly.
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 12:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Model: 7100
Posts: 5
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by radimus
If you have wireless messaging traffic that you want to keep off the company systems then don't run that traffic over the company haldheld. Get yourself your own device, paid for out of your own pocket, and use that. Trying to circumvent the company system is only going to make life worse for you.

Any modern cell phone is capable of SMS, prepaid or under contract.
Why *not* run over it? If you have a right to private SMS because the company policy allows it (if they allow it), find out, and then use it. Cowardice will just cost you an extra phone to carry around and a bigger hoke in your wallet. Sheesh. No wonder Big Brother is winning.

(Please see the two ifs above before replying childishly. Yes you).
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 12:38 PM   #18 (permalink)
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Model: 7100
Posts: 5
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebgreen
4.0 is not ambiguous in the least. It means any version that starts with a four followed by a dot followed by a zero. 4.0.37 starts with a 4, next there is a dot, then there is a zero. I fail to see the ambiguity. If you wish is to avoid mere assumption then you should not be trolling for answers on a forum. You should be reading the docs for the specific BES version in question or contacting RIM directly.
Aw boohoo, stop wasting others' time with your useless bantering. It's a stretch to say that numbers after a period (always) means an earlier release with any great authority. Anyway, go ahead, prove me the attention-seeking troll: If you have anything more to say to me, I fully welcome private msg. Otherwise I'm not wasting any more text on you. Nor wasting others' time. Unless of course they can either (authoritatively) support or deny any of your statements.
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 12:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
CanuckBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: YYZ
Model: 9900
Carrier: Rogers
Posts: 1,183
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Realize that there is a difference between being allowed private communications, and expecting them to remain private. Being allowed just means that you will not be subject to disciplinary actions if you e-mail/call/SMS your friend. HOWEVER, assume that any action using company resource is subject to logging, archiving and monitoring.
Offline  
Old 05-15-2006, 01:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
BlackBerry God
 
jibi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Jibi's Secret Place
Model: 8900
OS: 4.6.1.174
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 11,310
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

I think the issue with the poster's statement was the fact that it appears their systems administrator is taking a bit too much enjoyment in his position and holding any sort of information over the heads of those being monitored. I guess this could be viewed in two different lights - 1) he could be doing someone a favor if they were slipping up; 2) he could actually be somewhat using said information to his benefit (not really sure what is being offered for his silence though).

But I agree - at the end of the day, if a device is owned by the company or used for company purposes on company-monitored systems, then the information would be subject to company privacy and monitoring policies. Its best to assume that things such as SMS would be logged and audited. If your company is publically traded within the United States, then get used to the thought of Big Brother within the corporate environment.
__________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.
Offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





Copyright 2004-2014 BlackBerryForums.com.
The names RIM and BlackBerry are registered Trademarks of BlackBerry Inc.