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Old 09-11-2004, 09:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Can anyone help me understand how popular BB is in the enterprise space? I have the opportunity to work in sales for a mobile device security company. Their software solution seems to be good for Pocket PC and Palm but not for BB (because they are already considered fairly secure). I live in New England and all the enterprise business people that I am aware of use BBs. Recent market figures show RIM is gaining in market share versus others. So who is using all the Pocket PCs and Palms? Are most of the Fortune 2000 using BBs?
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Old 09-11-2004, 09:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Yes, IMO anyone serious about wireless email with security is using a BB

RIM claims over 15000 major companies are using BES

I work for one of those big companies that has a bunch of BES servers

Security is number one at my company and I wont even forward mail to a handheld unless it is a BlackBerry.

@Stake did an idependant security Audit of the BlackBerry solution (including BES) which you can find here.

http://www.blackberry.com/knowledgec...0&vernum=0

(Opens a PDF file)

You should just get a sales job from RIM ;)

looks like they are hiring all over the world!
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Old 09-11-2004, 09:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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[quote="emale"]RIM claims over 15000 major companies are using BES

quote]

Just had a joint meeting with some RIM folks and that number is now over 24,000.
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Old 09-12-2004, 11:16 AM   #4 (permalink)
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the Gartner's shipment #s still show that Palm and Pocket PC are leading the way with RIM on the rise

who is using all the Palm and Pocket PCs???
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Old 09-12-2004, 12:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Just because they ship more PDA's doesnt necessarily mean they make their way into the enterprise as a pure messaging/data solution. ;)

Lots of people at my work have a palm or PPC, doesnt mean they get their email on them though! We wont forward or allow pop3 access so if they dont have a BlackBerry (which we provide to the right people anyways) then they are out of luck for corporate access.

You cant administer palm's or PPC the way you can with BlackBerry

If I dont want someone to use their phone its simple for me to disallow that but not with any other product (with exception of a few other solutions, Ie: goodlink ect, but the BlackBerry is a better solution)
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Old 09-12-2004, 02:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktm
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the Gartner's shipment #s still show that Palm and Pocket PC are leading the way with RIM on the rise

who is using all the Palm and Pocket PCs???
My opinion is that the palm pda's of old are more of a novelty when compared to a BB.
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Old 09-12-2004, 05:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
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while on the topic of Palms and Pocket PCs.....it seems like most are being used via the "back door" at a lot of enterprises...this must be a security nightmare? any thoughts?
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Old 09-12-2004, 07:12 PM   #8 (permalink)
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RIM is *built* for the enterprise..

having a Blackberry and BES puts your company in the situation where your security model is not jeopardized. Blackberry software will run on your server, and all users connectivity can go through your server similar to how an enterprise trusts a VPN...

Running other devices requires lots of third party software to achieve the same results.. with rim, it's built in, and mature.
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Old 09-12-2004, 07:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headtailgrep
RIM is *built* for the enterprise..
That should be their marketing slogan.
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Old 09-13-2004, 01:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I don't think that the Palm and Pocket platforms are widely adapted in the enterprise marketplace because the model churn is too high with no guarantee that the old software or application they use on it will be supported in a future release.

With the BB it doesn't even matter what carrier they go with anymore, they're all a flat platform.. (For the most part, at least all the new java based systems)
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Old 09-13-2004, 12:37 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Easy. Let's give credit here. Let's concede that iPaq and Palm's make superior multimedia/GPS/video handhelds, but Blackberry makes superior wireless productivity handhelds, with much better software in many cases (i.e. superior email). That matters far more for enterprise use.

I had a debate with a BrightHand user, of which I am quoting below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon
Quote:
Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
>>You'll get better hardware and the same BB functionality, not to mention the flexibilty of an OS like PalmOS or WM2003?
I am an owner of Palm and iPaq handhelds and I can vouch for you that they make excellent multimedia handhelds but poor productive connectivity. While the iPaq still has a better browser, Blackberries make much more reliable wireless productivity handhelds overall. I carry my great looking Stowaway keyboard, and enjoy Bluetooth GPS with my iPaq 4155. It's an excellent handheld, but TRUST ME, the Blackberry is a better wireless productivity handheld, and I have been using it since 2001.

Software. Yes, the Palm and iPaq software is much more varied, and I enjoy MAME, GPS navigation, MPEG videos, JPEG photos, etc. The reality is that the Blackberry has proven to be a faster PIM to access (and I am a fast Grafittier at 41 words per minute on Grafitti!). But don't forget that the formerly below-100 count of Blackberry compatible software has now exceeded 1,000 recently (when you consider Sony/Nokia/Motorola cellphone software also runs on Blackberries now too). With things like word processors and photo viewers and improving videogames now available on BlackBerry, and finally Shockwave FLASH / JavaScript / Popups / Tables / SVG / animated GIF / background graphics / etc in Blackberry Browser 4.0, the browser is no longer anemic. More info about this on BlackberryClub, of course, among us 4.0 beta testers :D

BlackberryOS It's a Sun Java compatible operating system, and is becoming more and more of a legitimate OS. Multimedia stuff are definitely possible nowadays. It may not be as flexible as Palm/PocketPC in some respects, however, it is much more flexible than you think. The reason is because of security. Formerly, Blackberries did not include a real TCP/IP stack and it was very hard to get Blackberry applications written. But now you can just write in generic Java J2ME. Modern Blackberry software such as http://www.dynoplex.com/eWorks.shtml and truecolor fullscreen videogames with SMOOTH animation at http://www.magmic.com .... see for yourself that these are beginning to resemble REAL smartphone software nowadays. It wasn't before -- Blackberries used to not be real smartphone, but it IS now becoming more and more smartphone, now that you can do generic TCP/IP programming using standard Java J2ME sockets and doing the graphics API's. Without even getting the application signed by RIM anymore! (You still need to, for notifications or accessing addressbook, etc -- for security reasons -- please see below)

Ruggedness I am very clumsy with handhelds. I've even broke an iPaq dropping it, and repaired it myself via buying a broken iPaq off eBay and disassembling it, exchanging good parts, to rescue my iPaq again. But, I dropped my Blackberry many times, even to concrete and asphalt, and my Blackberry 7280 has never broken or cracked. It is a testament to the ruggedness of a Blackberry handheld.

PIM It is more simplistic on Berry but it syncs fine to Outlook, and the 4.0 has categories now. Even for a long time, all I have to do is press the addressbook key shortcut, type a partial name, hit Enter, and it's onscreen. No accidental screentaps, no accidental grafitti errors. I thumbtype at about 60 words per minute, compared to Grafitti at 40 words per minute (am a speed demon at both, many people tell me). I can even do address lookups blind now more easily on Blackberry now using QWERTY muscle memory rather than having to stare at the screen and tap. The performance is a bit slow on some models (I especially do not like the Blackberry 7750 which is even slower than the Blackberry 7280)

Never loss of data. Everything is always stored in flash ROM ON THE FLY. No backup batteries needed. Even yank the battery out, put the battery in a week later, even your partially composed email is still in memory!

Long time proven mission critical reliability. This is why NASA uses slower CPU's, 20 Mhz, radiation hardened, like on Mars Rovers. Mission critical reliability. Blackberry (RIM) uses stable technology that may look a little older in some ways but I prefer that. 60 days uptime WITHOUT a soft reset are common with modern BlackberryOS versions (3.7.3 for example), and you need less reception in order to successfully send an email on a Blackberry -- it will automatically sieze the moment of a one bar reception lasting for only 5 seconds, to successfully send a queued email, and download a couple of small emails pending push to it. Even the best software I've seen on the other handhelds still doesn't provide the persistent reliable push email, even though what I have seen of Good IS getting a lot better than it used to be;

Longer lasting always-on Internet. Also, can you run a server on your handheld for 100 hours nonstop, with the screen always powered on? You cannot do that with a PalmOS or iPaq handheld. Blackberries can run server applications and client applications, and have a built-in firewall that can be turned on/off. For example, WebMessenger, has alerted me to AIM/MSN/Yahoo messages with the screen always on (no standby buttons and no power buttons on BlackBerry, since you can just let it idle fully powered up, and it'd last for days and days).

Security. Even sysadmins can remotely admin Blackberries now, and prevent installation of third party software or any other security breaches, or disable changing the options on the Blackberry from remotely, or even remotely lobotomize the Blackberries when stolen (important for government people too). There are third party solutions that help a Palm and iPaq that helps with some of these, but they are not quite as good.

Keyboard. Thumb keyboards on the Blackberries are known to be the best in the industry, with most people who tried multiple thumb keyboards, preferring the feel of a Blackberry thumb keyboard of a modern BlackBerry. (Mind you, I hated the 957 and 5810 thumb keyboards due to keys being flush, but the 950 was excellent, as is my 7280 with the properly rasied hard keys with excellent tactile feedback). Some thumb keyboards such as those on the iPaq 4350 is fairly good I find, but the 4350 is not GSM/GPRS.

Trust me. I've been using PDA's since 1997, and I am a speed demon with the stylus, and I can assure and agree with you the iPaq and Palm's are amazing and better multimedia handhelds. But the Blackberry are still better wireless productivity handhelds overall, even compared to the best push-email Treo using Goodlink and similiar. In fact, even if the emails were exactly the same, the other factors (battery, ruggedness, security from tampering, never loss of data, etc) guarantees that the Blackberry is better when the whole package is more important than the ability to run over 10,000 different software programs. But Blackberry software is not puny simple applications anymore, they are now 16-bit full color full screen smoothly-animating 30fps graphics applications (Magmic is an excellent example, as well as BlackberryOS 4.0 Brickbreaker, as well as a few new games just recently released) already now running on my handheld; it's not the grandfather's 1-bit monochrome Blackberry. The fact that there are now finally multiple different programs to choose between for one purpose (i.e. four different instant messaging software programs). YES, multiple PIM's now (no longer need to be stuck with Blackberry's own). Yes, now actually several open-source SourceForge projects that now run out of the box -- tested from Over-The-Air download straight to my Blackberry TODAY, is a big improvement over yesterday's Blackberry anemic software listing. Yes, Palm and iPaq still has more software, but you have not taken a look at how Blackberry software has started to really take off lately, and now provides a minimum choice to satisfy wireless productivity essentials (i.e. many choices of instant messaging now, and many telnet/ssh clients now available, etc). This is just mere icing on the cake, since the priority is reliable wireless productivity with better peace of mind of longer battery, ruggedness, security, reliability, easier administration, and safety from data-loss. Even though a few hurdles are being solved with iPaq and Palm, it is still not there.

I argue that Blackberries now belong more in the smartphones category today than simply handheld organizers, unlike yesterday's BlackBerries. Even BrightHand agrees with me, Blackberry is in the photo of the top of the Smartphones link. Yes, Blackberry development trails iPaq/Palm development, but for very good reason as you can read from all the above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon
Quote:
Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
>>You'll get better hardware
Only in performance, programming flexibility, and screen quality (although with the exception of newer 77XX transflective 16 bit color screens which look similiar to my iPaq screen, photos in the photo viewer look pretty good now on those; there ARE now photo viewers on Blackberry nowadays)

But definitely not in ruggedness, data-loss prevention, battery life, thumb keyboard, security, idiot-proofing, ease of adminstration, theft security with remotely triggered self-destruct, roaming reliability, etc. Blackberry doesn't even have a power button because the worry is pretty much eliminated. It's always ready for action, far more worry-free. And you never hear of data loss complaints on Blackberry handhelds!

I should update my statistics -- Blackberry subscribers are now at about 1.5 million, according to representatives. An earlier article showed 1.3 million if I remember, but that was a while back. That's active wireless subscribers, not exaggerated number of handhelds (like abandoned older models of Blackberries like the 950 pagers, even though some of those still remain in use today, and does not include upgrades from older Blackberries to newer Blackberries, which means more than 1.5 million units sold, just 1.5 million active subscribers). They are predicting 2 million by end of year, and 3 million by end of 2005. That's a significant marketshare improvement among smartphones (I again argue that Blackberries are smartphones nowadays.)

As for 50% prosumers, that was quoted from a RIM representative at some point. I'd have to dig it up. There was also a news article that mentioned that the ratio of prosumers to corporate is rising as Blackberries start to appeal to consumers more. Obviously, some people will prefer to run MAME or use a cameraphone, but I obviously prefer wirelss productivity (and that's not just email too!)

Did you know that my BlackBerry gets 85% use and my iPaq 15% use, even with GPS?
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Old 09-13-2004, 01:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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These numbers are staggering and impressive. However, doesn't surprise me one bit. You find the cool game stuff and pretty pictures with the other guys, but when you want to take care of business, you run to the BB
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Old 09-13-2004, 02:11 PM   #13 (permalink)
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My point wasn't to bash the iPAQ at all, I have a 5455 and it's a great unit, however it was not great for on the go access to corporate information.

I know companies like Lanier that base their dispatch system off of a peice of software written to run on the blackberries and interface with their back end system, they depend on platform predictibility because they sink ALOT of cash on getting a custom package like that written and maintained.

Also, from my standpoint, the BB OS is more stable than the handheld OS that's available today.

Just my $.005
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Old 09-13-2004, 04:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
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That's definitely true, with the frequently reported 60+ day nonstop uptimes without soft resets and such. (Especially for OS 3.7.3 -- not for the unreleased beta OS 4.0 just yet)
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Old 09-14-2004, 10:15 AM   #15 (permalink)
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There is a Blackberry Group devoted to nothing but Blackberry in the enterprise: www.ibbug.org simply because the BB's #1 market is in the enterprise and there is no support site the does just enterprise support.

Aside from the stuff we all use (email, web browsers and games, whatever) the beauty of the Blackberry is in it's ability to use your internal BES server to connect to and admin your windows/unix equipment (3rd party tools) as well as to connect field techs to your dispatch/work order / knowledge base (IBM techs use the BB to open adn close tickets as well as to look up troubleshooting information on their internal site.) Because of their always on hardware they are perfect devices for this.

Also - do not forget that you can control the BES using system policy scripts to further secure the BB in the enterprise - take that PPC and Palm.

Now I have a PPC (5455) and it is an excellent pocket multimedia machine, great for word, excel and powerpoint docs, but really bad for email and not so good for web browsing - and forget about a cell link for wireless - just a pain.

The only thing I would like to see on the BlackBerry is a simple (ListPro) database program.
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Old 09-14-2004, 10:52 AM   #16 (permalink)
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BB's are quickly becoming a hit in our company...all of the execs are getting them just for the always on connectivity to what's going on. Especially when they can do it from overseas without a single problem.

Eventually, I envision our sales folks getting them so that they can communicate real-time back to the home office about prospects, etc in detail.

The possibilities are endless.
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Old 09-14-2004, 01:40 PM   #17 (permalink)
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From what I've gathered just from my personal experience, viewing others withBB's and other devices, there is no alternative. I f you want to stay in touch in a small form factor, this is the only answer. Maybe down the road for the other folks, but I don't see it any time soon.
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Old 09-14-2004, 01:47 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Just about anyone with a govt job in DC has one...
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Old 09-14-2004, 02:28 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Once agin, not aurprised
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