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Old 03-27-2005, 09:44 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Convince me to Switch from Treo 650

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I have a Treo 650 on Cingular and am not happy with it. Too buggy, and it just does not weok well as a phone. I am going to dump it and either go back to my Moto v551 (and wait for a better PDA), or get a Blackberry. The Blackberry that I am considering is the 7100g. I am attracted to it because it has the most "phone-like" layout, and I think it will be easiest to use as a phone. My main uses are phone and email, and it is important to me to have my calendar up to date and all my contacts. I played with the 7100g, and the SureType keyboard seemed to work very well.

Anyway, I want to be convinced that this is the way to go. Here are my concerns:

(1) Price. While the intial price is a lot less than my unlocked Treo, the monthly costs are much higher. My unlimited data plan is $19.95 and I pay an extra $2.00 per month to Mailstreet (my Exhange Server Hosting Service) for ActiveSynch. Blackberry would be $44.95 per month plus $9.95 per month to Mailstreet. That is a difference of $32.95 per month, or 395.40 per year. It is unclear to me if this would include unlimited data/sms, or whether that would be yet an additional expense. Cingular CSR is terrible, and it is hard to get a handle on this.

(2) Family Plan. It appears as though you cannot get a Cingular Family Plan on Blackberry. That means my wife's phone is no longer $9.95 per month, but something like $40 a month. I am unclear if this is the case however. Does anyone have the Cingular Family Plan with a Blackberry.

(3) Attachments. Will the BB open and allow edits to attachments such as Word and Excel, and allow other attachments to be viewed, such as pdf and jpeg.

(4) Useability. Is it easy to use as a phone and email appliance. For me, the wheel seemed to be on the wrong side, because I always talk with my left hand and ear. Holding it in my right hand, and using my right thumb, seemed clumsy to me. The whole wheel thing seems foreign. Also, how is it to type on in real world useage? How is the Bluetooth implementation, and the speakerphone? I am very unhappy with the Treo's speakerphone and handset volume, and the BT is terrible. Id the screen bright (that is a major plus for the Treo) and viewable in sunlight.

I appreciate the thoughts of anyone who made it this far. I need to be convinced that the 7100g is the way to go.

Knocka
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Old 03-27-2005, 09:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Here's a great starting point loaded with info: BlackBerry Myths Busted! The Modern 2005-Era BlackBerry (for Palm/PocketPC users)
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Old 03-27-2005, 11:28 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knocka
(1) Price. While the intial price is a lot less than my unlocked Treo, the monthly costs are much higher. My unlimited data plan is $19.95 and I pay an extra $2.00 per month to Mailstreet (my Exhange Server Hosting Service) for ActiveSynch. Blackberry would be $44.95 per month plus $9.95 per month to Mailstreet. That is a difference of $32.95 per month, or 395.40 per year. It is unclear to me if this would include unlimited data/sms, or whether that would be yet an additional expense. Cingular CSR is terrible, and it is hard to get a handle on this.

(2) Family Plan. It appears as though you cannot get a Cingular Family Plan on Blackberry. That means my wife's phone is no longer $9.95 per month, but something like $40 a month. I am unclear if this is the case however. Does anyone have the Cingular Family Plan with a Blackberry.
These two reasons alone - without the functionality concerns - seem to have already made up your mind about the 7100g, in my opinion. That is, unless you just happen to have money magically floating around and not really caring, which could be the case. But for Average Joe User, I think that the above two reasons would be deal breakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knocka
(3) Attachments. Will the BB open and allow edits to attachments such as Word and Excel, and allow other attachments to be viewed, such as pdf and jpeg.
Without 3rd party software (another additional cost to you - more than $100 from DynoPlex), you can only open up attachments and view them - no editing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knocka
(4) Useability. Is it easy to use as a phone and email appliance. For me, the wheel seemed to be on the wrong side, because I always talk with my left hand and ear. Holding it in my right hand, and using my right thumb, seemed clumsy to me. The whole wheel thing seems foreign. Also, how is it to type on in real world useage? How is the Bluetooth implementation, and the speakerphone? I am very unhappy with the Treo's speakerphone and handset volume, and the BT is terrible. Id the screen bright (that is a major plus for the Treo) and viewable in sunlight.
I find it easy to use as a phone and email appliance, yes. I am right-handed and tend to use the handset with my right hand, unless I'm typing (which is then used with both hands - you learn to use your index finger on the trackwheel for the suggestive sure-type correcting). To add about the placement of the wheel, its a training thing... you would get used to it after a few days/weeks of using it (like anything else that you'd use on a regular basis). I do not use Bluetooth (btw, its a voice-only implementation, so no data synchronizations over BT), but there are many topics on here discussing it. From what I've read, it doesn't support some more advanced BT functions, but for basic purposes, its all there. The speakerphone is perhaps one of the best in the industry, on any device. Lastly, in direct sunlight, you can just throw your arms up and let the handset go during the follow-through (I think RIM created the handset in a cave or something, because the lighting is wonderful, but you cannot see the screen in direct sunlight).
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Old 03-27-2005, 04:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I have my wifes phone on a t-mobile family paln $40 for 400 minuts unlimited nights/weekends + 19:95 for the unlimited BB
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Old 03-27-2005, 04:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'd seriously try testing out the 7290 along with the 7100. There are some advantages to the 7290:
- Much better outdoor visiblity
- Full keyboard, better for two-thumb typing
- Longer battery life

The 7100 has advantages as a phone form factor, though, and easier to type one-handed. So I recommend testing out both devices.
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Old 03-27-2005, 04:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Without 3rd party software (another additional cost to you - more than $100 from DynoPlex), you can only open up attachments and view them - no editing.
Don't forget cheaper products that arrived, such as the $29.95 MiniExcel spreadsheet.

Also, if you only want the Dynoplex Word-compatible word processor, it's $59.95

Yes, still high, but not "over $100"
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Old 03-27-2005, 05:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon
and easier to type one-handed.
err, no. perhaps easier to type one-handed and hope that you end up with what you thought you typed. after you learn the keyboard on the full qwerty devices (72xx, etc), you can use one hand and no eyes and be just about 100% sure that you typed everything correctly.

just my opinion, of course. the suretype is a wonderful advancement, but its far from perfect. a person cannot respond to an email and drive w/o taking their eyes off the road with a 7100 device. this is why i'm a safer driver now since i put down my 6710 in favor of the 7100... i simply don't reply to emails these days, so both eyes are on the road and atleast one hand is on the wheel (unless my girlfriend is in the car, of course).
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Old 03-27-2005, 06:10 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jibi
err, no. perhaps easier to type one-handed and hope that you end up with what you thought you typed. after you learn the keyboard on the full qwerty devices (72xx, etc), you can use one hand and no eyes and be just about 100% sure that you typed everything correctly.

just my opinion, of course. the suretype is a wonderful advancement, but its far from perfect. a person cannot respond to an email and drive w/o taking their eyes off the road with a 7100 device. this is why i'm a safer driver now since i put down my 6710 in favor of the 7100... i simply don't reply to emails these days, so both eyes are on the road and atleast one hand is on the wheel (unless my girlfriend is in the car, of course).
Actually, I work in an environment where nearly everyone uses BlackBerries of all kinds, so I was able to try out most models of BlackBerry. I clearly found that one-handed typing was so much easier on the 7100 series, despite the potential for errors. (For the 7100 series, I just type without looking at the screen, so I don't get distracted by the on-the-fly SureType guesses, and only glance quickly after every few words...)

Dialing phone on the 7100 is much easier while driving, since you can thumb-touch-type 10-digit keypad without worrying about SureType, as long as you're in the phone application.

Usually, most people don't write emails while driving! :D If this was the case, yes, writing emails while driving is safer with the 7290 than the 7100... (Not recommended!), unless of course, the difficulty of replying to emails on the 7100 while driving, causes you to avoid replying to emails more... (as you just said)

(Note: As a deaf guy that is not a BlackBerry phone user, I'm occasionally guilty of writing emails and using VeriChat for "I'll be home in half an hour" type of messages while driving -- but I am a thumb touch typist and can type on thumb keyboards without looking at the unit itself at all, so I can keep my eyes on the road while typing my text, but even while I am driving, I'm typing using both thumbs, with the BlackBerry held at the middle of the top of the wheel with my forearms resting against the wheel.... I wouldn't recommend this, everyone! I do not think this type of usage is the norm. Therefore, I think the 7100 is safer for phone use inside the car, and probably discourages even attempting to do emails in the car, unless you're using some kind of alternative dialing mechanism)
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Old 03-27-2005, 07:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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yeah, i only have one good eye that i can look with... so i choose either a) look somewhere else, such as my blackberry or b) look at the road and traffic. now you know why i've had 11 wrecks in my 9 year driving history?
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Old 03-27-2005, 09:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I had a Treo 650 for a few weeks, but got rid of it and went to a 7100g just a week ago. A few short timer observations on both. the Treo was nice, but lousy speakerphone (which I use a lot - the 'g's is FAR better). I found the PalmOne software buggy (couldn't get the desktop app to work at all on my WinXP home edition, although it seemed to work fine on Win2000 at work. I had a heck of a time getting anyone to answer anything to do with corporate email (specifically Lotus Domino) with PalmOne, but LOTS of stuff on BB. See other posts for other features on the Treo not on the BBs (MP3, camera, yadda yadda), all stuff that I don't put a high priority on, altho downloading SW is a biggie for me. Hope this isn't too much of a repeat of other posts, but since I have recent experience with both, thot I'd jump in.
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Old 04-03-2005, 08:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Treo 650 and BB 7290

About a month ago I converted my AT&T Nokia cell phone to a Treo 650 with Cingular. My Palm V was just about dead and I figured I could replace 2 marginal devices with a new phone/PDA. It took most of a weekend to get the Treo 650 setup and once I got there I found a poor speakerphone, the cell phone also wasn't very loud. The software in the Treo 650 is about 80% of the way there but sometimes when opening an application or using the cellphone, the phone would just reboot for no reason. The battery life was also just OK. However, the big problem for me was email. The Palm really has no ability to push email well...you have to use something like a gmail account to place corporate emails and then manually pick up the emails. Sometimes, you can receive emails but the ISP will refuse your replies. The Treo keyboard was really too small to type with, I used my fingernails most of the time. After wrestling with this for 3 weeks I swapped the Treo 650 for a Blackberry 7290. The first observation was that the email system is totally slick and really works seemlessly. The phone is nice and loud and after I found a way to move my Palm address book into the 7290, the email and phone functions work great. Battery life is awesome...after 4-5 hours of talk time and email all day I still have 45-50% battery life at the end of a day. I really like using the Palm as a PDA with the Palm desktop so I bought a Tungsten 5 for the balance of the PDA functions. Very happy now!
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Old 08-30-2005, 01:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The Treo 650 has old phone technology. It loses 10 decibels of signal just by using it next to your head.

The following is a report I wrote for my boss, after 1 week of using the Treo 650. That was back in early June. I just got my blackberry back and I'm the happiest employee.

Treo 650 report

Pros

- Digital camera
- Games
- Large, bright color screen
- Cingular XpressMail remote document retrieval
- Speakerphone
- Expansion card slot
- Bluetooth

Cons

- Arrow keypad doesn't work on some applications
- Lower battery life
- Network status changes make Treo light up. This wastes battery life. No option can be set to turn this feature off.
- Call log: arrow keypad doesn't work in this application, forcing user to use stylus and therefore 2 hands. If you have the protective cover, you're forced to take it off to use the stylus.
- If you're browsing the web -more specifically entering information into a form- and you receive a call, all information you had entered is lost. When you go back to the web browser, the page is downloaded again.
- The phone application does not allow you to dial letters (1-800-CALL-ATT). If phone # in Contacts has letters, these are ignored
- Contacts: Extension numbers are ignored when calling a number
- Phone/call log and messaging applications are totally separate. You can't send an SMS to a contact that you have just called.
side button, phone button lose settings. Phone button stops pulling up outgoing call log. Side button stops pulling web browser.
- Versamail: if SMTP server requires authentication and user doesn't specify this when setting up the account, phone crashes every time user attempts to retrieve email.
- Xpressmail: mailbox pulls messages without headers. You cannot reply or view message dates or subject without headers.
- Contacts: contacts are restricted to only 1 category. Category names must have under 15 characters. If you add a new contact on the phone and attach it to a category, it's transferred to Outlook as a different category with the truncated name
- Dropped calls increase. Please see palmOne Support Knowledge Library website Article ID: 28865
- Voice mail on phone application's favorites loses settings, making you unable to retrieve your messages
- Can't send SMS to number unless marked as Mobile telephone number on address book
- Keyword search "Find" is case sensitive, deterring search capabilities in calendar
- Can't keyword search "Find" call log
- Can't keyword search "Find" SMS Messages
- Stylus required for many applications, requires two-hands to be operated
- Two cables: one for charging, the other for Hotsync. Cable is non-standard USB, making user unable to sync or charge phone unless he/she is carrying both cables at all times
- Calendar doesn't set reminder alarms by default (as outlook does) and there are no options to set it automatically or set a default alarm time.
- Daily alarm has no option not to work on weekends
- XpressMail doesn't support email filters to deter spam, or set up custom folders
- XpressMail doesn't support custom folders
- XpressMail has poor integration with Palm Address Book. Allows only last name search and is case-sensitive, making it hard to find contacts.
- Some street addresses are being truncated by the Treo and then Hotsync'ed back into Outlook
- Contacts has a limit of creating only 15 categories
- Contacts has poor integration with email (both Versamail and XpressMail). User cannot email a contact from the address book.
- XpressMail can only look up contacts by last name
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Old 08-30-2005, 01:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'm not sure about the other issues, but whoever told you that you can't have a Blackberry on a family plan with Cingular is lying. That was true with AT&T, but I'm using my BB on a family plan right now with Cingular. So are most of my buddies.
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Old 08-30-2005, 01:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
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WOW sn00py, that a pretty impressive Cons list. I didn't know about half of those. Go Blackberry!

As for my two cents, I'll keep it simply. I haven't been impressed by a piece of technology since I bought my first Mac in 2000. The Blackberry is simply one of the best devices on the market. Mind you, I came from Palm OS and thought I'd be with it for some time longer but my Blackberry won me over. I was "scared" that if I got a Blackberry to eliminate my phone + PDA that I'd be dissappointed and end up having to carry my PDA around with me but it is the exact opposite. Since I got my BB, my Palm is sitting on my desk gathering dust. Now, in the future, I might pick up the Tungsten T5 if the drop WiFI into it for when I need a little more power for things; it will be on days that my backpack is with me. But other than that, my BB is my mobile companion.
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Old 08-30-2005, 03:08 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Without Goodlink, Intellisync and some of the other alternatives. The Treo 650 is merely a terrible device. You have to compare apples to apples and of courese these losers here especilly JIBI is full of Sh1t. I will try using the Treo with a hosted exchange if you dont want to use your corporates server. I will assure that you will fall back in love with the best smartphone on the market today. The email pager of Blackberry is simply what it is. OF course you wont have trouble with a pager(it has simple technology).

Why did Cisco drop the BB as their solution? Ask these questions.
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Old 08-30-2005, 06:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ace_2005
Without Goodlink, Intellisync and some of the other alternatives. The Treo 650 is merely a terrible device. You have to compare apples to apples and of courese these losers here especilly JIBI is full of Sh1t. I will try using the Treo with a hosted exchange if you dont want to use your corporates server. I will assure that you will fall back in love with the best smartphone on the market today. The email pager of Blackberry is simply what it is. OF course you wont have trouble with a pager(it has simple technology).

Why did Cisco drop the BB as their solution? Ask these questions.
ace, stop criticizing Jibi. I see you love to make personal attacks. First remember this is a blackberry forum so you will find many blackberry enthusiasts. He is been here helping a lot of folks. Try to make your point in a constructive manner and refrain from cheap shots like this.

And by the way, Blackberry is not a pager anymore. It once used to be. I hope you read Mark's post on blackberry myths dispelled and elighten yourself. And also BES is used in far far more places than Goodlink. So stop that BS about the Cisco thing you keep making in every other post.

Last edited by bbmember : 08-30-2005 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 08-30-2005, 07:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Foolhardy, mentally challenged, nucklehead, nincomcoops.

You know I am relatively new here, and I have to say this, if it had not been for this forum I would not have been able to move forward with this device. The help I have recived here has been tremendous, and unrelentless because others want to see us succeed, there have been many people here like: jibi, jwaters, dawg, rcrivera, and I can go on and on, and I apologize for anyone not mentioned here, but I am angered by people like ace_2005 who are given a voice here and use it for discord. People like jibi and the others mentioned and not mentioned here, do not have to do this, they do it out of the kindness of their heart, I applaud them and commend them. The discouraging remarks ace_2005 makes does not deter them, that to me demonstrates class, care, and compassion.

Ace you do not need to be here, if the forum angers you or bothers you, please leave or at the very least refrain yourself from trying to discourage. If you do not like BlackBerry and prefer Treo, good for you and I hope it is all you want it to be and then some. Please go to a Treo forum and tout and blow your horn there, we dont need you here, we dont want you here, and if I had a vote in this matter I would suggest youd be banned, but the moderators of this group are far better individuals than I am and they allow you to stay. bbmember I agree with you, and I somehow wish that this lot of malcontent and malfeasance be dealt a substancial powerful blow to eliminate from our midsts the foolhardy, mentally challenged, nucklehead, nincomcoops that do not have better things to do with their time.
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Old 08-31-2005, 10:51 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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So stop that BS about the Cisco thing you keep making in every other post.
Not BS.
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Old 08-31-2005, 01:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Uh, yeah, actually it is BS. Using "Because so-and-so did it!" is not a valid argument. Hence, BS.
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Old 09-01-2005, 09:37 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrogers
Uh, yeah, actually it is BS. Using "Because so-and-so did it!" is not a valid argument. Hence, BS.
Actually, seeing several Cisco reps with a Treos IS a valid argument. Hence, not BS.
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