Help! Verizon sent me a replacement 8703e with the previous owner's private data still on it. Plus now Verizon wants me to relinquish my broken, unwiped original 8703e. What to do?

Verizon Wireless sent me a reworked, second-hand 8703e, or "Field Replacement Unit" (FRU) 8703e, to replace my 8703e that melted down after just 60 days use. Yet the Verizon replacement arrived -- and this I find alarming -- with the previous owner's private data STILL ON IT.

From the previous owner, the 8703e still contained:
* Two active -- and quite accessible -- email accounts. One a yahoo e

* All the emails of those accounts

* All her personal contacts

* All her calendar events for October and November, 2006

* All her logged calls

* All other data, unwiped.


Imagine a stranger having full access to everything on your BB! Think of the access that individual would likely attain from it to other parts of your life.

I find this alarms, shocks, and chaps the hell out of me on so many levels. I strongly believe in the protection and safeguarding of individuals private information. Yet, Verizon has allowed this infringement to occur.

It seems quite easy to envision how this occurs all the time. Perhaps even as the norm, not the exception.

An aside: I had hoped I would not report a "Part 4" to my Verizon 8703e woes. No luck. For backstory, read post: 397864.

Another aside: one painful part, this fricking switchover of my account has not occurred successfully on the FRU 8703e. Verizon has left me with a crippled, only-half functioning data networked device.

What I have done with the unwiped 8703e:
* First, I made a full backup of the previous owner's 8703e data.

* Wiped clean the phone, reinstalled BB OS so I could get it working and use it. (Still not fully data enabled, even after 2 hours with Tech Support.)

* Contacted Verizon Tech. and notified them they irresponsibly sent me the previous owner's private data, told them her name, and told them I intended to contact her and inform her about Verizon's carelessness.

* Took the full back up and emailed it to the previous owner (on her yahoo account) and notifed her of how Verizon had compromised her privacy. I included some plain text examples, to authenticate her private information about which I wrote. I also strongly encouraged her to contact Verizon and drop the hammer on them (hell, contact an attorney).


Question: What more should I do?


But HELP! Here enters my dilemma on this:
* I now have two 8703e's, my initial broken one, and the FRU one. Verizon now expects me to ship MY original phone back to them. It had a hardware malfunction, seemed to meltdown. It does not respond to anything, and that includes the ability to ERASE MY OWN PRIVATE DATA within it. I cannot wipe it clean if I must return ship it in exchange for the FRU one.

* This private data of mine includes: my personal contact information, communications, calendars, and records, not to mention confidential and private information about my clients. Once they repair it, they would likely have full access to it.

* Plus, as demonstrated with the replacement phone Verizon sent me, Verizon does not seem like it would hesitate to send it on to some other customer. With my private data..


Question: What options do I have?
* The way I see it: there's no way in hell I can send my phone to them if they cannot wipe the memory. Especially due to the client privacy issues.

* But, I do not want to eat the cost with which Verizon will slap me if I keep both. I don't even know how much that would run.


Thanks
-Andrew

andrew thanx for the alarming post. it looks like none of the gurus are out and about just keep bumping this post to the top. I do not have the answer, however the gurus will!! maybe they will be able to help you wipe the data from your BB. hang tight

also it does scare me that a company that large would be that irresponsible. the damage you could do with the info they gave you. luckily most, not all, BB owners are like you. CONCERNED!

kayos72: Thanks for the positive feed back, I appreciate it.

seriously that scares the crap out of me on my bb I have bank account numbers 5 accounts, all my personal data its scary they would do this. Thanx for being a stand up individual and doing the right thing.

Glad to report that the original owner of the FRU 8703e had just responded to my contact email to her.

She says she, too, is shocked that Verizon did this, and did not delete her information from the device. Says she plans to contact Verizon tomorrow and address what has happened, which sounds like a smart move to my ears. She said thank you for bringing this to her attention, which I felt happy to do.

Off to sleep...

bump

Well, it's a sad state of affairs, but if you have personal data on your broken 8703e that MUST NOT be compromised, I think your only safe option is to take a sledgehammer to it and eat the cost. Do you really trust Verizon to properly wipe it, no matter how much they may assure you they will?

You may also try to insist they send the same unit back to you after repair (write down the ESN before you send it out). However I doubt they would commit to this, it is simply not their normal workflow.

I'll admit that this is speculation, but I highly doubt Verizon or RIM will attempt repair of your broken unit if it is a hardware failure. It is simply not cost effective to repair most consumer electronics these days.

I would contact their support group and tell them you're concerns after having received one full of information.

As a last resort if you have to send it back maybe expose it to some magnetic fields that might currupt the data? (Stick to to a big old speaker magnet overnight?) I don't know if that will work but it might be worth a try.

bvandrasik: I begin to come to grips that I cannot send my original, inoperable 8703e to Verizon unless I can confirm I have wiped and erased its contents. To return this device -- let alone any data populated, unwiped device -- to the vendor seems to leave me and my clients' private information far too vulnerable for someone's misuse or abuse.

The sledgehammer, as you suggest, or the parts shelf may remain the least worse option here. Sad.

I become quite interested to hear what Verizon will say about this conundrum. In particular, if I refuse to return the original broken 8703e, and opt to keep the second-hand FRU 8703e too, I wonder how they will respond.

If Verizon attempts to charge me for the FRU 8703e as an additional purchase, how much will they say I must pay? The same amount as a brand new 8703?

If that becomes the case, it would seem foolish to even consider keeping the second-hand FRU 8703e; I can turn around and buy an actual brand new 8703e, instead. I would wipe clean the FRU 8703e, since, with it, I actually can wipe it clean and feel confident none of my private information remains contained in it, and ship that back to them.

Yet, I would feel surprised if Verizon could charge me the same amount for the FRU 8703e as a new one. First of all, it's pre-used, second-hand. Second, the FRU phone arrives to a customer with NOTHING but the phone. It comes with:

* No accessories, holster, box, charger, etc.

* No CD-ROM software.

* No manuals. No instructions. No guides.

* No battery. (You must swap the one out of the broken phone and use it in the FRU phone. Gosh, sure better hope a faulty battery didn't contribute to your meltdown malfunction.)

* Not even a back cover to the phone! Again, Verizon expects you to use the one from your broken phone. (Does anyone else find this absurd?)

* But wait, it did come with one instruction. On the Customer Receipt that came within the box, it read, "Please refer to the yellow brochure titled 'Important Information Needed to Activate You Phone' for step-by-step instructions." However, no yellow sheet of instructions, let alone any sheet of instruction, came in the box. Instructions to no instructions?


So, to think that Verizon would attempt to charge the same retail amount for this would surprise me. Or rather, let me say it would strike me as unjustified.

How much might they attempt to charge me? Does anyone on the BBForums have a good guess as to what, if anything, Verizon could justify to charge me for this? A good guess of the value of a second-hand, FRU 8703e?

It makes wonder though, on the hypothetical chance that Verizon would attempt to charge me the full retail price of a new 8703e, what does that say about the value of it warrantee? Meaning, if your phone breaks with all your info still on it, and you refuse to risk compromising your privacy by sending it to them for repair or replacement, then that leaves you with no option but to eat the cost of buying a new device. Which suggests that the warrantee becomes worthless, to my eyes.

Or, have I missed something here?

Thanks for the feedback!
-Andrew

The magnet method would only work with magnetic media, ie. tape...even with a hard drive you would have to have such a huge magnet you might have to go to the crane at the junk yard. I believe our blackberries have solid state disks which to my knowledge cannot be erased by a magnet.

Good luck with your efforts, but like posted above, the only viable solution may be the sledgehammer erase method and eating the cost, in the long run the cost would be worth it.

I agree, the cost of eating it would seemed far less than the potential cost of handing my private information to strangers, unprotected, and with no legal recourse if abused.

Interesting. In software development, we sign non-disclosure agreements with clients to protect their privacy. In medicine, we have doctor-patient confidentiality to protect the patient's. In law, we have attorney-client priviledge for the client's. In corporations, we also bind ourselves to non-disclosure agreements when employed.

But nowhere have I seen a wireless provider include in its contract anything close to addressing confidentiality nor privacy. Nowhere have I seen that it will safeguard my private information xor champion my confidentiality. I'm their client, their bread-and-butter, to the tune of over $1300/year for the network alone, hardware aside. Perhaps with such high demand utilities, reality dictates their loss without it becomes insignificant to their bottom line.

The skeptic in me says, "Maybe I should begin encryting EVERYTHING digital. Chop, chop!"

Thanks!

Yep, you are correct. Well I guess we're down to the sledgehammer option. It's a shame a company has that little concern for peoples privacy.

Okay, time for a quiz!

Question: How much will Verizon charge you for a second-hand, reworked 8703e if you refuse to return the broken original 8703e?

Anyone? Anyone?

The Answer: Full retail price. $469.

Thanks for playing.

Have you tried using JavaLoader to wipe the 8703e? Even if the display is functioning, it might be possible to wipe the device. Look for JL_Cmder by d_fisher. That will make it very easy for you.

andrew did you get anywhere on this. I would like to know the solution for future reference. PM me or pin if you are using the new phone!!!

I think you have to take it back to a retail outlet and deal with the manager. Unless you are sure it can be wiped or they wipe there. Did you pay with a CC. Maybe you can still charge it back or make a warranty claim.

This whole situation really sucks. I guess this is one more reason to make sure we put a password on the BB. According to my BB Rep, this can;t be broken without wiping the handset and if you enter the wrong Password 10 times it wipes it automagically.

Andrew - Please let us know what happens in the end.

Dan

I use a place called BBRepair.com and have sent Blackberries to be repaired by them with data on it. They have called me and asked what I wanted done with the data. I told them to wipe it. You could send your Blackberry off to them to get repaired or at least see how much it would cost to get it repaired. They might even be able to wipe the data for you so you can send it back to Verizon.

I have used the program JL_loader to wipe a BB that did not respond to anything. you will end up with a 507 error when done indicating all software is gone. One of the forum members made the program. It may work on yours also.
As for the replacement having other info, i would call the other user if possible and let them complain also.

do a search for the java loader program. you will get all the info on it

schaefermt: Thanks for the suggestion, I appreciate it, and it's a good one.

However, I have galvanized my resolve that I will not, under any circumstances, return my original phone. Thanks!

Trav's: Yes, I got somewhere with this, thanks for following up with me.

This frustating Verizon 8703e ordeal has taken a couple interesting turns during this last day. Let me scribble some of it down and post it shortly.

-Andrew

BB Peoples,

Since this point yesterday when Verizon told me it would charge me retail price, $470, for the second-hand, reworked bare-bones, batteryless 8703e if I refused to return my broken (and un-wiped) one for the swap, a few interesting things have occurred.

They played out in this order, which I'll entitle:
1. The Math of Dropping Verizon
2. High Up, More Reasonable
3. "Hi, I'm Calling from Verizon's Legal Department"


***** 1. The Math of Dropping Verizon *****

What? $470 to keep still-not-fully-fuctioning used 8703e? Ha! Absurd. I can buy a new 8703e from Verizon for that. I have zero desire to shuck out that chunk yet again only 60 days after purchasing the first one that melted down. Though its appears cheaper than unzipping my fly, so to speak, and handing over me and my clients' private information to possible irresponsible leaking.

But wait. It costs only $175 to drop the Verizon contract. And I can purchase a brand new BB 8703e from Sprint (yes, the exact same phone, and on an EVDO network just like Verizon's) for $200 after new contract and rebate. Heck, even with the additional charges thrown in, it still comes out cheaper than Verizon's offer. And changing providers and punting Verizon looks like a welcome consumer change.

These thoughts began to brew in my mind as I attempted to speak with yet another hierarchy of Verizon Technical Service Reps and managers yesterday afternoon. At this point I rated myself at 60% ready to heave Verizon.

With the Rep, I site the private data left on the FRU phone as to why I will not return my own phone.
Are you kidding me? He says. That's terrible, I cannot believe that happened. Tell me what happened. I should record it.

What do you mean, you should record it? Don't you have it in your notes right in front of you? (Since Friday when I received the FRU 8703e and discovered another customer's data still on it, I had not only contacted the original owner of it, but I had also told Verizon through at least four Technical Reps. Each said he recorded that important fact in the record, and that Verizon would address it.) What did this rep see? You must see this several places in your previous notes? I said.

No, he said. Verbatim: "It's not even noted."

Now I'm at 80%.

More insulting fun. Let me recreate the conversation with his superior.

Me: "Let me make this clear, Nothing will make me send my original phone back to you."

Him: "See, I have this technician in the warehouse who knows how to guarantee it will get wiped clean, when we receive it."

Who can change policy? I said. That would be the associate director, he said. You want him to call you? Um, I'll have him call you before 5 PM, he said.

After 6 PM EST (their time), I figured they blew me off. But at 7 PM CST (my time) the associate director did call...


***** 2. High Up, More Reasonable *****

The associate director, fortunately, came across as reasonable, thoughtful, and one who seemed to look the bigger picture of this. He did not give push-button auto-answers, which came as an improvement. Again, I said in no way would I return my original phone. Summed: Broken 60-day-old new 8703e. Replacement 8703e still screwed. Three, four hours troubleshooting with Tech Reps. Former owner's private data breached. $470 retail charge for FRU 8703e.

I also talked about the math of punting Verizon. He must have perceived I stood ready to chuck Verizon right there. Or he saw the absurdity of the situation. Or both. But afterward he said: okay, I could keep both the FRU 8707e and my broken 8703e, and that I did not have to pay the a fee.

Exhale...

Take note. He said they would list the broken one under their 'stolen device' record, which removes the ability from it for anyone to reactive that device. So no need to return it. That sounded fine with me -- mine was fried anyway and would never reactivate.

More intrigue. With that current FRU phone, he said, it looks like the quirky problems still there come from: its HARDWEAR. Not the software nor the network.

Incredible! He just said they replaced my broken 8703e with yet another broken one.

We will ship you a third one, another FRU, he said. You won't have to pay for it. I made a comment of yet again several hours troubleshooting this next phone. He thought for a moment. Then said:

* I will send you a new 8703e, not a FRU.
* And you can keep your old phone.
* And no additional charge.

Bigger exhale...

They should have done this from step one. All my time and persistence expended to reach this point. It should not have had to occur this way. And the data privacy breach remained un-addressed.

But I called it a night last night feeling content and pleased that I followed through with this, got what I needed, had helped the former owner, and had relayed this important experience to the BBForums readers.

The associate director acted responsible, to his credit, when others did not. What little trust I had for Verizon before this had all but eroded.

But wait. There's more...


***** 3. "Hi, I'm Calling from Verizon's Legal Department" *****

I got an out-of-the-blue call at about 5 PM tonight. An attorney from Verizon's legal department called, and to my surprise, it had nothing to do with any of my calls.

It seems the former 8703e owner, or "Ms. Fru" if you will, who I emailed and notified that all her private data arrived on my FRU 8703e, contacted Verizon's customer service department on her own. And it seemed to have a large effect. She emailed them her own words plus the email I had written to her on first contact with the details. She also mentioned she asked her attorney some questions about this.

Her message must have awoken a whole separate arm of Verizon. Because something seemed to have jumped up a notch.

Let me give you an example.

The attorney did not seem to know about much of my long calls, my refusal to requish my broken phone, nor my conversation with the associate director. He did not know the associate director agreed to ship me a new 8703e. Yet the conversation with the attorney started like this:

"Mr. Palmer, we would like to send you a brand new 8703e at no charge to replace your broken one, and in return we ask you to send both the broken and the replacement 8703e's back to us so we can destroy them."

Ummm. That seemed rather fast.

We have become very concerned about this privacy incident, he said, at the national level. It seems a batch of FRU phone dispatched to new owners unwiped, with previous owners data still on them. Mine counted as one of them. This incident of mine and Ms. Fru has so far become the only one where someone has recognized that a former owner's data had mistakenly come unwiped in the phone. We at Verizon are embarrassed about this.

Hmmm.

What has Ms. Fru said about this, I asked. We plan to call her next, he said. Why did you call me before her, and not the other way around?

I need to communicate with Ms. Fru about her thoughts and feelings before I can move forward with any of this, I said. Let me make clear, I put the best interest of Ms. Fru and of myself at a higher priority than I do Verizon's, I said. And ended the conversation.

Emailed and then took a call from Ms. Fru, and talked about this. The attorney called again. In the middle of his call, the associate director called. How funny to say, I cannot speak with you right now, I have an attorney with your legal department on the other line.

I do not want more headaches, nor make this into something it should not become. Though the betrayal of confidentiality of Ms. Fru's information, amongst the rest, continues to chap my hide. Seems gratifying that Verizon finally begins to address this, after 5 days.


This is a looooong post. But the content remains important. BB Peoples, give me your thoughts and input on this. It's tough for me to get my whole mind around it. I appreciate the support.

Thanks!
-Andrew

Andrew, you should rest assured you have done the right thing! I wonder if her phone had wound up in less posistive circumstances, what would have been the outcome. With ID theft on the rise that's astounding. The other question that has to be asked is...
How many in this "batch of phones sent out" have been contacted? With the bb family as large as it is. This is the only time I have even heard of this, on this or the other forums.
Either Verizon contacted them or nobody said 1 thing. Some wiped them not thinking but, did a few or even 1 end up in unfavorable hands?

Verizon has opened up a huge liability, imho.

I am very grateful for your calling attention to this. I always assumed when I sent a phone back it would be wiped???? how many people have had access to my info? I go through phones pretty fast.

Just letting you know I openly support what you are going through.
Tried to do the right thing, bad experience.
I just hope that this hasn't tainted you. Continue on the way you have. Don't let this small problem change your way of acting and thinking. From what I have read you are an honest person. Keep it that way.
This is one small bad incident in life.

Best of luck and keep us posted please!!!!!

I very much appreciate the strong show of support and your complimentary words! Thank you.

It makes a great difference to know people find this helpful, important, and of interest. I truly look forward to when this closes, and when I have nothing more to write here. Until then I will do what I can to keep you posted.

I have followed this post from its inception. Absolutely fascinating to me, VERY good on you Andrew sticking to your guns and frankly doing the absolute RIGHT thing. You should be commended for you actions and for all of your efforts particularly going through with it and for contacting the previous owner!!!