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Old 02-28-2007, 05:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question BIS vs. Redirector confusion - head spinning!

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Dear All,

After spending the best part of today searching for answers on BF and elsewhere my head is spinning. In a nutshell I am looking to get a BlackBerry (fed up of my Treo 650!). BES isn't an option unfortunately, but I would like to get at my work e-mail so that leaves me with the redirector or BIS. Herein the problem lies:
  1. Am I correct in my understanding that BIS does not make a provision for mail folders?
  2. If so, would a better option be to use the redirector - does that provide folders? Some conflicting posts are out there on this which imply that it may only sync folders when locally connected.

I ask this as I file e-mails into a lot of folders. Currently with Chatter on the Treo it's straightforward, but I'll be disappointed if I can't get a BlackBerry because of this! I did find a thread about six months old from a guy with a Treo 650 who wanted to switch but didn't for this reason, although he wasn't asking about the redirector). I wonder if he ever switched... (can't post the link as I don't have enough posts yet).

I would really appreciate any pointers on this.
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I can help a little bit with some of this, as I'm researching something similar and have discovered the landscape a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobyw
Am I correct in my understanding that BIS does not make a provision for mail folders?
From what I can tell, yes. BIS is basically like POP on steroids; it can get the email and so forth, but it has no real interaction with a remote server. I made a post, lemme dig it up...

Here ya go:
Gmail + Hosted Domains

So after reading that, from your perspective Chatter Email is a true, full-fledged IMAP client for the Treo; I have been unable to find anything like this for BlackBerry (*sigh*), and am right now still using LogicMail to at least *check* my IMAP account. LogicMail does not yet support much beyond that. I'm not sure what your needs are, but I have a primary work IMAP account that just isn't BIS friendly - way too much spam and filtering and whatnot going on, I need a real IMAP client to manage it.

Should you manage to find the equivalent of Chatter Email for a BB handset I would be in your debt. (commercial is OK! I'll pay!) But, at this stage you're going to have a hard time replicating your Chatter experience on a BB device. :-/
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivviepop
I can help a little bit with some of this,
Sweet response, nail on the head...

Only comment I would make is that if your company springs for a BES (actually a 1 user version is free to d/load but you have server & OS costs & additional monthly fees)

or has one currrently..then you get a great experience and can folderise to your hearts content - provided not pst but on the mail server.

If not then BB is not right for you..
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Last edited by bertiebassett : 02-28-2007 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks both for the great replies. Concerning BES, although I work for a very large organization there is no BES and neither is there likely to be in the foreseeable future. In fact, they have only just changed to Exchange 2003 from a very archaic Unix system...

It's a real shame that after putting a lot of effort into researching things, not to mention liking the form-factor etc. of the Pearl that I can't make the switch.

Folderising is a key issue for me, especially if I go away and get several hundred messages, which would mean having to trawl through them all again to file when I get back to the office.

Unless anyone else has any comments it looks like I may be stuck with the Treo or (wash my mouth out) have to go to a Windows Mobile device...

My only hope is that someone will chime in and tell me that the desktop redirector will do this...

Thanks again.
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm not terribly knowledgeable about this, but would a hosted Exchange/BES account be of any help to you?

Here are a few options...you can check and see if they might work with your setup.

MailStreet Exchange Hosting, Email Outsourcing using Microsoft Exchange 2003 Server,Outsource Corporate Email
Link2Exchange
http://www.exchangemymail.com/

And please no Windows Mobile...at least not for a while until they release 6.0 and get the kinks worked out.
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominx
I'm not terribly knowledgeable about this, but would a hosted Exchange/BES account be of any help to you?

Here are a few options...you can check and see if they might work with your setup.

MailStreet Exchange Hosting, Email Outsourcing using Microsoft Exchange 2003 Server,Outsource Corporate Email
Link2Exchange
http://www.exchangemymail.com/

And please no Windows Mobile...at least not for a while until they release 6.0 and get the kinks worked out.
A good idea, thanks for posting. Unfortuantely I can't change my work e-mail address and it's this that I need :(

Will go on another trawl for info about the dreaded redirector...
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I've spent a few more hours looking for info on the redirector and haven't come up with anything useful. Does anyone on here actually use the redirector? Would be really appreciative if you could give me an idea of its functionality.
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I really don't recommend redirector as it completely relies on the uptime of the desktop PC running redirector. If you're willing to make that gamble or if you have someone you can call to reboot and troubleshoot your PC remotely, it's worth a shot. I know a number of people seem to use it without major issues.

Can you forward to a hosted BES service? I recommend talking to some of them because there are options for splitting email hosting. Hosted BES doesn't preclude the use of your business's domain name.
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:22 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takeshi
I really don't recommend redirector as it completely relies on the uptime of the desktop PC running redirector. If you're willing to make that gamble or if you have someone you can call to reboot and troubleshoot your PC remotely, it's worth a shot. I know a number of people seem to use it without major issues.
To my mind redirector just sucks for one reason and one reason alone..

across my portfolio of users pretty much everyone that has a BB has a laptop...so you're out of the office for a couple of days and want email to your BB, so you need to leave your laptop back on the desk in your office so the redirector software can work..so how do you do the death by powerpoint presentation to the client..

Or I can go to the trouble of setting up a separate desktop pc with redirector for each user that I can leave on the in office 24x7 connected to the mail system..that doesn't go down with a windoze autoupdate..

Give me a BES any day of the week..
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Last edited by bertiebassett : 03-01-2007 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 03-01-2007, 11:24 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takeshi
I really don't recommend redirector as it completely relies on the uptime of the desktop PC running redirector. If you're willing to make that gamble or if you have someone you can call to reboot and troubleshoot your PC remotely, it's worth a shot. I know a number of people seem to use it without major issues.
Hi Takeshi, thanks for taking the time to reply. I would be prepared to leave my desktop in the office on, and I realise that it may be a shaky service. The main reason for choosing this is to see if I can get my mail folders on the device. I still haven't found out whether this is possible or now - do you know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by takeshi
Can you forward to a hosted BES service? I recommend talking to some of them because there are options for splitting email hosting. Hosted BES doesn't preclude the use of your business's domain name.
I wish I could do this Unfortunately I can't really take my e-mail off the company servers that it's on at the moment. This leads to the only option with them being forwarding which seems even more messy than BIS

Last edited by tobyw : 03-01-2007 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 03-01-2007, 11:26 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bertiebassett
To my mind redirector just sucks for one reason and one reason alone..

across my portfolio of users pretty much everyone that has a BB has a laptop...so you're out of the office for a couple of days and want email to your BB, so you need to leave your laptop back on the desk in your office so the redirector software can work..so how do you do the death by powerpoint presentation to the client..
Fortunately I have a desktop in the office as well as a laptop (and also fortunately I don't like PowerPoint!

The reason that I'm look at this is to try and get round the folders/reconciliation problems with BIS, but I still don't know if redirector accomplishes this.
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Old 03-01-2007, 11:50 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Used re-director for a few months until it stopped working on me. Not sure why. Worked pretty well at first. Emails from my Outlook Inbox were being sent to my BB and emails sent from BB would appear in Sent folder in Outlook. Outlook had to remain ON for re-director to work and it would only deal with the Inbox not other folders.

Tried re-installing it a few time but same results...email would take forever to get to BB or never get delivered at all. Gave up on it.

Cheers
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Old 03-01-2007, 01:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobyw
Fortunately I have a desktop in the office as well as a laptop (and also fortunately I don't like PowerPoint!

The reason that I'm look at this is to try and get round the folders/reconciliation problems with BIS, but I still don't know if redirector accomplishes this.
I moved recently from my Treo 650 to the BB Pearl. In my honest opinion, if you don't have BES DO NOT switch to a BB. BB is the best device out there - but ONLY IF YOU HAVE BES. I used my Treo/Chatter combination for over a year, and it blows BB/BIS out of the water!! I remember Chatter was working on a solution for Contacts and Cal syncing, don't know what the status of it is now.

My honest opinion - stick to Treo/Chatter if you don't have BES. If you do have BES, BB is the best thing out there today!
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Old 03-01-2007, 01:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLB
Used re-director for a few months until it stopped working on me. Not sure why. Worked pretty well at first. Emails from my Outlook Inbox were being sent to my BB and emails sent from BB would appear in Sent folder in Outlook. Outlook had to remain ON for re-director to work and it would only deal with the Inbox not other folders.

Tried re-installing it a few time but same results...email would take forever to get to BB or never get delivered at all. Gave up on it.

Cheers
Thanks DLB. Bummer about the folders; other folks that have reported elsewhere that they have managed to get folders working must be incorrect or on BES.
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Old 03-01-2007, 01:48 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivada
I moved recently from my Treo 650 to the BB Pearl. In my honest opinion, if you don't have BES DO NOT switch to a BB. BB is the best device out there - but ONLY IF YOU HAVE BES. I used my Treo/Chatter combination for over a year, and it blows BB/BIS out of the water!! I remember Chatter was working on a solution for Contacts and Cal syncing, don't know what the status of it is now.

My honest opinion - stick to Treo/Chatter if you don't have BES. If you do have BES, BB is the best thing out there today!
Thanks ivada. The move you made (650 --> Pearl) is exactly what I'm thinking of. It seems a real shame that it may not be right for me (unless anyone has any bright ideas!), especially since my Treo is decaying fast.

Out of interest, are you using BIS or the desktop redirector?

Thanks again,

Toby.
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Old 03-01-2007, 06:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Honestly, when it comes to BIS/BES/syncing, the desktop redirector works very well (of course the pc does need to be up and logged in)... as for calendar/contacts syncing, you just connect it to the PC to sync it.

Here's how I do it. I have chosen not to be on my company's BES for two reasons: a) It's my personal device and I would have to pay Cingular $15 more per month to be able to get on the BES. b) I don't think my IT group would add a non-company-issued device to the BES.

And throw this into the mix: My computer is a laptop, so it's not always on the network.

Here's what I do: Normally, when my machine is at work or at home, I connect to the exchange server and use desktop redirector. When my machine is going to be disconnected from the exchange server for a long time (travel, etc), I will just set up my exchange account on BIS. It's a little more delayed, but better than nothing.

Last edited by dandrzejewski : 03-01-2007 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:52 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobyw
Thanks ivada. The move you made (650 --> Pearl) is exactly what I'm thinking of. It seems a real shame that it may not be right for me (unless anyone has any bright ideas!), especially since my Treo is decaying fast.

Out of interest, are you using BIS or the desktop redirector?

Thanks again,

Toby.
Sorry I wasn't clear in my earlier post - I moved to the BB only because I got BES at my company. There is no way I would move to a BB/BIS if my other choice was a Treo650/Chatter.
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:56 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandrzejewski
Honestly, when it comes to BIS/BES/syncing, the desktop redirector works very well (of course the pc does need to be up and logged in)... as for calendar/contacts syncing, you just connect it to the PC to sync it.

Here's how I do it. I have chosen not to be on my company's BES for two reasons: a) It's my personal device and I would have to pay Cingular $15 more per month to be able to get on the BES. b) I don't think my IT group would add a non-company-issued device to the BES.

And throw this into the mix: My computer is a laptop, so it's not always on the network.

Here's what I do: Normally, when my machine is at work or at home, I connect to the exchange server and use desktop redirector. When my machine is going to be disconnected from the exchange server for a long time (travel, etc), I will just set up my exchange account on BIS. It's a little more delayed, but better than nothing.
As far as your reasons for choosing not to be on your company's BES, here are a couple of things for you to chew on:

a) If your company has given you a GSM BB, and your personal BB is unlocked, you can just put your company's SIM into your personal BB - no need to pay Cingular the additional $15/month.
b) If you use DM to switch devices, your IT Dept. will not even know about it - the DM will even automatically perform EA on your personal BB.
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Old 03-02-2007, 01:16 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivada
b) If you use DM to switch devices, your IT Dept. will not even know about it - the DM will even automatically perform EA on your personal BB.
You mean they never audit device PINS?

Perhaps the issue is that dandrzejewski doesn't want to be on the BES as he doesn't want
a) The IT policy that it comes with restricted acces to "his device" (but company data)
b) The IT dept to have the abillity to log every call, pin to pin message or SMS that he send from the device
c) For his device to be forced wiped at the end of his employment to keep the IT admins happy

bb
ps I'm an BBadmin myself just like to look at things from all sides...
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bertiebassett
You mean they never audit device PINS?

Perhaps the issue is that dandrzejewski doesn't want to be on the BES as he doesn't want
a) The IT policy that it comes with restricted acces to "his device" (but company data)
b) The IT dept to have the abillity to log every call, pin to pin message or SMS that he send from the device
c) For his device to be forced wiped at the end of his employment to keep the IT admins happy

bb
ps I'm an BBadmin myself just like to look at things from all sides...
I never advocated that he should do it - I just wanted him to know that he did have options to get his personal BB on his company's BES if he wanted to. Of course you're right about the IT policy and logging everything. As far as force-wiping, you can always switch devices back to the company's BB when you're leaving the company. Once again - I'm not advocating or condoning anything that goes against company policy, ethics, or law. All I'm trying to document is that there are options out there.
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