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Old 04-09-2007, 08:59 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I own/ operate a Sprint/Nextel Authorized Service center. In other words, we do repairs on sprint phones. So ill chime in on this.

First of all. Warranty issues. Since we are a sprint/nextel asc, we do not give a damn about warranty, all that matters to us is if you have service and repair which is the decieded factor if your going to get charged for the repair/replacement or not. But what warranty means is any manufacter's defect. If you break anything, whether it be the screen, housing, antenna, etc that is not a warranty issue only simple, you or someone/something broke it. Warranty is basically something going wrong by itself that wasn't caused by any sort of phyisical damage. But most of these repairs are covered by the service and repair program through sprint/nextel, it deals with warranty issues and more. That's why sometimes I get bothered when some says they got the warranty plan on sprint, lol. Sometimes these type of damage might fall under warranty issues, like if something is prone to breaking fairly easy the manufacter will send out service bulletins saying this is a warranty issue. This is of course going through the phone manufacter. But what's nevered covered by the service & repair is any damage to the board of the phone. Whether it be liquid damage (the correct term not water) or physical damage to the board, as in a broken, crushed or bent board, missing components, crushed bent heat shields etc etc. In that case phone is damaged beyond repair, your stuck with buying a new phone or if you have insurance, you can make a claim, pay the deductable and they send you a replacement and you send the DBR phone back. Basically, warranty is through the manufacter, as in sending the phone directly through them. It is normally very strict. Too many deep scratches can void the warranty (if you run your nail across and it catches) because that falls under (physical damage).

Now regarding this liquid damage issue. I don't know about verizon, but my store gets paid to do repairs. I want your broken phone. Sure there's a cost to running it, time, payroll, and cost of parts & tools. What would suck the most is spending time to tear up a phone and finding out its liquid or damage beyond repair, cause at that point we can't do anything with the phone except either refering the customer to make an insurance claim if they have it or buying another phone. There's no reason for techs to lie and tell everyone their phone is DBR. Well I can think of one reason, to upgrade the customer if their eligiable or something of the similar. I can see this happening if the stores have techs that also do sales. But most people coming in for repair aren't eligiable for upgrades.

Further on liquid, I've been doing this for years. There's more to it than just the liquid indicator turning red (or blue or another color on some phones. With nextel iden units the indicators are inside the phone on the board and there is usually two of them. A missing indicater on this phone is consided damaged beyond repair (normally means someone tamper with it).

But on just about every otherphone, the liquid indicator is out the outside. On the housing normally behind the batter. To me it makes more sense to be on the inside. Of course this is eaiser to "get wet" or change color. But like I said there's more to it than just the indicater. We still have to look inside the phone. Look for any corrosion or rust (if its that bad). Water spots on the board (or liquid spots) which is signs something dried up on the board. Green, or white powder on metal contacts or change of color on metal contacts. And the obvious, water.

Now it is possible for the liquid indicators to have not changed colors (not exposed to liquod) but their will be signs of liquid on the board of the phone. It happens all the time. Or liquid indicators to change color but no other signs of liquid damage on the board (besides the phone acting funky. But this makes it though for phones with the indicator out the outisde (like blackberrys, 7100s are the worst). For exmple someone could have split a little water on the indicator area but where it didn't get past the plastic and never touched the board. Its though, you don't want to deny a customer on that. But, that technically is a no no with the phone manufacters cause it does say "liquid exposure." Which the phone was exposed to liquid whether it caused any damage or not. But with phones with indicaters on the outside, if the indicater is missing well help you out (as long as there's no damage to the board). But some manufacters will void the warranty if they are missing. Never have I seen moisture cause the indicaters to turn red or cause corrosion or damage to the board. They are kinda touch to turn red. Like on the iden units a quick drop won't do it. Its gotta be a good amount and has to sit somewhat.

So even from a legal standpoint, I find it hard to see any lawsuit against a manufacter regarding warranty. Their warranty is stated pretty clearly.
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Old 04-09-2007, 12:38 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BallHawk3
I own/ operate a Sprint/Nextel Authorized Service center. In other words, we do repairs on sprint phones. So ill chime in on this.

First of all. Warranty issues. Since we are a sprint/nextel asc, we do not give a damn about warranty, all that matters to us is if you have service and repair which is the decieded factor if your going to get charged for the repair/replacement or not. But what warranty means is any manufacter's defect. If you break anything, whether it be the screen, housing, antenna, etc that is not a warranty issue only simple, you or someone/something broke it. Warranty is basically something going wrong by itself that wasn't caused by any sort of phyisical damage. But most of these repairs are covered by the service and repair program through sprint/nextel, it deals with warranty issues and more. That's why sometimes I get bothered when some says they got the warranty plan on sprint, lol. Sometimes these type of damage might fall under warranty issues, like if something is prone to breaking fairly easy the manufacter will send out service bulletins saying this is a warranty issue. This is of course going through the phone manufacter. But what's nevered covered by the service & repair is any damage to the board of the phone. Whether it be liquid damage (the correct term not water) or physical damage to the board, as in a broken, crushed or bent board, missing components, crushed bent heat shields etc etc. In that case phone is damaged beyond repair, your stuck with buying a new phone or if you have insurance, you can make a claim, pay the deductable and they send you a replacement and you send the DBR phone back. Basically, warranty is through the manufacter, as in sending the phone directly through them. It is normally very strict. Too many deep scratches can void the warranty (if you run your nail across and it catches) because that falls under (physical damage).

Now regarding this liquid damage issue. I don't know about verizon, but my store gets paid to do repairs. I want your broken phone. Sure there's a cost to running it, time, payroll, and cost of parts & tools. What would suck the most is spending time to tear up a phone and finding out its liquid or damage beyond repair, cause at that point we can't do anything with the phone except either refering the customer to make an insurance claim if they have it or buying another phone. There's no reason for techs to lie and tell everyone their phone is DBR. Well I can think of one reason, to upgrade the customer if their eligiable or something of the similar. I can see this happening if the stores have techs that also do sales. But most people coming in for repair aren't eligiable for upgrades.

Further on liquid, I've been doing this for years. There's more to it than just the liquid indicator turning red (or blue or another color on some phones. With nextel iden units the indicators are inside the phone on the board and there is usually two of them. A missing indicater on this phone is consided damaged beyond repair (normally means someone tamper with it).

But on just about every otherphone, the liquid indicator is out the outside. On the housing normally behind the batter. To me it makes more sense to be on the inside. Of course this is eaiser to "get wet" or change color. But like I said there's more to it than just the indicater. We still have to look inside the phone. Look for any corrosion or rust (if its that bad). Water spots on the board (or liquid spots) which is signs something dried up on the board. Green, or white powder on metal contacts or change of color on metal contacts. And the obvious, water.

Now it is possible for the liquid indicators to have not changed colors (not exposed to liquod) but their will be signs of liquid on the board of the phone. It happens all the time. Or liquid indicators to change color but no other signs of liquid damage on the board (besides the phone acting funky. But this makes it though for phones with the indicator out the outisde (like blackberrys, 7100s are the worst). For exmple someone could have split a little water on the indicator area but where it didn't get past the plastic and never touched the board. Its though, you don't want to deny a customer on that. But, that technically is a no no with the phone manufacters cause it does say "liquid exposure." Which the phone was exposed to liquid whether it caused any damage or not. But with phones with indicaters on the outside, if the indicater is missing well help you out (as long as there's no damage to the board). But some manufacters will void the warranty if they are missing. Never have I seen moisture cause the indicaters to turn red or cause corrosion or damage to the board. They are kinda touch to turn red. Like on the iden units a quick drop won't do it. Its gotta be a good amount and has to sit somewhat.

So even from a legal standpoint, I find it hard to see any lawsuit against a manufacter regarding warranty. Their warranty is stated pretty clearly.
Hey thanks for the information. I think the only thing I see that doesn't sound consistent with Verizon (phones) is it is VERY easy for the 'moisure indicator' tab to turn red based on what people have said. Mine certainly did and it was never in water.
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Old 04-09-2007, 12:57 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Angry I've been red squared!!

So I have read about this from time to time and today I was the victim. I had to run from my car to the office in the rain. I must say it was not a downpour, but it was raining. I was aware of the little white square in my 8700V, I had looked at it many times, so I folded my shirt over it while running through the rain. When I got inside I tucked my shirt in and later in the day I had to remove the battery to reset the unit and I almost fell out of my chair, my white square was now red. I had to remove the battery two days ago and it was white, so I know it must be from today's events. Now while my shirt had got damp, I can assure you it was by no means dripping wet and yet the unit's indicator changed color. The phone is fine and there was definitely no indication of water inside. I have a problem with the fact that the square stays red, what if in 6 months my BB dies for something completely unrelated to the red square, I am still out of luck. I think there should be a way for the square to change back to white after a period of time, that way if the failure is not related to the "supposed" water damage you are protected. Anyway, I guess I better hope my 8700V doesn't crap out on me until it is time for my contract renewal!!!
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Old 04-09-2007, 03:54 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Of course its a scam!!! If they built the color square in deeper then it would be more difficult to find and not just any idiot could look and see.
In my experience it does not matter if it is red white, or blue (unless it concerns you how it got to be red or blue) take the battery out if it did indeed get wet; follow the directions that have already been laid out above,
if you are having a problem with syncing and you HAVE A BES and use outlook Wipe and re sync this should take care of some problems. if you are not on a BES, try a forced sync this should take care of the problem.
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Old 04-09-2007, 05:37 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don.new
On my 8700 the thumbwheel broke, and I would have gotten a free replacement from T-Mobile, but they said "Water Damage" and I had to pay $100.
Please understand that I'm not judging or being critical of T-Mobile or how you handled your situation.

However that said, what I have found is that in the end, there are several factors that influence the outcome and how one is treated by the various carriers. A friend of mine had a situation just like you are describing above. His 8700 trackwheel failed. He called and asked me about it. I suggested he personally take it in to the local store, which in this case was Cingular. Upon opening the phone they noticed the water indicator had been activated. So the first person who waited on him said he could not help, that he would have to pay. So he _politely_ asked for the store manager. He explained his side to the manager, who then inspected the phone and declared that he would be happy to replace it for free. Now it would be easy for me to claim that "Cingulars the best", especially since that's who I use. However to the contrary I believe that it's how it's presented to the carrier, and the result is also somewhat dependent if one simply accepts a no, or courteously and patiently negotiates a better outcome.

The managers as most people know, have some latitude with these types of decisions. Building a good rapport and being easy to work with goes a very long ways towards obtaining the outcome you would like. Finally if one does not get the result expected than I would simply leave and take the device to another store. The results vary depending on who one is dealing with.
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Old 04-09-2007, 05:40 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i-Berry
,
if you are having a problem with syncing and you HAVE A BES and use outlook Wipe and re sync this should take care of some problems. if you are not on a BES, try a forced sync this should take care of the problem.
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Old 04-09-2007, 05:42 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archer6
Please understand that I'm not judging or being critical of T-Mobile or how you handled your situation.

However that said, what I have found is that in the end, there are several factors that influence the outcome and how one is treated by the various carriers. A friend of mine had a situation just like you are describing above. His 8700 trackwheel failed. He called and asked me about it. I suggested he personally take it in to the local store, which in this case was Cingular. Upon opening the phone they noticed the water indicator had been activated. So the first person who waited on him said he could not help, that he would have to pay. So he _politely_ asked for the store manager. He explained his side to the manager, who then inspected the phone and declared that he would be happy to replace it for free. Now it would be easy for me to claim that "Cingulars the best", especially since that's who I use. However to the contrary I believe that it's how it's presented to the carrier, and the result is also somewhat dependent if one simply accepts a no, or courteously and patiently negotiates a better outcome.

The managers as most people know, have some latitude with these types of decisions. Building a good rapport and being easy to work with goes a very long ways towards obtaining the outcome you would like. Finally if one does not get the result expected than I would simply leave and take the device to another store. The results vary depending on who one is dealing with.
Couldn't agree with you more Archer, I work retail wireless and coming and an being pleasant always seems to cause me to do everything I can, come in abrasive and Nasty and I won't be so willing to help.
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Old 04-09-2007, 06:54 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezrunner
Did I miss something?

No, he was offering advice on what to do if I was having problems with my BB, I expect it's good advice. As I said before, I can deal with having to hard re-set the BB every now and then. I commented somewhere how I expected I would have issues down the way if something more serious happened with my BB and the water damage thing came up.

Would a bad (or getting bad) battery cause the hard re-set thing? Just curious. Like I said, my BB is only 6 months old...well, actually it might be getting closer to a year...I'd have to check.
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Old 04-09-2007, 06:57 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezrunner
Couldn't agree with you more Archer, I work retail wireless and coming and an being pleasant always seems to cause me to do everything I can, come in abrasive and Nasty and I won't be so willing to help.
And hey, just for the record, I was not rude to the tech guys at all when I took my phone in. My experience up to that point with Verizon had been VERY VERY positive. I did try to negotiate and I also called customer service a few times...same story...arg.
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Old 04-09-2007, 07:08 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserInVa
And hey, just for the record, I was not rude to the tech guys at all when I took my phone in. My experience up to that point with Verizon had been VERY VERY positive. I did try to negotiate and I also called customer service a few times...same story...arg.
I'm sure based on your track record here on the Forum, that you were very courteous.

Often times some of us may bring up that element in a general way as there are people here that _are_ really quick to be critical or condeming. It provides an opportunity to demonstrate to those, that there is positive way to approach a particular situation.

It's unfortunate that Verizon was so steadfast in their position. I have heard lots of good things about Verizon. However just like any other business (at least in my experience) it's the people that make the difference, and if you are working with someone that doesn't take customer satisfaction seriously this is the unfortunate result.

Cheers.....
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Old 04-10-2007, 12:26 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Speaking of being courteous, is it/would it be bad etiquette to copy a comment from another forum and paste it here? I started a thread with the same subject on a cell phone forum and a guy there, who works for Verizon, made a comment that sheds some light.

I asked the question on the cell phone forum and was informed to provide the link, pretty smart...Anyway, here is a link to a cell phone forum post with the same question. One of the responses I think sheds some positive light on the way Verizon used to view water damage and how they do now. Was encouraging and positive so thought I'd share it.

Now let's see if it works:

Water damage, Is it a scam? - Verizon

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Old 04-10-2007, 07:17 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserInVa
But, I have a year left, I have time to think about this. Cingular may be cheaper, but dropping calls is not worth it and that's why I left them for Verizon... ouch, my head is stating to spin..... I have never heard of any problems though with BBs on Cingular.
I have used Cingular since the original transition from AT&T without any dropped call problems.
As I look back and remember, I switched from Verizon to AT&T for this reason. Your experience could be exactly the opposite. However it should be noted that since Cingular took over from AT&T, the amount of cell towers added is huge. This of course improves performance. And again, my experience is in the areas I travel, nothing more. So everyone needs to try to find the best coverage available no matter what the name of the carrier is. In addition as I experienced, the coverage areas improve from year to year as each carrier adds to it's infrastructure. So the Cingular or whomever of today is not the same as they were just a few years ago.

That said, it's most important in my opinion to go with the carrier that provides the best signal in your area. Remember that they all allow a period of time to try their service to see if it works for you. There is nothing more important spending time on, than to test a service out and make sure you have good coverage. Without it, the rest of your experience is going to be miserable.

A little effort spent in finding the right coverage for you is priceless.

Cheers...
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Old 04-10-2007, 08:20 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archer6
I have used Cingular since the original transition from AT&T without any dropped call problems.
As I look back and remember, I switched from Verizon to AT&T for this reason. Your experience could be exactly the opposite. However it should be noted that since Cingular took over from AT&T, the amount of cell towers added is huge. This of course improves performance. And again, my experience is in the areas I travel, nothing more. So everyone needs to try to find the best coverage available no matter what the name of the carrier is. In addition as I experienced, the coverage areas improve from year to year as each carrier adds to it's infrastructure. So the Cingular or whomever of today is not the same as they were just a few years ago.

That said, it's most important in my opinion to go with the carrier that provides the best signal in your area. Remember that they all allow a period of time to try their service to see if it works for you. There is nothing more important spending time on, than to test a service out and make sure you have good coverage. Without it, the rest of your experience is going to be miserable.

A little effort spent in finding the right coverage for you is priceless.

Cheers...

Thanks, that's good info and good food for thought too. I have a year left on my BB but I could switch my phone now actually then the BB later, or never, I'll think about it. It wouldn't take long at all to tell if I was going to have the same problem, just try to make a call in my living room...arg. It was really odd, no problems with AT&T at all, ever, then nothing but problems with Cingular...with several towers very close to me. It never made sense. Thanks though for responding. I've learned a lot here.
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Old 04-10-2007, 10:13 PM   #54 (permalink)
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As for the title of this thread... It may not be a scam but I do think some devices are more sensitive. Myself and 3 friends of mine all have 8700gs from Tmobile and our liquid damage indicator is red.
My phone has never been in liquid. Previously I had a 7100t. I use the both of devices the exact same way and up to this day the 7100t that's like 2 years old has a white liquid damage indicator. I think the location of the indicator has something to do with it. I noticed mine was red about 3 months after owning my phone. Interestingly my new phone the pearl has the indicator located similar to the 7100 under the battery. When my trackwheel went bad on my 8700 I was told my warranty was voided. If you can't click you can't even send an email so my BB was worthless.I have been a tmo customer for 10 years and never had insurance.

To make a long story short I now have a pearl with insurance.

Believe me I feel quite cheated. I tried to go back to my 7100t but after 2 months I couldn't take the slowness any longer.

My only consolation is the pearl is great!
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:00 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tprime
As for the title of this thread... It may not be a scam but I do think some devices are more sensitive. Myself and 3 friends of mine all have 8700gs from Tmobile and our liquid damage indicator is red.
My phone has never been in liquid. Previously I had a 7100t. I use the both of devices the exact same way and up to this day the 7100t that's like 2 years old has a white liquid damage indicator. I think the location of the indicator has something to do with it. I noticed mine was red about 3 months after owning my phone. Interestingly my new phone the pearl has the indicator located similar to the 7100 under the battery. When my trackwheel went bad on my 8700 I was told my warranty was voided. If you can't click you can't even send an email so my BB was worthless.I have been a tmo customer for 10 years and never had insurance.

To make a long story short I now have a pearl with insurance.

Believe me I feel quite cheated. I tried to go back to my 7100t but after 2 months I couldn't take the slowness any longer.

My only consolation is the pearl is great!


I tend to agree with you regarding some devices being more sensitive. I will feel cheated too if something happens to my BB and they void the warranty because of that. However, having said that, it just dawned on me...I have a 7250 and the sticker with the red on it...is ON the battery. I buy a new battery ... it's gone. That's odd. I don't see anything else that could be a liquid indicator. You would think it would be ON the BB so not to be removed.
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:40 AM   #56 (permalink)
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I had a user once take his 8700 into the locker room in the gym at work. He says he "likes a steamy shower" so he turns on all of the shower heads and takes his shower. When he came out his 8700 was dead. He said it was in his bag. I opened the back of it and the indicator was red.

His symptoms were just no display and the LED just stays solid blue. The inside of the phone shows blue/green staining/crusting.

So yes it is possible to liquid damage a phone without it getting dunked. We had to issue him a new device at the company's cost and I told him probably he should "invest" in a ziplock bag for it.

Another place that I worked I had a user (a manager at a grocery store) say he was helping mop the floor and the BB 7230 jumped out of the clip into the mop bucket. When I opened the phone I got a strong smell of chlorine. So I mentioned that to him and he admitted he was skimming leaves from his pool and he reached really far and the BB popped out.
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:22 AM   #57 (permalink)
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After months, just when I thought I had this moisture / water indicator thing all figured out, I got a big surprise.

After finishing my morning Starbucks while visiting with a couple guys from work, I turned the cup over and the sticker on the bottom was RED! ?

OK....OK.... I know, not the best of jokes, but hey it's early and I tried....tsk....tsk....

Just a little humor in an otherwise disgusting situation for all of us (red stickers).

Cheers.... & Have a Good Day!....
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:25 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Thanks Archer

I found that very funny not sure why!

I didn't think this thread would get this many posts sure has been some very interesting reading!
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Old 04-11-2007, 11:02 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archer6
After months, just when I thought I had this moisture / water indicator thing all figured out, I got a big surprise.

After finishing my morning Starbucks while visiting with a couple guys from work, I turned the cup over and the sticker on the bottom was RED! ?



Cheers.... & Have a Good Day!....

Maybe you should consider asking them to give you a replacement cup of coffee.... Now if it was McDonalds, you might get more for a defective cup...



okok, sorry
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Old 04-11-2007, 11:03 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gschoelles
Watch how you carry a CellPhone. I have Teenage Daughters who have the infamous Red Dot (in their cell phones) and after some analysis attribute it to the fact they carry them in their cleavage!? I know my phone would fail in seconds if I carried it around in my JOCK!

Wonder why they don't put a wet seal on the chipset - Think it's a money thing?


did you just talk about your daughter's cleavage?
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