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Old 04-13-2007, 01:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default A debate on Fascism

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Just picking up on the sentiment in this thread:

Fascist locked down BES!

I'm IT qualified, so I know what you mean - but maybe that's why I feel I can push the rules ... !

Anyway, FWIW, an argument in my favour is that with my new BB I can work while commuting, while watching TV in the evening etc. - it's not called a Crackberry for nothing!

Given that the BB allows / encourages me to work in my my own time, this could be the basis of an argument to say that it's not unreasonable to allow me to do some personal email on the device. Did no-one here ever browse the web from their desktop computer at work?

Nick.
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Old 04-13-2007, 05:51 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdrums View Post
Just picking up on the sentiment in this thread:

Fascist locked down BES!

I'm IT qualified, so I know what you mean - but maybe that's why I feel I can push the rules ... !

Anyway, FWIW, an argument in my favour is that with my new BB I can work while commuting, while watching TV in the evening etc. - it's not called a Crackberry for nothing!

Given that the BB allows / encourages me to work in my my own time, this could be the basis of an argument to say that it's not unreasonable to allow me to do some personal email on the device. Did no-one here ever browse the web from their desktop computer at work?

Nick.
I understand that you're upset that you have a somewhat crippled corporate device. Please understand that MANY of the members here... myself included... are BES administrators by profession.
When you blatantly call us Facists (twice), whether in jest or in anger, it's bound to offend someone.
Yes, you've gotten under my skin.

So maybe it's time you climb out of the little box you've created where you are the center of the universe and look at things from a different perspective. By different perspective, I mean reality.

You have a corporate mobile device. It's not your personal television. it's not your personal e-mail delivery system. It's for you to do your job, and nothing more.

So, my advice to you... grow up.
Stop trying to make your case. You are preaching to the wrong people.
If you're unhappy with your work-issued Blackberry and the usage rules included with it... then go out and buy your own mobile device and use it any way you want.
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Last edited by penguin3107 : 04-13-2007 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 04-13-2007, 05:56 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Nick - you will get little (to no) sympathy for your plight in this forum. It's not a Sidekick - it's a corporate communications tool. Deal with it.
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Old 04-13-2007, 06:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
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stop posting foolish threads. BES admins stop silly end users from installing programs because of trojans like this :

Presentation - Blackjacking

STFU
Deal with it
Buy your own

PS

Are police facists when they stop you from driving drunk?
Are your Network security guys facists when they stop you surfing porn @ work?
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Old 04-13-2007, 08:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Nick, just my opinion:

These two threads are in no means a debate on fascism. Personally, I feel that even your use of the word in reference to your issue greatly belittles the true fascism many peoples in this world have faced (or currently face).

From what I read of your "plight", you seek to access personal email and the browser on your corporate-owned Blackberry. There is quite a wide chasm between your corporate environment and fascism. You might have been joking in the use of the term, but you have grossly mis-defined fascism.
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Old 04-13-2007, 09:03 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdrums View Post
Given that the BB allows / encourages me to work in my my own time, this could be the basis of an argument to say that it's not unreasonable to allow me to do some personal email on the device. Did no-one here ever browse the web from their desktop computer at work?
You can argue what you what but in the end it's your employer's property and they can lock down your BB and desktop, if desired. Again, if you really need personal use then purchase your own device.
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Old 04-13-2007, 10:02 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takeshi View Post
You can argue what you what but in the end it's your employer's property and they can lock down your BB and desktop, if desired. Again, if you really need personal use then purchase your own device.
Agreed. Talk to some government folks about locked down computers. They can't even download plug-ins in some instances. If its a corporate BB, its a work tool, its their tool. To get around this, I bought my own BB, pay for my own service and attach to their bes. I can also get my gmail, vzw mail, ebay, text messaging etc. through the device because its MINE. I can't IM at work, but I can on my BB. They can't touch it. But the downside is that if it ever dies, its my deal, but that's cool with me.
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Old 04-13-2007, 10:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
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[quote=JSanders;508620] Nick, just my opinion:

These two threads are in no means a debate on fascism. Personally, I feel that even your use of the word in reference to your issue greatly belittles the true fascism many peoples in this world have faced (or currently face).


LOL, asolutely true. Tell an older Italian about how facist this company is by locking down "their" BB.

"Democracy is beautiful in theory; in practice it is a fallacy."
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Old 04-13-2007, 11:45 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 003402 View Post
Agreed. Talk to some government folks about locked down computers. They can't even download plug-ins in some instances. If its a corporate BB, its a work tool, its their tool. To get around this, I bought my own BB, pay for my own service and attach to their bes. I can also get my gmail, vzw mail, ebay, text messaging etc. through the device because its MINE. I can't IM at work, but I can on my BB. They can't touch it. But the downside is that if it ever dies, its my deal, but that's cool with me.
And that makes it THEIR device. While thay can't physically modify it, they can put any restriction they want on it because it accesses their network and their data.
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Old 04-13-2007, 05:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Dear Nickdrums:

I understand what you are saying, "Why can't I do both?"

1) Its the companies property

2) This is the information area, companies do not want anything invading or possibly corrupting their cash cow. One down day could lead to millions of lost dollars.

Not being confrontational, just being realistic. Good luck with the battle.
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Last edited by idealist : 04-14-2007 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 04-13-2007, 05:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdrums View Post

Anyway, FWIW, an argument in my favour is that with my new BB I can work while commuting, while watching TV in the evening etc. - it's not called a Crackberry for nothing!

Nick.
Unless you're "on-call" you could always just turn it off when you aren't working and use your own personal device.....
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Old 04-13-2007, 06:53 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I do work for the gov (BB admin) so no sympathy from me either. And it is very true that our users can't even install plug-ins on their computers. And we run checks to see who is surfing what and then we come down on those viewing non work related sites.

But, you have to realize that your company is paying somewhere in the area of at least $75/month plus initial costs and soft costs for you to have this device. How is it that you figure you are entitled to use it personally? You get a paycheck and the BB is not a bonus, its a tool.

That being said, I allow my users to use BIS and surf the internet. I even let them use google maps and BB messenger. So not all of us are "fascists"
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Old 04-13-2007, 07:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I find that the Admins if talked to and understand the need will generally allow you to use the BB for " other" applications such has google maps. If it's just a single person who wants to control the world you can always go above him. Keep in mind they are responsible for the network and usually dont do restrictions because they just want to. It is usually from some wonderful user who mis-uses either the BB or his PC that restrictions come. Besides as stated above, it's a work tool and the word is "work" not play.
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Old 04-14-2007, 12:45 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Think of it as a giant house of cards that costs millions to build. They are the guardian of the giant house of cards. A card placed in the wrong place and the entire house comes down and you have to start over. They have to guard it from any little gust of wind, or someone bumping in to it. Not just anyone is allowed to add a card here or there or remove a card over there. Don't let the guardian see you wiggling the table it's sitting on either!

It's just the way it is. Lets leave the Fascism remarks out. You're welcome to the debate but if it gets out of hand it'll be closed.
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Old 04-14-2007, 11:29 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 003402 View Post
Agreed. Talk to some government folks about locked down computers. They can't even download plug-ins in some instances. If its a corporate BB, its a work tool, its their tool. To get around this, I bought my own BB, pay for my own service and attach to their bes. I can also get my gmail, vzw mail, ebay, text messaging etc. through the device because its MINE. I can't IM at work, but I can on my BB. They can't touch it. But the downside is that if it ever dies, its my deal, but that's cool with me.
If you're on your company's BES, can't they still theoretically lock down your device if they want? Or are they less restrictive because the device doesn't belong to them?

Last edited by dandrzejewski : 04-14-2007 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 04-14-2007, 11:34 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I would talk with the BES admin before adding your device to the BES. They can still lock down your device. Ask them what policies are in place before having your BB added. Also, there are some things that are restricted after being added to the BES that are virtually irreversible. For instance, after removing a BB from the BES, many firewall options cant be "allowed" after being on a BES even though a blank IT policy has been pushed to the device.

Last edited by John Clark : 04-14-2007 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 04-14-2007, 06:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post
It's just the way it is. Lets leave the Fascism remarks out. You're welcome to the debate but if it gets out of hand it'll be closed.
Thank you, Mr. Clark for being the voice of reason, logic and authority. Should you decide to shut this thread down, I for one would be quite satisfied. I fail to see the positive side (or anything of benefit) of such serious dialog on a BB forum. Is it really that important? Nevermind.

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Old 04-14-2007, 06:25 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandrzejewski View Post
If you're on your company's BES, can't they still theoretically lock down your device if they want? Or are they less restrictive because the device doesn't belong to them?
If they are being less restrictive, they are not doing their jobs. Policies are pushed down for security and audit purposes. The company's network, the company's policies.

Last edited by CanuckBB : 04-15-2007 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 04-14-2007, 07:19 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckBB View Post
If they are being less restrictive, they are not doing their jobs. Policies are ushed down for security and audit purposes. The company's network, the company's policies.
I agree completely - as any info. security guy worth his salt will tell you, information is the asset you're trying to protect. Doesn't matter what the method is, if you want to access corp data you must adhere to the rules. If you take exception and it's your asset, that's fine - you can continue to use it for your own purposes, but keep it the hell away from the corp data.
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Old 04-16-2007, 09:52 AM   #20 (permalink)
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You could always try reasoning with your BES administrator. I got my BB unlocked when I offered to create a corporate theme for our BBs.
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