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Old 05-20-2007, 11:26 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Blackberry in the UK for personal use

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Hi all

I am a little new to the Blackberry thing but not new to email in general

I would really like to either use a Pearl or an 8800 for personal emailing when on the move. The problem is, I'm a little confused with the terminology and how different companies spin their packages. I want to pay as little as possible (well, duh!) but still not worry about data use.

Ideally, I'd like to be on a PAYG package and just buy the handset itself privately.

I think push email is what I'm after, yes?

Three seem to offer a good deal with their X-series and mobile office addons etc but that's Pay monthly at 35pm.

Then I look at 02 who seem to have an 'Individual Blackberry Option', and I don't understand whether this is the regular Blackberry functionality I'd be signing up for.

Can someone please wade in and either help me understand the difference between push email and the services these networks seem to be offering if it isn't push (and why it requires their own software to be installed - perhaps because it uses their version of BES?).

Or...ideally, make a recommendation!

Thanks!!!
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
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AFAIK, there are no pay as you go plans for the BB. You would have to have a BB dataplan with your carrier for email and Internet.

With 'push email" RIM automatically pushes your email to your device approx every 15-20 minutes, sometime shorter.
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Wirelessly posted (8700g: BlackBerry8700/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

The email function on all BlackBerrys work the same, and the two basic choices are BIS and BES. For personal use you are likely going to need/want BIS and you will need a BlackBerry Data plan. The Unlimited plans are the best cost advantage. I don't know for sure about UK plans, but I don't believe there are Pay as you Go plans of the BB Data plan.
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Old 05-20-2007, 04:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubdub View Post
AFAIK, there are no pay as you go plans for the BB. You would have to have a BB dataplan with your carrier for email and Internet.

With 'push email" RIM automatically pushes your email to your device approx every 15-20 minutes, sometime shorter.
15-20 mins seems like an awfully long time. I thought it was instantaneous! And presumably RIM don't do the pushing if you're in the UK?
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Old 05-20-2007, 04:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dance View Post
15-20 mins seems like an awfully long time. I thought it was instantaneous! And presumably RIM don't do the pushing if you're in the UK?
15-20 mins is the standard for a BB. Sometimes faster. Not a big deal IMHO. And all email goes from RIM to your BB as it is tied to the PIN.
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Old 05-20-2007, 06:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubdub View Post
15-20 mins is the standard for a BB. Sometimes faster. Not a big deal IMHO. And all email goes from RIM to your BB as it is tied to the PIN.
I don't mean to be a bore, but after quite a while trying to figure this out, it still doesn't make sense!

Not only does it not fit with wikipedia's definition of push email, the fact such a scenario would make blackberry email MUCH slower than regular email, but the fact that you're the only person I've heard on the web say this - all other folks say that mail often arrives on the blackberry faster than on the desktop.

Perhaps I've misunderstood?
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Old 05-20-2007, 07:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Your link to "BlackBerry Internet Solution from O2" is to what is generally referred to as "BIS". It is "regular Blackberry functionality".

Re PAYG in the UK - I seem to recall that O2 do this (although I could be wrong, or it's not generally available or something). Just make sure that you know what it includes and what it doesn't, and what the likely costs are.

With regard to the speed, I've always found both BES and BIS messages (I've both services on my BB) to be "almost instantaneous". Just tried it now, and a message took less than 30 seconds to appear.
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Old 05-21-2007, 06:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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There's no PAYG BB plan in the UK. If you're got a voice plan with O2, you can add PAYG BB to it & pay per Mb of data, or opt for an unlimited option. TMUK will add BB for 10/month, or 5.88 if you've already got Web&Walk. Orange will only allow BB data if you buy the handset from them, so you can't go out & pickup a BB from eBay. Not sure about Vodafone, 3 don't support them at all.
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Old 05-21-2007, 07:40 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Dance, the 15 minute push on BIS fits perfectly with the definition of push email. I guess you could take up that discussion with RIM if you disagree.

You can setup your BIS account to use true push, via:
How to add / delete email addresses - BlackBerryFAQ

Or, you can set your email to forward from your POP account to the [email address] address. Under this setup, you will lose some functionality of the reply email coming from your POP address, but your will find your email sent to your handheld much quicker. But that is the trade-off.
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:11 AM   #10 (permalink)
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My email hits my BB before it even gets from the server to my desktop! Am on BIS with O2 and its auto-forwarded to my BB email address which is then "pushed" to my 8700 (Pearl tomorrow yay!) all happening faster than getting from server to my desk!

It also "polls" my personal IMAP account about every 10 minutes or so....
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Old 05-22-2007, 10:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSanders View Post
Dance, the 15 minute push on BIS fits perfectly with the definition of push email. I guess you could take up that discussion with RIM if you disagree.
No, it doesn't. Not only does this contradict (as I said earlier) the very definiton of push email, but RIM support have confirmed this with me. They supposed you must be using some kind of crippled email support with your Blackberry for it to take 15 minutes. Are you perhaps aggregating POP mail?

The thing is this folks: true BlackBerry pushed email is sent to the device as soon as the server receives it.
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Old 05-22-2007, 11:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Dance, in speaking of RIM's BIS (BlackBerry Internet Service) with and email address from a POP account added to the BIS, RIM's own documentation states very clearly:
  1. An email message arrives in the subscriber's email account.
  2. The BlackBerry Internet Service which polls the email account every 15 minutes, downloads the new email message.
    Wireless service providers that use new mail notification notify the BlackBerry Internet Service of the arrival that a new email message has arrived.
  3. The BlackBerry Internet Service downloads the message and applies subscriber-defined filters.
  4. The BlackBerry Internet Service sends the message to the subscriber's BlackBerry-enable device over the wireless network."
(page 6, BlackBerry Internet Service Version 2.0 Feature and Technical Overview)

Email sent directly to the *.*.blackberry.net address will arrive immediately, as well as, I think Yahoo and GMail accounts.

I can't help if these facts contradict anything you know or what is written in a Wiki--it's just the way it works--and if you want it otherwise, believe what you wish. That still does not change the facts.

So, if your RIM contact knows differently, he/she should have them correct their written documentation, as well as let a few million users in on it.
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Old 05-22-2007, 11:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSanders View Post
Email sent directly to the *.*.blackberry.net address will arrive immediately
Which is what I've been saying all along. I've never been talking about messages aggregated from a POP3 account - only push email. It's to be expected that the BIS/BES doesn't aggregate your external POP messages instantly. It can't. I've been talking about the joys of push email. Thanks for your attentions (I mean that), just a shame we have been at cross purposes.
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Old 05-22-2007, 12:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dance View Post
No, it doesn't. Not only does this contradict (as I said earlier) the very definiton of push email, but RIM support have confirmed this with me. They supposed you must be using some kind of crippled email support with your Blackberry for it to take 15 minutes. Are you perhaps aggregating POP mail?

The thing is this folks: true BlackBerry pushed email is sent to the device as soon as the server receives it.
Just want to try clarify the whole push vs. pull email thing a bit...
Push mail has nothing to do with the timing involved with mail delivery. The 15-minute polling interval on BIS does not mean anything with regards to push mail. Push vs. Pull is determined by who (handheld device or server) makes the request for mail to be delivered.

In a "pull" mail system... the client must initiate the request for mail to be delivered to the handheld. Whether this happens automatically on a schedule, or manually... it's still the client's responsibility to request a delivery. This is NOT how the BlackBerry works.

The BlackBerry is a true "push" system, because the handheld does not have to initiate a request for mail to be delivered to the device. The mail delivery is initiated by the server. Whether this be a BES, or BIS... the server is responsibile for delivering messages to the device without the need for the client (handheld) to make a request.

Any e-mail account you set up with BIS (OWA, POP, IMAP, or other compatible web mail) will still be a push system. BIS will "pull" mail from your respective e-mail account, but then push it to your handheld.
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Last edited by penguin3107 : 05-22-2007 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 05-22-2007, 12:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguin3107 View Post
Just want to try clarify the whole push vs. pull email thing a bit...
Push mail has nothing to do with the timing involved with mail delivery. The 15-minute polling interval on BIS does not mean anything with regards to push mail. Push vs. Pull is determined by who (handheld device or server) makes the request for mail to be delivered.

In a "pull" mail system... the client must initiate the request for mail to be delivered to the handheld. Whether this happens automatically on a schedule, or manually... it's still the client's responsibility to request a delivery. This is NOT how the BlackBerry works.

The BlackBerry is a true "push" system, because the handheld does not have to initiate a request for mail to be delivered to the device. The mail delivery is initiated by the server. Whether this be a BES, or BIS... the server is responsibile for delivering messages to the device without the need for the client (handheld) to make a request.

Any e-mail account you set up with BIS (OWA, POP, IMAP, or other compatible web mail) will still be a push system. BIS will "pull" mail from your respective e-mail account, but then push it to your handheld.
Exactly!
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:12 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Now that the dust has settled?!!!!

Dance..

I am on 02 network & have been for 3 years now.

I'm on the 02 400 package (45.00 per month) (BB Access - 15.00 per month) & i consider myself as a med/heavy phone & email user (40odd emails a day). I've found that sometimes i receive email before the desktop but more often than not its a couple of minutes. The BIS does indeed poll the email account every 15 mins, surely this is adequate. How many emails can someone receive in 15mins!!!!!

I've found 02 to be excellent & i can recommend them highly
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