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Old 10-01-2004, 01:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I use Cyrus at home to archive all of my email because Cyrus blows the holy hell out of Exchange, Notes, or any other email server out there.

I have a BlackBerry on a BES also. I can honestly say that if I were living in some Microsoft fantasy land, it would be the best way to do it, but since I'm thankfully working and living in the real world, I have had to do things a little differently than leave the blinders on.
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Old 10-01-2004, 01:08 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Not particularly fond of Exchange either, but that's the only way to get wireless 2-way email synchronization cheaply ($10-$25 per month externally-hosted Exchange account with BES)

If you are a Java programmer, it is technically possible to write software that does wireless 2-way synchronization with IMAP over a TCP/IP connection over MDS, but accessing and modifying the BlackBerry mailbox requires some protected RIM API's and RIM may not be happy about undercutting an advantage of the BES server.
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Old 10-01-2004, 01:09 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon
Not particularly fond of Exchange either, but that's the only way to get wireless 2-way email synchronization cheaply ($10-$25 per month externally-hosted Exchange account with BES)
Yeah, Im not fond of Exchange. Too bad there is not an opensource system that the Blackberry can talk to.
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Old 10-01-2004, 01:10 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon
People find the BlackBerry email to be so good, they don't even bother installing third party email clients. So you rarely ever see reviews about third party email software. But they exist and work. The best ones are Reqwireless from www.reqwireless.com at this time.

I think your best choices are either:

(1) Easiest: Configuring your BWC to poll your IMAP server. You will get new messages every 15 minutes.

(2) Automatic forwarding a CC: to your BlackBerry push address, that's how I do it. My BlackBerry then acts like a great wireless email notifier. Whenever my BlackBerry vibrates, I know I have new email waiting for me, and I can look at its screen pager-style (message displayed right away SMS/pager style after pulling out of holster) or reply to the message from my desktop instead. And your BlackBerry vibrates within 4-10 seconds of somebody clicking SEND to your email address, no need to check email, it's already downloaded to your BlackBerry realtime.
I use my personal BlackBerry as email triage. I get a lot of messages. I have procmail echo things directly to my Bberry unless they're always junk or not interesting to me (determined by a cascade of procmail rules) and then it's all spam-proofed by spamassassin and TMDA.

So I have been freed from waiting for emails at home when I should be spending time working on other things, and I can do my email management "for real" on the computer later, where I have my fancy-pants storage and heirarchy all setup in my cyrus server.

Plus, during the day, I can use mutt to read my mail "for real" and manage things as I need to, and everything is nicely and neatly archived and worked on after being tagged.
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Old 10-01-2004, 01:11 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datafirm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon
Not particularly fond of Exchange either, but that's the only way to get wireless 2-way email synchronization cheaply ($10-$25 per month externally-hosted Exchange account with BES)
Yeah, Im not fond of Exchange. Too bad there is not an opensource system that the Blackberry can talk to.
They could easily do it, they just choose not to.

Making something talk to Exchange is a lot more difficult than making something speak to IMAP servers.
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Old 10-01-2004, 01:17 PM   #26 (permalink)
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For those programmers who may read this...
(Skip if you are not a programmer, but anybody who runs opensource software are more likely to be programmers than those who do not run opensource software).

Actually, there is no limitation for a third party software programmer to write a better IMAP client for BlackBerry that supports IMAP IDLE. You don't even need to get this application signed by RIM if you keep a separate Inbox away from the Message list. You may need signing for larger amounts of data storage, though. But then again, a loophole exists: Get Dynoplex eFile filesystem API :D (pre-signed) and your storage problems are solved. No need to get RIM involved, since you now have a filesystem on BlackBerry this way that a programmer can use to store downloaded IMAP messages.

But you'll still need TCP/IP (MDS), and need some logic to make it more reliable over wireless. But it's technically doable without RIM's involvement today now to write an IMAP IDLE capable email client. Then again, you might need message notifications -- which you still need RIM to sign. (Then you might as well hook into the existing RIM Inbox while you're at it)

Within 12 months, a third party will write an IMAP client that installs on a BlackBerry -- as a separate client at least. Time will tell.

Average Joe Users can care less, but with BlackBerry doubling in numbers in less than a year, there's going to be incredible pressure for better opensouce support by at least a few technically-minded BlackBerry users who's desparate enough to write their own clients.

Open source software for BlackBerry now exists -- and RIM is willing to sign them, as long as they don't undercut other RIM products. RIM signed an opensource free ICQ chat program called BlackChat to allow it to hook it into the protected sound/vibrate Notification API. They are more open about it now.

So the opportunity is there for a third party developer both ways, to add improved IMAP capabilities in an IMAP client directly running on BlackBerry, either with or without RIM involvement.

(Note: RIM, as always, is very security conscious. That's why it's nearly impossible to write a Blackberry virus because of all the safeguards against modifying stuff on BlackBerry without RIM first looking at your source code and then cryptographically signing it so that it works. That's why signing is necessary. But fortunately, signing is only needed for certain API's. The USA government is a major customer of BlackBerries. A rare Canadian victory in this day and age, with them being the most reliable communication devices in events of 911 and florida hurricanes)
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Old 10-01-2004, 01:29 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I would be happy with a wireless reconsile and sync over BBerry to IMAP via BWC.

That would be great!

But they don't seem to get that for whatever reason. Ultimately nobody cares what protocol is used for email. POP, IMAP, it doesn't matter. It matters to nerds like me (us?) because we know what the difference is, but there are people out there using Yahoo! email and think it rocks!
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Old 10-01-2004, 01:30 PM   #28 (permalink)
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...what's funny is that a lot of people are getting the new BlackBerrys that are NOT as usable in natural disasters as my old mobitex ones are!
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Old 10-01-2004, 01:32 PM   #29 (permalink)
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One word: Profit.

RIM needs to be a profitable company that keeps the big customers happy. Like Fortune 500 companies and the USA government. They will concentrate on the infrastructure needed by these companies. So if profit is what they are looking for, they "get it" amazingly well -- the stock has gone up about 1000% in a year.

However, if they want to increase market penetration among consumers and prosumers that have special needs like IMAP, they "don't get it" quite yet, as you may say. Fortunately, there's less and less barriers today for a third party to write an IMAP IDLE capable client (Without needing to be signed by RIM, thankfully!)
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Old 10-01-2004, 01:39 PM   #30 (permalink)
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sempai, true, some Mobitex networks have good footprints in the states. Mobitex has historically been more resistant to disasters.

But, here in the province of Ontario of Canada, there's a massive GSM850 network now -- I got 1000 kilometers of nonstop reception travelling from Ottawa->Quebec City and Ottawa->Niagara Falls on highways and trains. So if you travel from Niagara Falls to Quebec City, that's 1000 kilometers (about 600 mles).

In November 2003, the GSM 850 Mhz network was overlaid on top of the GSM 1900 Mhz network, considered a major reception-improving defining event by Rogers HowardForum members who reported 1 bars jumping to 4 and 5 bars in 2-level-underground garages, etc. The higher 2-watt transmitters of new GSM 850 Mhz BlackBerries is more powerful than the typical 0.8-watt TMobile 7230.

So in Ontario, GSM 850 Mhz mammothly blows away Mobitex 900 Mhz and the distance reach is the same, yet there's way more GSM850 capable towers than Mobitex towers now and there's now relatively good GPRS rural reception 2-3 hours outside major Southern Ontario cities. And since Rogers owns both Canadian Mobitex and GSM850, they are on the same towers. So I am able to make a direct comparision between GSM850 and Mobitex. No contest - GSM850 wins.

But in Chicago area, people say the Mobitex network is massive better than GSM. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case in Florida!

I have to wonder which network would survive best in a disaster in Ontario: Mobitex or GPRS... Will the GSM850 equipment crash and shutdown more quickly than the Mobitex equipment? Hope this never gets tested around here...

But my Mobitex blackberry worked very well for quite some time in the Great Blackout of 2003. There were brief difficulties at times though, but a lot less than cellphone users for sure! The 850 Mhz network didn't yet exist during The Great Blackout of 2003, so a fair comparision was not tested then.
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Old 10-01-2004, 01:41 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I lived in Washington DC and my partner lived in Manhattan on Sept 11.

Mobitex devices worked.

Nothing else did.

GSM BlackBerry's would have been just as useless as the mobile phones people were clutching to.
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Old 10-01-2004, 01:49 PM   #32 (permalink)
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No kidding. Mobitex performed spetacularly that day.

GSM infrastructure has massively improved in many areas though (Especially Canada). Although there were some spotty problems in the Florida hurricane disasters, a lot of GSM, iDEN and CDMA blackberries worked even though they couldn't make phone calls, because the Internet connection (GPRS/1X) was still up but that the voice circuits were down or overloaded. SMS and short data messages working when voice calls could not.

Mobitex probably performed better, though -- but for a change, the consensus wasn't exactly clear! So many reports of people being able to send messages from all kinds of BlackBerries. But all technologies (even Mobitex) had zero-reception problems in certain other parts of Florida, so it's harder to guess a clear winner.
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Old 10-01-2004, 03:01 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sempai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon
People find the BlackBerry email to be so good, they don't even bother installing third party email clients. So you rarely ever see reviews about third party email software. But they exist and work. The best ones are Reqwireless from www.reqwireless.com at this time.

I think your best choices are either:

(1) Easiest: Configuring your BWC to poll your IMAP server. You will get new messages every 15 minutes.

(2) Automatic forwarding a CC: to your BlackBerry push address, that's how I do it. My BlackBerry then acts like a great wireless email notifier. Whenever my BlackBerry vibrates, I know I have new email waiting for me, and I can look at its screen pager-style (message displayed right away SMS/pager style after pulling out of holster) or reply to the message from my desktop instead. And your BlackBerry vibrates within 4-10 seconds of somebody clicking SEND to your email address, no need to check email, it's already downloaded to your BlackBerry realtime.
I use my personal BlackBerry as email triage. I get a lot of messages. I have procmail echo things directly to my Bberry unless they're always junk or not interesting to me (determined by a cascade of procmail rules) and then it's all spam-proofed by spamassassin and TMDA.

So I have been freed from waiting for emails at home when I should be spending time working on other things, and I can do my email management "for real" on the computer later, where I have my fancy-pants storage and heirarchy all setup in my cyrus server.

Plus, during the day, I can use mutt to read my mail "for real" and manage things as I need to, and everything is nicely and neatly archived and worked on after being tagged.
You can SSH in and use Mutt on the BB?
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Old 10-01-2004, 03:04 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I can use SSH on the BlackBerry -- I use Idokorro MobileSSH for that, which supports VT100. It's an expensive but good SSH client, but I heard other people working on new cheaper SSH clients for late 2004 or early 2005. An open source SSH client already almost works on my BlackBerry, just have to wait until someone fixes it to work...

Others java phone software to try are TelnetFloyd, FloydSSH, and MuTelnet ... none of them work on my BlackBerry yet, but not sure about 7100. Well, MuTelnet displays the login, but I can't type any data. And FloydSSH doesn't install properly (someone successfully forced a manual install someone, but reported problems with sockets).

Idokorro, at $199, is mainly focussing on selling to other companies, but it is possible they will reprice Idokorro MobileSSH lower for more sales when Public MDS becomes widespread.
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Old 10-01-2004, 03:05 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sempai
...what's funny is that a lot of people are getting the new BlackBerrys that are NOT as usable in natural disasters as my old mobitex ones are!
Yout dont have high hopes for my 7100?
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Old 10-01-2004, 03:06 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon
One word: Profit.

RIM needs to be a profitable company that keeps the big customers happy. Like Fortune 500 companies and the USA government. They will concentrate on the infrastructure needed by these companies. So if profit is what they are looking for, they "get it" amazingly well -- the stock has gone up about 1000% in a year.

However, if they want to increase market penetration among consumers and prosumers that have special needs like IMAP, they "don't get it" quite yet, as you may say. Fortunately, there's less and less barriers today for a third party to write an IMAP IDLE capable client (Without needing to be signed by RIM, thankfully!)
For fortune 500 companies and the govt. They could easily allow Open Source for alternate message delivery through their mailbox API. That would not kill their sales, since the Fortune 500 are going to use MS Exchange anyhow.
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Old 10-01-2004, 03:12 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I have used SSH from the OTHER Bberry but I don't think it's useful for reading email. I would rather use a Hiptop for using SSH and pine/mutt.

But that's just me, don't be mad, Marky.

I have used PuTTY on Series60 and UIQ. Both were equally bad but usable in a fix. I suppose I'd like having a last resort SSH on my 7100, but I'll wait for BWC and 4.0 on T-Mobile because under no circumstances will I pay some guy in his mothers' basement for MDS/BES.
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Old 10-01-2004, 03:15 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sempai
I have used SSH from the OTHER Bberry but I don't think it's useful for reading email. I would rather use a Hiptop for using SSH and pine/mutt.

But that's just me, don't be mad, Marky.

I have used PuTTY on Series60 and UIQ. Both were equally bad but usable in a fix. I suppose I'd like having a last resort SSH on my 7100, but I'll wait for BWC and 4.0 on T-Mobile because under no circumstances will I pay some guy in his mothers' basement for MDS/BES.
I thought I heard you say that you use Mutt to read or look over all your mail, while your important (scanned) messages get sent to your BB. I assumed you were using Mutt on the BB.

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Old 10-01-2004, 03:24 PM   #39 (permalink)
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There's a wider selection of telnet clients on a Treo. The lack of cursor pad on BlackBerry makes editing emails much harder. However, a well-designed telnet/SSH client with proper chunk-buffering, should perform very well on the BlackBerry. I've written color ANSI code since 1991, so I can make a very spiffy VT100 compatible client, if I had the time....or if a local company like Idokorro wants my help! :D

Idokorro is good in that it stays connected reliably even on a moving train and car, resisting disconnections. It has its own deficiencies they are keeping for the $995 server. But I also run a copy of 'screen' just in case, for resuming interrupted sessions.

Even though I don't yet have J2ME programming experience, I have had lots of experience in optimized chunk-buffering algorithms on high-latency networks, and I can make it behave more intuitively; I can make the thumbwheel behave like a cursor key like it really should; so that editing is much easier in a BlackBerry telnet software. (IMHO, backscroll should be a menu feature, not a scrollwheel feature -- that should be kept for cursor movement).

I bet can easily write a really good BlackBerry telnet client, if someone paid me though. :D
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Old 10-01-2004, 03:28 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datafirm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sempai
...what's funny is that a lot of people are getting the new BlackBerrys that are NOT as usable in natural disasters as my old mobitex ones are!
Yout dont have high hopes for my 7100?
No, absolutely not.

In the United States we do not have an adequete telecommunications infrastructure. We are spectrum-poor and unable to meet demands in some markets.

DC and NYC are large markets. They are spectrum-poor overtaxed overworked and way over capacity for them to function in a disaster.

AT&T Wireless on Sept 10, 2001 was giving me network busy at 6:00PM on the capital beltway. It hasn't gotten a whole lot better aside from now using Cingular in some spots and hopefully being able to sustain the usual call volume.

Any time a natural disaster or unnatural disaster occurs - or even anything newsworthy, everyone freaks out and grabs spectrum via mobile phones.

This isn't limited to the US of course - I think KDDI, AU or NTT DoCoMo in Japan will boot entire banks of calls when a diaster comes, and only allow text messaging to work to conserve radio spectrum and allow people to get messages sent.

The old school BlackBerry devices, sans-phone sans-speaker with the triple-digit model numbers are the only thing worth a damn in DC when planes were crashing into buildings. I have zero confidence that AT&T Wireless, Cingular, Verizon, SprintPCS, T-Mobile USA, or any of the small shops have managed to figure out a way to make things that much better yet. The reason it is so difficult is because not that these operators are all incompetent, but because we have an authoritarian dictatorship in the FCC that plays games with technology and markets with the kind of agility often seen in people suffering from muscular disorders.

Add to this that AT&T Wireless, in their wisdom, deployed WCDMA/UMTS on the 1900Mhz spectrum band, and witness the idiocy first hand while you watch even FEWER people able to use GSM1900 in markets with WCDMA because it takes more timeslots to accomodate them. This is another instance where it would have been nice to follow everone else and stick it on 2100 so that we could use cool things from Europe like that sexy Z1010.
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